Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[nate33]

I like the idea of going after WCS, but he has been awful so far this year so I'd be looking to buy low. ...

Whereas Garrett Temple has been terrific. Another fine GM move....

Well, he has been about the same as last year, which is pretty solid. His efficiency is up just a bit over last year, but that's probably due to him playing exclusively against opposing backups.

He does seem like one of the rare contracts of last offseason that doesn't seem like an egregious overpay.

[payitforward]

I like the idea of going after WCS, but he has been awful so far this year so I'd be looking to buy low. ...

Whereas Garrett Temple has been terrific. Another fine GM move....

Well, he has been about the same as last year, which is pretty solid. His efficiency is up just a bit over last year, but that's probably due to him playing exclusively against opposing backups.

He does seem like one of the rare contracts of last offseason that doesn't seem like an egregious overpay.

2pt, 3pt & FT %s are all at career highs. Defensive & offensive rebounding both up from last year. Fouls down. Assists up. Turnovers are slightly up, but so are steals. Guy is killing it this year -- and I'm happy for him as I'm sure we all are.

I'm sure you're right that playing against backups helps a lot -- yet, Temple is also up from two years ago (and every previous season) when that's all he played against. Big time success story is Garrett Temple. And a feel-good story too.

[nate33]

Whereas Garrett Temple has been terrific. Another fine GM move....

Well, he has been about the same as last year, which is pretty solid. His efficiency is up just a bit over last year, but that's probably due to him playing exclusively against opposing backups.

He does seem like one of the rare contracts of last offseason that doesn't seem like an egregious overpay.

2pt, 3pt & FT %s are all at career highs. Defensive & offensive rebounding both up from last year. Fouls down. Assists up. Turnovers are slightly up, but so are steals. Guy is killing it this year -- and I'm happy for him as I'm sure we all are.

I'm sure you're right that playing against backups helps a lot -- yet, Temple is also up from two years ago (and every previous season) when that's all he played against. Big time success story is Garrett Temple. And a feel-good story too.

In your favorite metric, WS/48, he has risen from .066 to .073. His PER is up marginally from 9.3 to 11.8. When you factor that he is playing against backups, I'd say his overall improvement has been marginal. I'm not hating. Like you, I'm in the Garrett Temple fan club. I just didn't agree with your implication that he was having some kind of break out year.

If you had asked me this offseason to predict how he would play this year as a backup, I probably would have guessed that he would show a modest uptick in WS/48 and PER due to him no longer starting. That's exactly what he has done.

[deneem4]

I like the idea of going after WCS, but he has been awful so far this year so I'd be looking to buy low. I'm not thrilled about trading a potential top 8 pick for him. I don't really have any comments on the rest of the trade because it's so complicated and I don't know if all those other teams would go for it. But, the general premise is fine. If we acquire WCS, we should trade Gortat for young-ish depth.

Wcs is the prototype big u want next to wall...lot of energy and athleticism...
Leonard brings capable stretch 5 shooting which would mesh well with a healthy mahinmi...

Vonleh and cassipi gets us some real bench depth

Wall/sato/burke
Beal/oubre/thronton
Porter/cassipi/
Morris/leornard/vonleh
Wcs/mahimi/

That's a good mix we can go shooting with Cassipi at 4 and leornard at 5
Big with wall beal morris vonleh and Mahinmi

It just gives us a more versatile roster while keeping our c pieces nd getting younger,
Leornard and cassipi if they play to norm will be the best shooting bigs wall has every had

[Dat2U]

Well, he has been about the same as last year, which is pretty solid. His efficiency is up just a bit over last year, but that's probably due to him playing exclusively against opposing backups.

He does seem like one of the rare contracts of last offseason that doesn't seem like an egregious overpay.

2pt, 3pt & FT %s are all at career highs. Defensive & offensive rebounding both up from last year. Fouls down. Assists up. Turnovers are slightly up, but so are steals. Guy is killing it this year -- and I'm happy for him as I'm sure we all are.

I'm sure you're right that playing against backups helps a lot -- yet, Temple is also up from two years ago (and every previous season) when that's all he played against. Big time success story is Garrett Temple. And a feel-good story too.

In your favorite metric, WS/48, he has risen from .066 to .073. His PER is up marginally from 9.3 to 11.8. When you factor that he is playing against backups, I'd say his overall improvement has been marginal. I'm not hating. Like you, I'm in the Garrett Temple fan club. I just didn't agree with your implication that he was having some kind of break out year.

If you had asked me this offseason to predict how he would play this year as a backup, I probably would have guessed that he would show a modest uptick in WS/48 and PER due to him no longer starting. That's exactly what he has done.

