The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0)

[reload141]

Basically, I think I'm playing chicken. I'm holding out to try to somehow retain one BRK pick as a small hedge (ideally '18), counting on Sac to continue to fail to make positive progress as the clock ticks on Boogie's contract. But, if they're about to pull the trigger and trade him to another team, I meet the asking price.

It truly is a game of chicken. Cousins IS the first or 2nd best big man in the game today. He and Anthony Davis. KAT's, Zinger are going to be special as well. I think people are underestimating how much better Cousins is this year VS last year with that added 3pt shot that he's making at a 40% clip now. He couldn't shoot it this well, but clearly worked on his range and overall game. He is DOMINATE. He's starting to put up 38/20/5 lines. His prime years are going to be scary. He needs out of Sacto and I truly believe that Boston is the best place for him. Good leadership, good structure. I think we can win a ring with Boogie.
Remember this. Kyrie couldn't win sh&t without LeBron. People thought he was this insanely talented kid that couldn't win. Look at him now making ridiculous shots in the finals on the biggest stage.
Boogie is just fine on the Olympic team. I think he would be just fine with Horford/IT/AB/Smart/Crowder and Brad Stevens. Maybe we add in Rozier instead of Jaylen Brown and Sacto still says yes?

Let me change it up. Would you deal both BK's if we kept Jaylen out and instead inserted Rozier?

Yes, I would deal 2/3 out of Brown/BRK17/BRK18 they can choose which ones but i'm keeping one of those assets.

EDIT: I would also say that if Hayward says he wants to come here next season then you make as much capspace as you can and even trade off Bradley for him.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Having to give up Brown and the two Nets picks for Cousins is a lot. But, if you could add Cousins and still go out and
sign a Hayward - I'd rather see some sort of deal where the Celtics would be given up more in future salaries,
so they can add someone besides Bogie in Free Agency.

I don't know - Bradley to a third team (Philly, Minnesota, etc) and that team sending a 2017 pick to the Kings or
restructuring the deals they've made with Sacramento - the 2 Nets picks - Rozier - Young - Mickey - 2019 Memphis -
and Crowder if Gay was in the deal. Might toss Olynyk in there too.

It would be nice if they could keep one out of Brown, 2017 Nets, 2018 Nets.

It's a difficult task for Ainge to acquire Cousins, hope he behaves, and also have enough Cap Space available to sign a
quality Free Agent - but that's why Ainge makes the Big Bucks!

[ddb]

Boogie, Casspi and McLemore for Amir, Zeller, Young,Jonas, Rozier, BRK17, BRK18, LAC19...
I think Danny would do this. Would Sac?

I'm in.

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[Disinformation]

Spoiler:

Honest question here for the board. Is it finally time for Danny to simply pull the trigger on a Boogie Cousins deal? Please DO NOT respond with the same ole narrative about Boogies attitude, etc. We have already discussed that topic numerous times. Lets keep the conversation about whether a talent like Boogie is A. enough to get us a ring and B. worth the price etc

I have it on good record that Danny could absolutely land Boogie right now if he was willing to give up both BK's. So essentially what that means is we could land Boogie and probably even Casspi (for depth) without breaking up our core.

A deal would look something like this: Boogie/Casspi for Amir/Jaylen/Mickey both BK's.

The downside is we no longer have the BK's. But we must consider that we'd be very fortunate for ONE of Jaylen, BK17 swap, BK18 to EVENTUALLY develop into a DeMarcus Cousins. So there's that.
We must also consider how completely and utterly dominate a prime years Boogie could be in the Eastern Conference? IMO he would be an MVP candidate for the next 5 years in the East.
Another thing to consider....realistically is there a better option to trade for? Is Anthony Davis ever REALLY going to become available? And if so, what is the price? Is it worth the price it will take?
So we know he hasn't won yet. But we also know he's been in a bad situation in Sacto with a revolving door of teammates, coaches and front office execs. Doesn't help that the West has been very tough for many years.

