Knicks not ruling out DRose extension later in the season

[moocow007]

Yeah the Rose trade was fine.

Like I said previously, Lopez isn't exactly lighting things up for the Bulls either. He's not the reason why they have been surprisingly good (that's Wade's doing).

The Knicks could have replaced Lopez with someone else that would have made losing him marginal IF they hadn't signed Noah to that crazy deal. They didn't give up Wilt Chamberlain to get Rose, they gave up a solid role playing C that helped them win all of 32 games last season (along with a worthless Jose Calderon and Jerian Grant who appears to be on his way out of the NBA) .

Signing Noah and his inability to stay on the floor and his lack of productivity (reasons we are pining for Lopze) has nothing to do directly with Rose. No one forced Phil Jackson to sign Noah. They could have worked out a deal to take Bogut's expiring from the Warriors and we'd be not bitching about losing Lopez or about Noah's $72 million potential dead weight contract. But that's all on Jackson not Rose or Noah (no one forced Jackson to give Noah that contract).

I remember that period of time after the Rose trade there were a lot of rumors flying around about who Phil might sign at center. It would be interesting to see Pau or Bogut on this team instead of Noah right now. I wish the players hadn't convinced Phil that Noah was the answer for that amount of money.

Phil has been a fan of Noah since he was the Lakers coach. I don't think anybody convinced him to go after Noah

Yeah. If Phil Jackson wasn't listening to Carmelo Anthony, he most definitely wasn't going to listen to Derrick Rose. The reports that Rose somehow convinced Jackson to go after Noah made no sense. Jackson doesn't listen to anybody. That's actually been part of his charm his entire career. It's why he never got along with Jerry Krause or Jerry West, two notorious control and respect guys. If he actually did listen to other people, he'd have hired Tom Thibodeau as head coach already the first chance he got instead of Hornacek and never would have even remotely entertained the thought of Rambis as anything other than the porn guy.

[cayuck]

I remember that period of time after the Rose trade there were a lot of rumors flying around about who Phil might sign at center. It would be interesting to see Pau or Bogut on this team instead of Noah right now. I wish the players hadn't convinced Phil that Noah was the answer for that amount of money.

Phil has been a fan of Noah since he was the Lakers coach. I don't think anybody convinced him to go after Noah

Yeah. If Phil Jackson wasn't listening to Carmelo Anthony, he most definitely wasn't going to listen to Derrick Rose. The reports that Rose somehow convinced Jackson to go after Noah made no sense. Jackson doesn't listen to anybody. That's part of his charm. If he actually did listen to other people, he'd have hired Tom Thibodeau as head coach instead of Hornacek.

Whatever the case was, I wish Phil had just taken more time with the decision or consider more options. It felt like right after he traded for Rose he locked onto Noah and that was it, never even made an offer to anyone else. Right now it feels like a total blunder the way Noah looks.

[moocow007]

Phil has been a fan of Noah since he was the Lakers coach. I don't think anybody convinced him to go after Noah

Yeah. If Phil Jackson wasn't listening to Carmelo Anthony, he most definitely wasn't going to listen to Derrick Rose. The reports that Rose somehow convinced Jackson to go after Noah made no sense. Jackson doesn't listen to anybody. That's part of his charm. If he actually did listen to other people, he'd have hired Tom Thibodeau as head coach instead of Hornacek.

Whatever the case was, I wish Phil had just taken more time with the decision or consider more options. It felt like right after he traded for Rose he locked onto Noah and that was it, never even made an offer to anyone else. Right now it feels like a total blunder the way Noah looks.

Absolutely. He makes moves based on gut or some form of zen like view of things it seems. That may be fine for smoking peyote and contemplating the meaning of the universe but not so much when you got a franchise that has been waist deep in crap that needed a master to pull them out and didn't have many resources to do so.

[HEZI]

I remember that period of time after the Rose trade there were a lot of rumors flying around about who Phil might sign at center. It would be interesting to see Pau or Bogut on this team instead of Noah right now. I wish the players hadn't convinced Phil that Noah was the answer for that amount of money.