If we are able somehow to swing a deal involving Beal for Cousins, I'd try my darnedest to get Temple back in the deal.

[Dat2U]

I like the idea of going after WCS, but he has been awful so far this year so I'd be looking to buy low. I'm not thrilled about trading a potential top 8 pick for him. I don't really have any comments on the rest of the trade because it's so complicated and I don't know if all those other teams would go for it. But, the general premise is fine. If we acquire WCS, we should trade Gortat for young-ish depth.

Wcs is the prototype big u want next to wall...lot of energy and athleticism...
Leonard brings capable stretch 5 shooting which would mesh well with a healthy mahinmi...

Vonleh and cassipi gets us some real bench depth

Wall/sato/burke
Beal/oubre/thronton
Porter/cassipi/
Morris/leornard/vonleh
Wcs/mahimi/

That's a good mix we can go shooting with Cassipi at 4 and leornard at 5
Big with wall beal morris vonleh and Mahinmi

It just gives us a more versatile roster while keeping our c pieces nd getting younger,
Leornard and cassipi if they play to norm will be the best shooting bigs wall has every had

1. WCS in place of Gortat makes us worse. Meaning the pick you just gave up was even more valuable.
2. Meyers Leonard is a bad player on a horrific contract.
3. Noah Vonleh looks like a complete bust.
4. Oubre in no shape or form is capable of playing the SG position. Hell, his skills right now are questionable at SF.

All in all it's a lot of mediocre pieces and slop coming back our way. This doesn't make us better, it just makes us more assured of being a lottery team without the benefit of actually having a lottery pick.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I like the idea of going after WCS, but he has been awful so far this year so I'd be looking to buy low. ...

Whereas Garrett Temple has been terrific. Another fine GM move....

If the Wizards had Temple, Dudley, and Nene instead of Smith, Burke & Nicholson; their record would be at least two or three games better.

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

[Meliorus]

Read that Wizards had some interest in Archie Goodwin. Would be an upgrade over Thornton. I'm interested in getting a couple Nuggets players, especially Wilson Chandler. Think he could backup the 3 and 4.

[deneem4]

I like the idea of going after WCS, but he has been awful so far this year so I'd be looking to buy low. I'm not thrilled about trading a potential top 8 pick for him. I don't really have any comments on the rest of the trade because it's so complicated and I don't know if all those other teams would go for it. But, the general premise is fine. If we acquire WCS, we should trade Gortat for young-ish depth.

Wcs is the prototype big u want next to wall...lot of energy and athleticism...
Leonard brings capable stretch 5 shooting which would mesh well with a healthy mahinmi...

Vonleh and cassipi gets us some real bench depth

Wall/sato/burke
Beal/oubre/thronton
Porter/cassipi/
Morris/leornard/vonleh
Wcs/mahimi/

That's a good mix we can go shooting with Cassipi at 4 and leornard at 5
Big with wall beal morris vonleh and Mahinmi

It just gives us a more versatile roster while keeping our c pieces nd getting younger,
Leornard and cassipi if they play to norm will be the best shooting bigs wall has every had

1. WCS in place of Gortat makes us worse. Meaning the pick you just gave up was even more valuable.
2. Meyers Leonard is a bad player on a horrific contract.
3. Noah Vonleh looks like a complete bust.
4. Oubre in no shape or form is capable of playing the SG position. Hell, his skills right now are questionable at SF.

All in all it's a lot of mediocre pieces and slop coming back our way. This doesn't make us better, it just makes us more assured of being a lottery team without the benefit of actually having a lottery pick.

1. Wcs was great last year before this dumb offseason by the kings, his stats prove it, remember he plays for the kings so I don't think he'll be that much of a downgrade.

2. Leornard is a good stretch 5 who makes 3 mil more than Nicholson who is unplayable right now...I'll are the 37% 3pt shooter who is younger as well

3.Vonleh hasn't been that good but as a 4th big il rather play him then Smith..

[gambitx777]

Read that Wizards had some interest in Archie Goodwin. Would be an upgrade over Thornton. I'm interested in getting a couple Nuggets players, especially Wilson Chandler. Think he could backup the 3 and 4.

Well if Sheldon can't get minutes how will goodwin? I mean unless we are going to use him as a PG more than a SG I mean who gets cut,
If its Thornton/house/burke/smith (stretch or buy out) Then im all for it. but if we cut sheldon for goodwin its not a good move. But sheldon is better, IMO, goodwin has his problems. but having a 23 year old good defender and letting him duke it out with sheldon for playing time to me is better than just leaving thornton in there.

