The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0)

[Kolkmania]

I can't believe the overvaluing and overpaying talk of Noel that's going on in this thread. Only 21 players currently in the league make at least 20 mil or more. I can assure you that Nerlens Noel is nowhere near a top 20 player in this league. Stop this nonsense, please.

I would love to get him on the team, but my concerns are his injuries. He will make us a lot better if healthy, but we'd still need more help competing with Cleveland. Philly should have traded him before the season started, before he announced having this procedure that's kept him out all year. Philly has no choice but to take a low offer for him now. I doubt he'll ever suit up for them again, even when healthy.

Referring to the number of 20+ million dollar contracts is not representative since the salary cap increased, only a few high potential players had the opportunity to earn new big contracts. Stephen Curry is making 12 million dollars, does that tell you he's not one of the best players in the league?

Nerlens Noel is not a top 20 player in the league, however he is quite unique defensively. What center could block and steal a ball at his rate during his rookie and shophomore years combined with excellent DBPM? Only David Robinson could and he was much older. Offensively his role is probably limited as a roller to the rim, but I do think he's a willing screen setter, has high motor and has potential as a passer from the high post. Some teams are going to take a risk with him, for example if I were Brooklyn's GM I would deal Lopez at some point for picks and try to sign Nerlens Noel.

One aspect that people underestimate is Nerlens' competitiveness which could be the spark to fall in love for the current Celtics roster. Combine that with his origin from Massachusetts and perhaps he's willing to take a discount to play competitive basketball for his first time in his NBA career. If he's not, I don't think he's worth the risk of losing him in the offseason.

[CelticsLV]

Problem for us might be Nets. They have more than enough money to throw at FAs. They could easily offer max to Noel or Hayward, or if they clear Lopez's salary they could afford both. Last year they got unlucky because their targets were restricted agents.

[BakersDozen]

Do we even know when Noel will be back on the court?


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[Asian Celtic]

I vote for this to be stickied

[Banks2Pierce]

IT over Wall shouts are reminding me of the arguments that Rondo was on the same level or close to Chris Paul back in the day.

[FlatearthZorro]

IT over Wall shouts are reminding me of the arguments that Rondo was on the same level or close to Chris Paul back in the day.

I'm not super sold on Wall. He's been in the league for a while and I really question his drive, attitude. As talented as he is, his most successful season was due to old PP hitting a bunch of ridiculous shots(and the Wizards are still trash this year).

[Celts17Pride]

IT over Wall shouts are reminding me of the arguments that Rondo was on the same level or close to Chris Paul back in the day.

The only thing Wall and Paul have in common is they both have 4 letters in their last name. That's it. Wall and Beal are the most overrated players in the NBA and only get stats because of their high usage rate. Not winning players in my opinion.

[Homerclease]

Problem for us might be Nets. They have more than enough money to throw at FAs. They could easily offer max to Noel or Hayward, or if they clear Lopez's salary they could afford both. Last year they got unlucky because their targets were restricted agents.

This is true but finding someone to take their money may be a struggle, why would Hayward leave Utah for them? I can't think of a good reason to be frank but anything can happen. They can certainly drive up the price on any free agent though that's for sure

[Curmudgeon]

I can't believe the overvaluing and overpaying talk of Noel that's going on in this thread. Only 21 players currently in the league make at least 20 mil or more. I can assure you that Nerlens Noel is nowhere near a top 20 player in this league. Stop this nonsense, please.

Next July you are competing with 29 other teams. It only takes one dumb GM to make an over-market offer, and there goes Noel.

Evan Turner is getting $17.5M a year, think about that.

As for Noel vs Z-bo, one of them can score and the other can't. I prefer the guy who can score.

[Edug27]

Bradley is the player to move. He has the most trade value, and he's due a monster contract in a year. I love him, but if a player were available that Danny wanted, Avery + Nets pick is the package to get it done. (Throw in Rozier, Zeller and Jerebko for fillers) Who is that player ... or does he even exist this year? Who knows. Probably not.

IT / Smart
____ / Jaylen
Crowder / Green
Horford / KO
____ / ____

[CelticsLV]

Problem for us might be Nets. They have more than enough money to throw at FAs. They could easily offer max to Noel or Hayward, or if they clear Lopez's salary they could afford both. Last year they got unlucky because their targets were restricted agents.

This is true but finding someone to take their money may be a struggle, why would Hayward leave Utah for them? I can't think of a good reason to be frank but anything can happen. They can certainly drive up the price on any free agent though that's for sure

This is what i mean. FAs could use Nets as bargaining chip. After all, their bids to Johnson and Crabbe forced Heat and Blazers to overmatch. Crabbe got ridiculous deal. Their main targets will be young players like Caldwell-Pope, Porter, Noel, Roberson, Olynyk, Hayward. They will force a lot of teams to hand out crazy deals.