Phil has been a fan of Noah since he was the Lakers coach. I don't think anybody convinced him to go after Noah

Yeah. If Phil Jackson wasn't listening to Carmelo Anthony, he most definitely wasn't going to listen to Derrick Rose. The reports that Rose somehow convinced Jackson to go after Noah made no sense. Jackson doesn't listen to anybody. That's actually been part of his charm his entire career. It's why he never got along with Jerry Krause or Jerry West, two notorious control and respect guys. If he actually did listen to other people, he'd have hired Tom Thibodeau as head coach already the first chance he got instead of Hornacek and never would have even remotely entertained the thought of Rambis as anything other than the porn guy.

I do wonder about Courtney Lee though. Even Lee admitted that a major reason why he came to NY was because Noah recruited him hard. Brandon Jennings also doesn't strike me as a Phil Jackson type of player, I think somebody was definitely in his ear about that, maybe Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose.

[moocow007]

Phil has been a fan of Noah since he was the Lakers coach. I don't think anybody convinced him to go after Noah

Yeah. If Phil Jackson wasn't listening to Carmelo Anthony, he most definitely wasn't going to listen to Derrick Rose. The reports that Rose somehow convinced Jackson to go after Noah made no sense. Jackson doesn't listen to anybody. That's actually been part of his charm his entire career. It's why he never got along with Jerry Krause or Jerry West, two notorious control and respect guys. If he actually did listen to other people, he'd have hired Tom Thibodeau as head coach already the first chance he got instead of Hornacek and never would have even remotely entertained the thought of Rambis as anything other than the porn guy.

I do wonder about Courtney Lee though. Even Lee admitted that a major reason why he came to NY was because Noah recruited him hard. Brandon Jennings also doesn't strike me as a Phil Jackson type of player, I think somebody was definitely in his ear about that, maybe Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose.

Lee may have come to NY because of Noah but I don't doubt that Jackson would have been interested in him. The only difference is that Lee likely would have said no if Noah wasn't already here. As far as Jennings goes, I think it was more so the "I'm willing to take a one year $5 million contract" that got him interested by Jackson (also Jennings has, for some reason...he's a west coast guy...wanted to be a Knick since before his draft year). The Knicks clearly needed a backup PG especially with Rose's health and there really wasn't any other viable (i.e. sober, not 40 years old or broken) options. Wouldn't be surprised if Jennings went to Jackson to ask in.

[Capn'O]

Phil has been a fan of Noah since he was the Lakers coach. I don't think anybody convinced him to go after Noah

Yeah. If Phil Jackson wasn't listening to Carmelo Anthony, he most definitely wasn't going to listen to Derrick Rose. The reports that Rose somehow convinced Jackson to go after Noah made no sense. Jackson doesn't listen to anybody. That's part of his charm. If he actually did listen to other people, he'd have hired Tom Thibodeau as head coach instead of Hornacek.

Whatever the case was, I wish Phil had just taken more time with the decision or consider more options. It felt like right after he traded for Rose he locked onto Noah and that was it, never even made an offer to anyone else. Right now it feels like a total blunder the way Noah looks.

I would argue that it happened before. It looks to me like he was more interested in Noah (and Lee to a lesser extent) than Rose.

[moocow007]

Yeah. If Phil Jackson wasn't listening to Carmelo Anthony, he most definitely wasn't going to listen to Derrick Rose. The reports that Rose somehow convinced Jackson to go after Noah made no sense. Jackson doesn't listen to anybody. That's part of his charm. If he actually did listen to other people, he'd have hired Tom Thibodeau as head coach instead of Hornacek.

Whatever the case was, I wish Phil had just taken more time with the decision or consider more options. It felt like right after he traded for Rose he locked onto Noah and that was it, never even made an offer to anyone else. Right now it feels like a total blunder the way Noah looks.

I would argue that it happened before. It looks to me like he was more interested in Noah (and Lee to a lesser extent) than Rose.

Yeah. Makes you wonder that part of the reason doing the Rose trade might be the notion that it would appeal to Noah (since Rose was generally considered one of Noah's closest friends on the Bulls). Scary. I mean Rose only had one year so Jackson didn't have to commit to him long (if he really didn't like him all that much) but it would be enough to get his hooks into Noah for multiple years. Yeah conspiracy but still...I just had a picture of Phil having a secret room in his Montana digs chuck full of pictures of Joakim Noah.