[WizarDynasty]

Read that Wizards had some interest in Archie Goodwin. Would be an upgrade over Thornton. I'm interested in getting a couple Nuggets players, especially Wilson Chandler. Think he could backup the 3 and 4.

Well if Sheldon can't get minutes how will goodwin? I mean unless we are going to use him as a PG more than a SG I mean who gets cut,
If its Thornton/house/burke/smith (stretch or buy out) Then im all for it. but if we cut sheldon for goodwin its not a good move. But sheldon is better, IMO, goodwin has his problems. but having a 23 year old good defender and letting him duke it out with sheldon for playing time to me is better than just leaving thornton in there.

I want nothing to do with athletic point guards who haven't proven they can shoot .40 from behind the line and have at least 100 three made against nba level defense in one season. Better off going after a guy like patty mills as your back up point guard and over paying him slightly. YOu need a guy who can play defense and has proven he can hit at least 100 three pointers against nba defense at a high percentage. that is very very hard to find especially for your back up point guard.

finding an above average defending point guard who can also shoot a high volume of threes at 40 percent is almost impossible to find for your back up point guard. trey burke can shoot but is a horrible defender. Very hard to find a lockdown defender at point guard who can shoot high volume threes at high percentage.

[TGW]

I've been playing around with a trade, but I'm not sure how folks would feel about it. Essentially it's Porter and either one of Smith/Nicholson for MKG and Lamb.

We'd downgrade from Porter to MKG for sure, but the upgrade from Smith/Nicholson to Lamb would be a huge one. In addition, Lamb/MKG are on team friendly deals, while Otto is due for a huge contract. This trade accomplishes two things: keeping costs down (getting rid of a bad contact and avoiding the new huge contract for Otto) and upgrading the bench while getting a starter back in return. Indeed the shooting and floor spacing would suck, but I think our defense and talent level goes up.

[Dark Faze]

crazy how every new acquisition has been complete trash--including Mahinmi. Yes he's injured, but he's got a history of this.

[Dark Faze]

I've been playing around with a trade, but I'm not sure how folks would feel about it. Essentially it's Porter and either one of Smith/Nicholson for MKG and Lamb.

We'd downgrade from Porter to MKG for sure, but the upgrade from Smith/Nicholson to Lamb would be a huge one. In addition, Lamb/MKG are on team friendly deals, while Otto is due for a huge contract. This trade accomplishes two things: keeping costs down (getting rid of a bad contact and avoiding the new huge contract for Otto) and upgrading the bench while getting a starter back in return. Indeed the shooting and floor spacing would suck, but I think our defense and talent level goes up.

This is kind of horrific. You can't depend on MKG at all to stay on the court and Lamb doesn't have a history of consistency.

[Illmatic12]

I've been playing around with a trade, but I'm not sure how folks would feel about it. Essentially it's Porter and either one of Smith/Nicholson for MKG and Lamb.

We'd downgrade from Porter to MKG for sure, but the upgrade from Smith/Nicholson to Lamb would be a huge one. In addition, Lamb/MKG are on team friendly deals, while Otto is due for a huge contract. This trade accomplishes two things: keeping costs down (getting rid of a bad contact and avoiding the new huge contract for Otto) and upgrading the bench while getting a starter back in return. Indeed the shooting and floor spacing would suck, but I think our defense and talent level goes up.

Can't play MKG and Wall together in crunchtime.

At this point, unless something better presents itself I would keep Otto and hope he bulks up enough to play PF fulltime. If he can transition to the PF position these next few years, he's gonna be really valuable.. much moreso than he is at SF

But the idea of having to match a max contract for Otto is definitely scary

[payitforward]

Well, he has been about the same as last year, which is pretty solid.....

...Guy is killing it this year -- and I'm happy for him as I'm sure we all are. ...Big time success story is Garrett Temple. And a feel-good story too.

In your favorite metric, WS/48, he has risen from .066 to .073. His PER is up marginally from 9.3 to 11.8. When you factor that he is playing against backups, I'd say his overall improvement has been marginal. I'm not hating. Like you, I'm in the Garrett Temple fan club.

Really my only interest in how to view his season is expressed in the bolded section above. I'm just happy to see a guy like him do well. We agree in this, obviously.

Two more things to point at and then maybe we can let it go. First about his PER: a) no one has a high PER unless he shoots a lot wch Temple doesn't do, for which reason it's not a very helpful metric, but that said, b) in a straight numerical roll up like PER, a jump from 9.3 - 11.8 -- 27% -- is a lot!

