Political Roundtable Part XI

[nate33]

The flag burning issue has been a regular go-to for conservative politicians for 20 years now. It's an easy rhetorical win for conservatives. I can't believe anybody is making a big deal out of this.

Nate, to be fair I haven't seen one single thing Trump has uttered that you think is a big deal.

I mean you pretty much have a rationale for everything he's said since he entered the race.

Wow, imprisonment and punishment for burning a "symbol". Not too far off from cutting off heads for speaking ill of Mohammad. I'm sure nate thinks it's no big deal.

I'm sure you were just as outraged in 2005 when Clinton proposed the same thing:



Oops!

[AFM]

Dad, liberals misread Flag as what some guys call homosexuals!

[nate33]

Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZNOV. 29, 2016

From the earliest days of his campaign, Donald J. Trump made keeping manufacturing jobs in the United States his signature economic issue, and the decision by Carrier, the big air-conditioner company, to move 2,000 of them from Indiana to Mexico was a tailor-made talking point for him on the stump.

On Thursday, Mr. Trump and Mike Pence, Indiana’s governor and the vice-president elect, plan to appear at Carrier’s Indianapolis plant to announce they’ve struck a deal with the company to keep roughly half of the jobs in the state, according to officials with the transition team as well as Carrier.

Mr. Trump will be hard-pressed to alter the economic forces that have hammered the Rust Belt for decades, but forcing Carrier and its parent company, United Technologies, to reverse course is a powerful tactical strike that will rally his base even before he takes office.

Link

[JWizmentality]

Nate, to be fair I haven't seen one single thing Trump has uttered that you think is a big deal.

I mean you pretty much have a rationale for everything he's said since he entered the race.

Wow, imprisonment and punishment for burning a "symbol". Not too far off from cutting off heads for speaking ill of Mohammad. I'm sure nate thinks it's no big deal.

I'm sure you were just as outraged in 2005 when Clinton proposed the same thing:



Oops!

Do you have anything else other than "Well Clinton did it." Didn't think so. It was a stupid then and never got traction, and its dangerous now with an idiot in office.

Try Again.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

Family friend in Ohio who's a successful real estate guy who voted Trump is PISSED with this pick and the other cabinet picks.

I'm thinking what did you expect?

[Zonkerbl]

Nate, to be fair I haven't seen one single thing Trump has uttered that you think is a big deal.

I mean you pretty much have a rationale for everything he's said since he entered the race.

Wow, imprisonment and punishment for burning a "symbol". Not too far off from cutting off heads for speaking ill of Mohammad. I'm sure nate thinks it's no big deal.

I'm sure you were just as outraged in 2005 when Clinton proposed the same thing:

Nate, Hillary did not propose revoking citizenship. Come on man, do you really think we're that dumb?

[Zonkerbl]

How do you burn a flag for purposes of intimidation and/or terrorism? Try to burn someone to death with it?

[nate33]

Wow, imprisonment and punishment for burning a "symbol". Not too far off from cutting off heads for speaking ill of Mohammad. I'm sure nate thinks it's no big deal.

I'm sure you were just as outraged in 2005 when Clinton proposed the same thing:

Nate, Hillary did not propose revoking citizenship. Come on man, do you really think we're that dumb?

I agree that revoking citizenship is extreme. I even noted that Trump probably intentionally threw it in as a means of bringing attention to his tweet and making the troll more effective. But JWiz didn't even bring that up. He was outraged by the free speech implications of banning flag burning.

FWIW, there is precedent for revoking citizenship of naturalized citizens:

http://immigration.findlaw.com/citizenship/can-your-u-s-citizenship-be-revoked-.html

Membership in Subversive Groups: Your citizenship may be revoked if the U.S. government can prove that you joined a subversive organization within five years of becoming a naturalized citizen. Membership in such organizations is considered a violation of the oath of U.S. allegiance. Examples include the Nazi Party and Al Qaeda

[dckingsfan]

Well that was inexpensive:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-poised-to-forgive-108-billion-in-student-debt-2016-11-30

[Zonkerbl]

Yeah, so casually associating people who are exercising their rights to free speech with Communism, Nazis, and Al Qaeda helps your argument how? Ask yourself this question, does this take our country closer to ur-fascism?

Trump may be a crazy genius, or maybe he's just crazy. I lived with a crazy, highly functioning narcissist for 12 years and despite being absolutely **** crazy she's managed to convince a lot of people she's sane. Doesn't make her any less crazy, just a really scary kind of crazy, where you have no idea what she wants or will do and no one around you believes you when you say what a horrible person she is.

Trump reminds me of her a lot. I don't think he's some sort of political genius, I think our country is full of hateful and spiteful bullies and jocks who can't take the fact that their peak success in life happened in high school, and, being a hateful and spiteful bully, Trump represents this demographic extremely well.

I had hoped that we were better than that but I guess you should never overestimate America's capacity to disappoint.

[dckingsfan]

Interesting - I was sure that the Ds would have had the majority of votes here too. I wonder the reason? The House is very unpopular at this time.

Republicans captured the majority of the "popular vote" for the House on Election Day, collecting about 56.3 million votes while Democrats got about 53.2 million, according to USA TODAY calculations. With a few races still undecided, Republicans so far hold a 239-193 majority for the next Congress.

[TGW]

Read on Twitter

Family friend in Ohio who's a successful real estate guy who voted Trump is PISSED with this pick and the other cabinet picks.

I'm thinking what did you expect?

His cabinet is literally a bunch of yes men, financiers, and family members. It's really a sight to behold.

[dckingsfan]

I had hoped that we were better than that but I guess you should never overestimate America's capacity to disappoint.