[HEZI]

Yeah. If Phil Jackson wasn't listening to Carmelo Anthony, he most definitely wasn't going to listen to Derrick Rose. The reports that Rose somehow convinced Jackson to go after Noah made no sense. Jackson doesn't listen to anybody. That's actually been part of his charm his entire career. It's why he never got along with Jerry Krause or Jerry West, two notorious control and respect guys. If he actually did listen to other people, he'd have hired Tom Thibodeau as head coach already the first chance he got instead of Hornacek and never would have even remotely entertained the thought of Rambis as anything other than the porn guy.

I do wonder about Courtney Lee though. Even Lee admitted that a major reason why he came to NY was because Noah recruited him hard. Brandon Jennings also doesn't strike me as a Phil Jackson type of player, I think somebody was definitely in his ear about that, maybe Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose.

Lee may have come to NY because of Noah but I don't doubt that Jackson would have been interested in him. The only difference is that Lee likely would have said no if Noah wasn't already here. As far as Jennings goes, I think it was more so the "I'm willing to take a one year $5 million contract" that got him interested by Jackson (also Jennings has, for some reason...he's a west coast guy...wanted to be a Knick since before his draft year). The Knicks clearly needed a backup PG especially with Rose's health and there really wasn't any other viable (i.e. sober, not 40 years old or broken) options. Wouldn't be surprised if Jennings went to Jackson to ask in.

Could be. Also Rose was working out with Jennings in LA during the summer, I still believe Rose played some part in it even if it was just delivering a message from Jennings to Phil.

[kane2021]

This is a players league. That's never been more true than it is presently. Players set the price and teams pay it. Every team is bidding against it self. There is not one contract on this roster we had to out pay another team for. And that maybe true throughout the entire league.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Capn'O]

Whatever the case was, I wish Phil had just taken more time with the decision or consider more options. It felt like right after he traded for Rose he locked onto Noah and that was it, never even made an offer to anyone else. Right now it feels like a total blunder the way Noah looks.

I would argue that it happened before. It looks to me like he was more interested in Noah (and Lee to a lesser extent) than Rose.

Yeah. Makes you wonder that part of the reason doing the Rose trade might be the notion that it would appeal to Noah (since Rose was generally considered one of Noah's closest friends on the Bulls). Scary. I mean Rose only had one year so Jackson didn't have to commit to him long (if he really didn't like him all that much) but it would be enough to get his hooks into Noah for multiple years. Yeah conspiracy but still...I just had a picture of Phil having a secret room in his Montana digs chuck full of pictures of Joakim Noah.

I think Jackson was pretty blase towards Rose but understood Hornacek needed guards. Noah was his biggest target, imo. That's why he was willing to give up Lopez, who he also had a kinship with.

[moocow007]

So when's Sam Presti's contract up with the Thunder?

[Capn'O]

So when's Sam Presti's contract up with the Thunder?

If that's a GM swap Dolan would actually do you wouldn't have to convince me. I'd love a guy like Presti at the reins. We'd actually keep our stars too unlike the Zombie Sonics.

[Sark]

what a surprise

you are just holding your nose and pointing fingers and calling names

how about an alternative to Rose thats realistic
or anything of substance
for once

How about 2017 pick + Jennings + Chasson Randle/Ron Baker.

Boom.

Cheaper + better = win.

I don't see that as better, so not sure where the "boom" is. That's a lot of wishful thinking sure. Rose may not be the MVP Rose but what you are offering up (basically swapping out Rose with a random PG pick likely in the 12-18 range plus either Randle or Baker (who haven't played a game in the NBA and was apparently so good that no GM drafted either of them) is nothing. Jennings inclusion is irrelevant since they can bring him back with Rose.

Were you one of the guys that though Jason Smith was going to be something? And that Lance Thomas was a must resign?

Look at the guys in his vicinity. Do you think they are getting $25m? Why pay a guy that produces so poorly so much? Makes no sense, other than you are scared of the unknown.

You'd literally probably get the same or better production from the combo I listed.

[NYKAL]

he was quoting me and I wasn't seeing any names, just Rose isn't the answer type of posts. And I also agreed with pretty much everything Moo said.