This deal would leave us with the following:
IT-Bradley-Crowder-Horford-Cousins
Rozier-Smart-Casspi-Jonas-KO
Jackson-Young-Green-Zeller plus 1 open roster spot.

IT, Boogie, Bradley, Crowder are entering their prime years. Smart, Rozier will get better. Horford's game should age well so I'm confident we'll get a good contract out of him. KO, Jonas, Casspi sorta are what they are.. We must consider contracts moving forward as Boogie, IT, Bradley, Smart, KO call for new contracts. Can we also add a talented free agent after this deal? and How will Danny maneuver that?

Match-up wise against Cleveland. We have Kyrie VS IT. Good match up. Bradley/Smart/Rozier are there to slow down Kyrie. on the flip side, nobody on Cleveland can slow down Boogie. Maybe Tristian Thompson. It certainly will not be Kevin Love slowing Boogie/Horford down. So ultimately the series comes down to Crowder/Smart/Horford being able to neutralize LeBron...and coaching. It would be a great, great series. LeBron is getting older too. So even if they beat us once in the East. Even twice. I think by year 3 we are the cream of the crop in the East for 5 years or so.

I say go for it. Let's get Boogie to Boston. I'm game for this. After about a year of going back and forth on this....I'm ready. I just can't see Danny wasting a Horford contract on waiting for Jaylen and 2017 and 2018 rookies developing. I also think Boogie would behave and be awesome in a better situation

we are a plus 10-14 wins with this deal. We're already a 50 win team (most likely). This puts us in the 60's and potentially the #1 seed with home court throughout as well

I think my answer to this is no and here's why: As good as Cousins is, and even if you put aside concerns about attitude risks, I don't think he alone is enough to take this team from a early round exit to a real contender. I think you need one more impact guy but this trade removes any chance of that happening because you no longer have Jaylen Brown to develop, either BKN pick, or cap space in 2017. If we could get a similar deal but keep one of the BKN picks OR Brown, it would be a different story.

The renounce/trade/stash everyone scenario:

'17-'18 GUARANTEED
27.734405 Horford
18.063850 Cousins
8.808989 Bradley
6.796117 Crowder
6.261395 Thomas
4.538020 Smart
1.988520 Rozier

74.191296 total

102.000000 cap
122.000000 lux tax

~27.8 mil in cap space, less minimum roster holds and any youths you chose not to purge / weren't able to stash (Zizic, Jackson, Yabu, etc.). Greater than 20mil should be easily achievable. You can also hold Olynyk's rights until you have a better use for the space.

Interesting. Any thoughts on who might be available for, say, ~$25million? That's not going to be max contract money so you're basically talking about tier 3 players (since tier 1 will obviously get max contracts and tier 2 guys will get overpaid with max contract money from desperate teams).

[Bohemian]

Basically, I think I'm playing chicken. I'm holding out to try to somehow retain one BRK pick as a small hedge (ideally '18), counting on Sac to continue to fail to make positive progress as the clock ticks on Boogie's contract. But, if they're about to pull the trigger and trade him to another team, I meet the asking price.

It truly is a game of chicken. Cousins IS the first or 2nd best big man in the game today. He and Anthony Davis. KAT's, Zinger are going to be special as well. I think people are underestimating how much better Cousins is this year VS last year with that added 3pt shot that he's making at a 40% clip now. He couldn't shoot it this well, but clearly worked on his range and overall game. He is DOMINATE. He's starting to put up 38/20/5 lines. His prime years are going to be scary. He needs out of Sacto and I truly believe that Boston is the best place for him. Good leadership, good structure. I think we can win a ring with Boogie.
Remember this. Kyrie couldn't win sh&t without LeBron. People thought he was this insanely talented kid that couldn't win. Look at him now making ridiculous shots in the finals on the biggest stage.
Boogie is just fine on the Olympic team. I think he would be just fine with Horford/IT/AB/Smart/Crowder and Brad Stevens. Maybe we add in Rozier instead of Jaylen Brown and Sacto still says yes?