[Fencer reregistered]

What center could block and steal a ball at his rate during his rookie and shophomore years combined with excellent DBPM? Only David Robinson could and he was much older.

Bill Russell comes to mind.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Yup Noel had Russel-esque potential physically. Doesn't have it mentally, won't get that great. But he's a unique talent- and given we saw Camby go from UMass to Toronto, getting a local talent would be neat.

[bbd24]

Bradley is the player to move. He has the most trade value, and he's due a monster contract in a year. I love him, but if a player were available that Danny wanted, Avery + Nets pick is the package to get it done. (Throw in Rozier, Zeller and Jerebko for fillers) Who is that player ... or does he even exist this year? Who knows. Probably not.

IT / Smart
____ / Jaylen
Crowder / Green
Horford / KO
____ / ____

It's gotta be a big to pair with Horford. Namely, Cousins.

17' first round pick, Brown, & Bradley for Cousins. Nobody beats that package. I want to keep Jaylen but I'll give him up if Cousins is coming.

[Bar Fight]

I've been wanting a Noel trade for months. He's a perfect fit for us and can be apart of our young core going forward. If we're gonna keep the Nets pick, we probably have to make room for a guard anyway so I wouldn't mind any of Bradley, Rozier, or Smart being moved (obviously not all of them). I would lean towards Bradley because he's got the most value and is the oldest with the least upside for the future. Love the guy, he's one of my favorite players on the team. But if we're not gonna win a title now, we gotta start building to the future. All this is null and void if we can pull off a blockbuster deal for a legit superstar.

[Bar Fight]

I think the lack of movement trade wise with Noel is due to the injury and time of year. When he comes back healthy, he'll be one of, if not the most, sought after guy on the trade market. There isn't many if any better 21 y/o big men in the entire league. Starting him over Amir, putting Horford at PF and imo we could make things interesting vs CLE.

He'd change the team dramatically on both ends. If he comes over and has that type of impact, you then have no problem paying a 22 y/o high upside defensive stud $20 million a year. Amir, JJ, and Zeller come off the books for I believe $25 million after this season. It might mean we can't get Hayward or Blake but tbh Noel solves our PF problem by putting Horford where he'd shine even more so the need for Blake diminishes and we still have Jae, Brown, and Yabusele so not sure Hayward fits either. By next season we'd hopefully have an improved Brown, Rozier, Yabusele, and Zizic along with BK17 as newcomers and I don't think anyone will be sad to see the others along with Mickey and Young, go.

I'm hoping Rozier will allow us to let IT or AB leave and the PG we take with BK17 replaces the other. Smart is cheap and continue to do the 6th man thing. We then get the BK18 and we follow that up with even more 1sts the next season. We should be golden Noel or not. But for this year, with Noel we'd be a very tough out.

The question is, who do we have that PHI would accept that we've be willing to part with, assuming they'll even deal with us? I've said it before, I think they'd do Smart for him straight up. While I would do that no problem, I'm guessing it's too much to give up for most of you due to him potentially only being a rental. But if it got us to the finals this season or reinforced in Noel and Danny's mind that they want to sign long term at an affordable price I'd say do it. I'd like to think they'd also take Jaylen Brown straight up. People would riot so I doubt it. But if it wasn't a rental, I'd do it in a heartbeat. It's harder to find big men like Noel who can defend than it is to find SF who can't shoot. But let's chalk that up as a no. Rozier and a non BK 1st seems to make a whole lot of sense because they do not currently have a PG. They can of course just take a better one in the draft with theirs or the Lakers 1st. But having Rozier gives them options. It might mean they don't HAVE to take a PG which might allow them to take Jackson or Giles.

So if I'm Danny I make sure to have Rozier getting major minutes. It serves to showcase him and to give us an indication whether he could take over for either AB or IT and even allow us to move Smart. So the question is will other teams offer more than Smart or IT and a non BK pick? I'm not so sure

I can't believe the overvaluing and overpaying talk of Noel that's going on in this thread. Only 21 players currently in the league make at least 20 mil or more. I can assure you that Nerlens Noel is nowhere near a top 20 player in this league. Stop this nonsense, please.

I would love to get him on the team, but my concerns are his injuries. He will make us a lot better if healthy, but we'd still need more help competing with Cleveland. Philly should have traded him before the season started, before he announced having this procedure that's kept him out all year. Philly has no choice but to take a low offer for him now. I doubt he'll ever suit up for them again, even when healthy.

The guy is an elite athlete at the center position and one of the top shotblockers in the game. Very good rebounder as well despite his lack of girth/strength. Young as hell too. Really a perfect fit for the team now and a valuable piece going forward. He plays for a **** team so people overlook his talent, but he was easily the number 1 pick heading into the 2013 draft had he not been hurt. I don't think it's overvaluing him at all to part ways with one of our three guards who have similar skillsets/roles on our team. Now obviously I wouldn't give up the Nets picks for him (or even IT/Horford), but he's definitely worth a package centered around one of those other guards.