I think that middle America was just not buying what the Ds were selling for this presidential election. I think the disappointment is in who we ran and how she ran her campaign.

I am less disappointed with America as I am with the Ds and their inflexibility in their messaging. I think those on the east and west coasts have a visceral disdain for those in the middle of the country and it shows.

What I am interested in is: Will the Ds messaging change? Or will they go harder left and take a smaller and smaller geographic area.

Obama and his administration had a chance to broaden the base and largely did not. Same with Hillary. So far, no new D leadership has immerged that will increase the tent. It will be a fascinating four years. I think the Ds are hoping for a Trump failure vs. looking really hard in the mirror.

[dckingsfan]

Read on Twitter

Family friend in Ohio who's a successful real estate guy who voted Trump is PISSED with this pick and the other cabinet picks.

I'm thinking what did you expect?

His cabinet is literally a bunch of yes men, financiers, and family members. It's really a sight to behold.

I like his appointments for the Education Secretary, Betsy DeVos, I think she could actually help. I like Elaine Chao. I like Tom Price. I like Nikki Haley.

Steven Mnuchin, Wilbur Ross, Ben Carson, Mike Pompeo, Jeff Sessions, Michael Flynn, Reince Priebus puzzle me as a whole.

[Zonkerbl]

How can you look at the way Trump comports himself and say his presidency will be anything but a failure?

It's ridiculous to blame Trump's rise on the D's. If our country had a shred of decency a mangy goat would have won by 10 points. Hillary abandoned Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, ok. What about Ohio, where she campaigned extensively and still lost? How is that "abandonment"? What about Florida? North Carolina? These states have no one but themselves to blame for handing a full blown narcissist the presidency.

The Dems won two presidencies with a charismatic, competent leader and a forward looking vision of the future full of love and respect for all human beings. There's no reason to set that aside, maybe just pick a candidate who is more easily associated with that.

If America deserves a Democratic president then we'll get one. If we're all going to act like a bunch of 13 year old internet trolls we'll get a candidate that acts like one.

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

Family friend in Ohio who's a successful real estate guy who voted Trump is PISSED with this pick and the other cabinet picks.

I'm thinking what did you expect?

His cabinet is literally a bunch of yes men, financiers, and family members. It's really a sight to behold.

That's just nonsense. I don't expect you to like Trump's cabinet, but to call it a bunch of yes men is just wrong. His top advisors are Priebus and Bannon, one is a conventional conservative insider and the other is a populist/nationalist outsider. That looks to me like Trump is trying to get advisors from the entire range of the conservative spectrum, which is what wise leaders do.

Among cabinet officials named, he's got Sessions, who is in lockstep with Trump on immigration and corruption, the focus of his campaign. Of course that guy is going to agree with Trump. But he also has named Chao, who is a competent veteran administrator from the Bush administration (certainly not a friend of Trump). His HHS secretary is Tom Price, an orthopedic surgeon who is a long time ally of Paul Ryan, (again, no friend of Trump). His U.N. Ambassador, Nikki Haley, is another Trump critic.

His Commerce Secretary pick is Wilbur Ross, a 79-year-old who has made a long career out of resuscitating dying companies in the steel and coal business. Seems like a reasonable pick to me. (The age is important because he's old enough to give zero f**ks about who he pisses off.)

He is talking with many different people for Sec. of State, including one of his biggest rivals, Romney. Democrat Tulsi Gabbard may be in the running as well.

I'm not thrilled about his Treasury pick, but I'll withhold judgement for a while. It's tough to find experts in the field who don't also have ties to the banking industry. If we make that a disqualifier, then there isn't much to choose from.

[dckingsfan]

It's ridiculous to blame Trump's rise on the D's.

I am blaming Ds loss of the Senate, House and majority of the Governorships on the Ds. Do you not see that? Zonk are you in complete denial that their message is lost on so many? That isn't hyperbola - that is fact.

If you are saying that America is "stupid" because they don't like the D's message - then I don't know what to say.

If America deserves a Democratic president then we'll get one. If we're all going to act like a bunch of 13 year old internet trolls we'll get a candidate that acts like one.

If the Ds govern well and put forward solid candidates then they will earn the country back. They didn't. They lost. It is really that simple.

It is comments like this that make me wonder if the Ds can change tack.

[tontoz]

Half of college educated white women voted for Trump, in spite of his outrageous behavior with women, so clearly there is something about the Ds or Hillary specifically that turned people off.

[Wizardspride]

It's ridiculous to blame Trump's rise on the D's.

I am blaming Ds loss of the Senate, House and majority of the Governorships on the Ds. Do you not see that? Zonk are you in complete denial that their message is lost on so many? That isn't hyperbola - that is fact.

If you are saying that America is "stupid" because they don't like the D's message - then I don't know what to say.

If America deserves a Democratic president then we'll get one. If we're all going to act like a bunch of 13 year old internet trolls we'll get a candidate that acts like one.

If the Ds govern well and put forward solid candidates then they will earn the country back. They didn't. They lost. It is really that simple.

It is comments like this that make me wonder if the Ds can change tack.

Ok. You've mentioned this several times over the past few weeks and I'd like to know exactly how you'd like the Dems to change tack?

Specifics.

[Wizardspride]

Half of college educated women voted for Trump, in spite of his outrageous behavior with women, so clearly there is something about the Ds or Hillary specifically that turned people off.

I might be wrong but I think this was more a reflection of Hillary herself than on the Democratic Party as a whole.

A Joe Biden for example, wipes the floor with Trump imo.

He holds on to the Obama coalition as well as appealing to the working class white voters.