Let me change it up. Would you deal both BK's if we kept Jaylen out and instead inserted Rozier?

I would, but would the Kings settle for that?

[DavorFanCroatia]

Boogie, Casspi and McLemore for Amir, Zeller, Young,Jonas, Rozier, BRK17, BRK18, LAC19...
I think Danny would do this. Would Sac?

I'm in.

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I'm in too.
Next year we add Žižić, Yabusele and Nader and re-sign Kelly and start with a team
IT / Smart / Jackson
Bradley / McLemore / Nader
Crowder / Brown / Casspi
Horford / Olynyk / Yabusele
Cousins / Žižić / Mickey
That team would give hell to LeBron and GSW

[SmartWentCrazy]

If Stevens signs off on it, I'd do it. If he balks, we should pass.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Let me change it up. Would you deal both BK's if we kept Jaylen out and instead inserted Rozier?

Do the deal, if they can keep either Brown or the 2017 BKN pick. Brown has a higher upside than either Bradley or Crowder, so one or both go along with Rozier.

[peachbucket]

Boogie, Casspi and McLemore for Amir, Zeller, Young,Jonas, Rozier, BRK17, BRK18, LAC19...
I think Danny would do this. Would Sac?

I'm in.

Sent from my SM-G930T using RealGM mobile app

This is getting very close for me as well, however he may attainable for even less because he may have a fairly limited market despite being a top 7 talent.

[reload141]

If Stevens signs off on it, I'd do it. If he balks, we should pass.

Here's the thing I don't get... Stevens should want to acquire an All-Star talent such as Cousins and if he truly is "available" we can't go to Stevens and say "We can get him for X, do you want him?" then he says "Nuh I don't want him because he might be difficult to coach" we then sit on our hands for another year or maybe more waiting for someone that Stevens "approves".

I can see it now, after Stevens "blocks" the move we complain about Ainge not landing the superstar talent and cry and whinge that we are never going to make that BIG trade that we need.

[SMTBSI]

Interesting. Any thoughts on who might be available for, say, ~$25million? That's not going to be max contract money so you're basically talking about tier 3 players (since tier 1 will obviously get max contracts and tier 2 guys will get overpaid with max contract money from desperate teams).

I suppose option one is to try to convince a "tier 1 or 2" guy to give back a couple mil to join a prime contender and great situation.

Probable fallback is filling the cap out with movable, short-term contracts (Amir/Jerebko part deux) so you can readily match to take back any large contract in trade. Which is why I want to hold on to the '18BRK pick if possible.

Possibly, those filler deals could be even better values than the Amir and JJ deals, since the team will be a bit closer to contention, and so might attract decent players as a 2nd tier ring-chaser's destination.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Both Nets picks? Lol. And Jaylen? HELL NO!!

I'd rather shop those picks and see what else is available for that price. If I'm trading both of those picks and Jaylen Brown, my first call would be to Indiana, for Paul George.

IT/Bradley/Crowder/PG13/Horford

Just say no to Cousins. Watch a week's worth of his games and it should be enough to convince you that he's not the "star" we should trade for. He is Derrick Coleman fused with Grumpy Smurf, mixed in with Oscar the Grouch. Nobody likes that guy, and his negativity is infectious.

[Banks2Pierce]

Watch a week's worth of his games and it should be enough to convince you that he's not the "star" we should trade for.

Not for nothing, but I think I've watched decent portions of 3 or 4 of his games in the past week and he's averaged 35 and 13 while shooting 52% from 3. Dude's comfortably in the top 10.

[SMTBSI]

Both Nets picks? Lol. And Jaylen? HELL NO!!

I'd rather shop those picks and see what else is available for that price. If I'm trading both of those picks and Jaylen Brown, my first call would be to Indiana, for Paul George.