And I would absolutely pay him that 20 mil too. This guy is young with a high ceiling. We paid a 32 year old Al Horford the max. The cap went up, so contracts like that will be the norm. Take a look at what Chandler Parsons just got paid.

[ddb]

IT over Wall shouts are reminding me of the arguments that Rondo was on the same level or close to Chris Paul back in the day.

I don't think so. Chris Paul was always an amazing, well rounded player. He was always and remains properly rated. He hasn't won a ring yet, but he is a hands down future hall of fame point guard. Rondo during his prime years with hall of famers around him fooled a lot of people. I wasn't one of them. I called for a Rondo for Curry deal (when Curry was injured) or a Rondo for Deron Williams (wouldn't have worked out) type deal way back when.
In the case of Wall vs IT. Wall is overrated and IT is underrated. IT because of his size will never get the credit he deserves. But at the end of the day I would trust IT with the game on the line over John Wall. And I just like IT as a player more then JWall.

[ddb]

Honest question here for the board. Is it finally time for Danny to simply pull the trigger on a Boogie Cousins deal? Please DO NOT respond with the same ole narrative about Boogies attitude, etc. We have already discussed that topic numerous times. Lets keep the conversation about whether a talent like Boogie is A. enough to get us a ring and B. worth the price etc

I have it on good record that Danny could absolutely land Boogie right now if he was willing to give up both BK's. So essentially what that means is we could land Boogie and probably even Casspi (for depth) without breaking up our core.

A deal would look something like this: Boogie/Casspi for Amir/Jaylen/Mickey both BK's.

The downside is we no longer have the BK's. But we must consider that we'd be very fortunate for ONE of Jaylen, BK17 swap, BK18 to EVENTUALLY develop into a DeMarcus Cousins. So there's that.
We must also consider how completely and utterly dominate a prime years Boogie could be in the Eastern Conference? IMO he would be an MVP candidate for the next 5 years in the East.
Another thing to consider....realistically is there a better option to trade for? Is Anthony Davis ever REALLY going to become available? And if so, what is the price? Is it worth the price it will take?
So we know he hasn't won yet. But we also know he's been in a bad situation in Sacto with a revolving door of teammates, coaches and front office execs. Doesn't help that the West has been very tough for many years.

This deal would leave us with the following:
IT-Bradley-Crowder-Horford-Cousins
Rozier-Smart-Casspi-Jonas-KO
Jackson-Young-Green-Zeller plus 1 open roster spot.

IT, Boogie, Bradley, Crowder are entering their prime years. Smart, Rozier will get better. Horford's game should age well so I'm confident we'll get a good contract out of him. KO, Jonas, Casspi sorta are what they are.. We must consider contracts moving forward as Boogie, IT, Bradley, Smart, KO call for new contracts. Can we also add a talented free agent after this deal? and How will Danny maneuver that?

Match-up wise against Cleveland. We have Kyrie VS IT. Good match up. Bradley/Smart/Rozier are there to slow down Kyrie. on the flip side, nobody on Cleveland can slow down Boogie. Maybe Tristian Thompson. It certainly will not be Kevin Love slowing Boogie/Horford down. So ultimately the series comes down to Crowder/Smart/Horford being able to neutralize LeBron...and coaching. It would be a great, great series. LeBron is getting older too. So even if they beat us once in the East. Even twice. I think by year 3 we are the cream of the crop in the East for 5 years or so.

I say go for it. Let's get Boogie to Boston. I'm game for this. After about a year of going back and forth on this....I'm ready. I just can't see Danny wasting a Horford contract on waiting for Jaylen and 2017 and 2018 rookies developing. I also think Boogie would behave and be awesome in a better situation

we are a plus 10-14 wins with this deal. We're already a 50 win team (most likely). This puts us in the 60's and potentially the #1 seed with home court throughout as well

[Curmudgeon]

No. I want a shot at Markelle Fultz this June (with someone like Josh Jackson or Jason Tatum as a consolation prize) and a shot at a 7 footer like Ayton or Bamba in the 2018 draft.

[Green89]

I can't believe the overvaluing and overpaying talk of Noel that's going on in this thread. Only 21 players currently in the league make at least 20 mil or more. I can assure you that Nerlens Noel is nowhere near a top 20 player in this league. Stop this nonsense, please.

Next July you are competing with 29 other teams. It only takes one dumb GM to make an over-market offer, and there goes Noel.

Evan Turner is getting $17.5M a year, think about that.

As for Noel vs Z-bo, one of them can score and the other can't. I prefer the guy who can score.

If anything, Turner's contract is going to scare GMs into avoiding going too high on non-star players.