Second, about WS/48 -- I think that's a win shares roll up of some kind. I have no idea how it's calculated and have never paid it any attention. I do think WS40 is pretty good -- it's an improved version of EFF and an improvement on PER as well (because it doesn't reward low percentage shooting, which PER does). WS40 is only really useful, however, if you compare players at the same position. Garrett's WS40 is up 45% this year over last. He played 24+ minutes/game w/ us last year and is playing 21+ minutes/game this year. Not a huge difference, but still it's certainly the case that he played vs. starters more last year than this. It's also still a pretty small sample we're working with.

In any case, Temple's doing well -- on the court, financially, & we hope in all other ways as well! He's worked hard and deserves it.

[nate33]

I've been playing around with a trade, but I'm not sure how folks would feel about it. Essentially it's Porter and either one of Smith/Nicholson for MKG and Lamb.

We'd downgrade from Porter to MKG for sure, but the upgrade from Smith/Nicholson to Lamb would be a huge one. In addition, Lamb/MKG are on team friendly deals, while Otto is due for a huge contract. This trade accomplishes two things: keeping costs down (getting rid of a bad contact and avoiding the new huge contract for Otto) and upgrading the bench while getting a starter back in return. Indeed the shooting and floor spacing would suck, but I think our defense and talent level goes up.

F**k Ted Leonsis! I don't want to keep costs down. Let him exceed the cap and resign Porter.

Seriously, I don't like this deal much at all. I consider Porter pretty damn close to untouchable. The guy just keeps getting better and better. And by better, I mean he gets better at EVERYTHING. He has improved his points, rebounds, steals, blocks, turnovers, 2P%, 3P% and FT% in each of the last 2 seasons.

[payitforward]

I've been playing around with a trade, but I'm not sure how folks would feel about it. Essentially it's Porter and either one of Smith/Nicholson for MKG and Lamb.

We'd downgrade from Porter to MKG for sure, but the upgrade from Smith/Nicholson to Lamb would be a huge one. In addition, Lamb/MKG are on team friendly deals, while Otto is due for a huge contract. This trade accomplishes two things: keeping costs down (getting rid of a bad contact and avoiding the new huge contract for Otto) and upgrading the bench while getting a starter back in return. Indeed the shooting and floor spacing would suck, but I think our defense and talent level goes up.

Not all that much of a downgrade from Porter to MK-G, who is a much better player than people think (guys who don't score a lot get under-estimated all the time).

Lamb's only played 86 minutes this year, so he must be injured? Anyway, Charlotte wouldn't go for this deal. What problem does it solve for them? And I don't want to do it anyway....

[payitforward]

I've been playing around with a trade, but I'm not sure how folks would feel about it. Essentially it's Porter and either one of Smith/Nicholson for MKG and Lamb.

We'd downgrade from Porter to MKG for sure, but the upgrade from Smith/Nicholson to Lamb would be a huge one. In addition, Lamb/MKG are on team friendly deals, while Otto is due for a huge contract. This trade accomplishes two things: keeping costs down (getting rid of a bad contact and avoiding the new huge contract for Otto) and upgrading the bench while getting a starter back in return. Indeed the shooting and floor spacing would suck, but I think our defense and talent level goes up.

F**k Ted Leonsis! I don't want to keep costs down. Let him exceed the cap and resign Porter.

Seriously, I don't like this deal much at all. I consider Porter pretty damn close to untouchable. The guy just keeps getting better and better. And by better, I mean he gets better at EVERYTHING. He has improved his points, rebounds, steals, blocks, turnovers, 2P%, 3P% and FT% in each of the last 2 seasons.

Agree totally. But... your post makes me think -- what if our brain dead FO isn't smart enough to re-sign Porter? And that would be no surprise at all! Yikes.... In that case, one could support this trade as a fan just to make sure we don't lose Porter for nothing.

Hard hard hard to be a Wizards fan.

[nate33]

Not all that much of a downgrade from Porter to MK-G, who is a much better player than people think (guys who don't score a lot get under-estimated all the time).

I avoid like the plague wings who can't shoot. Yes, they may still be able to put up individual numbers that make their statistical metrics look good, but they are imposing lots of demands on their teammates to compensate for their inability to space the floor.

We don't have the personnel to accommodate MKG in our starting lineup because our C can't shoot at all and our PG and PF are barely serviceable as 3-point shooters. MKG has the luxury of being surrounded by deadeye shooters like Walker and Bellineli, plus a few more good shooters like Williams, Batum and Kaminsky.