IT/Bradley/Crowder/PG13/Horford

Just say no to Cousins. Watch a week's worth of his games and it should be enough to convince you that he's not the "star" we should trade for. He is Derrick Coleman fused with Grumpy Smurf, mixed in with Oscar the Grouch. Nobody likes that guy, and his negativity is infectious.

He'll be effectively entirely replacing the minutes of Zeller, Jerebko, and about half of Amir or Olynyk, depending on who goes out to get him. There's no single realistic individual move we could make this season that would have a bigger on-court impact.

The only question, for me, is if he can be acquired in a way that leaves us a chance to bring in one last piece down the road.

If not, then I pass - he's not enough on his own. If yes, I pull the trigger.

[AllHype3]

Would Cousins deal be dead if the first piece Kings ask for is Horford?

[CelticFaninLBC]

Boogie, Casspi and McLemore for Amir, Zeller, Young,Jonas, Rozier, BRK17, BRK18, LAC19...
I think Danny would do this. Would Sac?

I suspect SAC would want a rotation guy, and Boston loses their 2017-18 max cap space...

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Watch a week's worth of his games and it should be enough to convince you that he's not the "star" we should trade for.

Not for nothing, but I think I've watched decent portions of 3 or 4 of his games in the past week and he's averaged 35 and 13 while shooting 52% from 3. Dude's comfortably in the top 10.

His talent is undeniable. But again, it's his attitude that sucks. We can't have a trade discussion about DMC without bringing up his attitude. Trading both lottery picks for this guy, and then pissing off Brad Stevens in the process, does not sound like a good trade. 2 Nets picks would be a terrible trade. Who else is bidding for this guy that can even top the offer of just one lone Nets pick?

[ddb]

Anyone who thinks there is no shot we beat Cle....I have news for u. We 100% have no shot now. With Cousins in the mix I say 40% shot this year and next. Then we take over.

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[ddb]

I think my answer to this is no and here's why: As good as Cousins is, and even if you put aside concerns about attitude risks, I don't think he alone is enough to take this team from a early round exit to a real contender. I think you need one more impact guy but this trade removes any chance of that happening because you no longer have Jaylen Brown to develop, either BKN pick, or cap space in 2017. If we could get a similar deal but keep one of the BKN picks OR Brown, it would be a different story.

The renounce/trade/stash everyone scenario:

'17-'18 GUARANTEED
27.734405 Horford
18.063850 Cousins
8.808989 Bradley
6.796117 Crowder
6.261395 Thomas
4.538020 Smart
1.988520 Rozier

74.191296 total

102.000000 cap
122.000000 lux tax

~27.8 mil in cap space, less minimum roster holds and any youths you chose not to purge / weren't able to stash (Zizic, Jackson, Yabu, etc.). Greater than 20mil should be easily achievable. You can also hold Olynyk's rights until you have a better use for the space.

Interesting. Any thoughts on who might be available for, say, ~$25million? That's not going to be max contract money so you're basically talking about tier 3 players (since tier 1 will obviously get max contracts and tier 2 guys will get overpaid with max contract money from desperate teams).

Hayward.

IT-BRADLEY-HAYWARD-HORFORD-COUSINS
Rozier-Smart-Crowder-KO
Yabusele, Zizic, Jackson

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[SmartWentCrazy]

If Stevens signs off on it, I'd do it. If he balks, we should pass.

Here's the thing I don't get... Stevens should want to acquire an All-Star talent such as Cousins and if he truly is "available" we can't go to Stevens and say "We can get him for X, do you want him?" then he says "Nuh I don't want him because he might be difficult to coach" we then sit on our hands for another year or maybe more waiting for someone that Stevens "approves".

I can see it now, after Stevens "blocks" the move we complain about Ainge not landing the superstar talent and cry and whinge that we are never going to make that BIG trade that we need.

He is difficult to coach. Part of his allure as a fit here is that Stevens (and our veterans) seems like he could reign him in. If Stevens doesn't want him and goes back to college over this, Boogie becomes more volatile and becomes too risk IMO.