No saying Rose is a must or that I'm in love with him as a Knick. No. Just that from looking at the list of free agents, I'm not seeing anything realistic. As for Rubio....WET DREAM....I would love to see him in a Knicks jersey and if Phil could/can pull this off, without ruining what is working, my respect level would go through the roof.

Thing is, aside from Rose being a bad player (which is hard to ignore), we would be paying him big money for multiple years - this is something I don't want to do. At all. I'd rather sign Collison, Livingston, or try to trade for Bledsoe (or some other PG on crowded teams) instead of paying Rose.

sign patty mills and re-sign ennings, those 2 would be 10x's better than derrick rose.

but of course pray the knicks get one of these nice pg prospects coming out of the draft.

patty mills.....would love to see him here but, can't see him leaving his present situation. Isn't he in a good place in SA?

[NYKAL]

Draft - the guys listed on DX are just top prospects and not an actual mock, yet. Statistically, there are few teams that legitimately need PGs and will either be looking to package the pick because of that. I can see teams either trading down to where we will unfortunately be because where we are, there will be more wing players and big guys. I don't think Frank can come in day one, but I do think he can play the position (and off ball) when he does get drafted - pair him next to a cheaper guard from FA (like Collison, Jennings on another deal that will allow us to move him to bench once Frank is ready, etc).

Trade - Rubio is the guy I was thinking of. I'd take Bledsoe as well even with his injury concerns, if we are able to unload Courtney Lee. Patty Mills could be available depending on how Murray progresses. There could be guys available, but now the question is do we have enough to get them?

FA - I don't disagree with a single thing you said

My main point was that the guy who I quoted said nobody is naming names, which wasn't true, and that bringing back Rose is a terrible terrible idea. I also think it'd be easy to find someone who can replicate Rose's impact, without the facade of nice stats - even if it's not 100%, you gotta figure with an added pick and KP's progression, it should be enough. If we're average again (or suck), 2018 draft has some solid guys we could use.
...you had to catch the number gaffe, huh?

he was quoting me and I wasn't seeing any names, just Rose isn't the answer type of posts. And I also agreed with pretty much everything Moo said.

No saying Rose is a must or that I'm in love with him as a Knick. No. Just that from looking at the list of free agents, I'm not seeing anything realistic. As for Rubio....WET DREAM....I would love to see him in a Knicks jersey and if Phil could/can pull this off, without ruining what is working, my respect level would go through the roof.

Thing is, aside from Rose being a bad player (which is hard to ignore), we would be paying him big money for multiple years - this is something I don't want to do. At all. I'd rather sign Collison, Livingston, or try to trade for Bledsoe (or some other PG on crowded teams) instead of paying Rose.

I said Childress but, I actually meant Livingston (don't know why I confused them) who's intrigued me since he was a Net. Collison and Bledsoe,....I'm not really up on what they are doing and don't want to just judge them by stats so I'll respect your opinion on those two.

[moocow007]

How about 2017 pick + Jennings + Chasson Randle/Ron Baker.

Boom.

Cheaper + better = win.

I don't see that as better, so not sure where the "boom" is. That's a lot of wishful thinking sure. Rose may not be the MVP Rose but what you are offering up (basically swapping out Rose with a random PG pick likely in the 12-18 range plus either Randle or Baker (who haven't played a game in the NBA and was apparently so good that no GM drafted either of them) is nothing. Jennings inclusion is irrelevant since they can bring him back with Rose.

Were you one of the guys that though Jason Smith was going to be something? And that Lance Thomas was a must resign?

Look at the guys in his vicinity. Do you think they are getting $25m? Why pay a guy that produces so poorly so much? Makes no sense, other than you are scared of the unknown.

You'd literally probably get the same or better production from the combo I listed.

I'll be quite honest, and I've said this in the past, you can't take all stats as gospel.

[Johnny Firpo]

I hope they are not serious about this.

[mrcalzone]

Knicks extension mid season for Rose would be a classic Knicks move. Limit flexibility, tie yourself to an injury prone one dimensional ballstopper and not even see which FA's would come here

[waya]

I'm surprised there are fanboys for a 1-year rental. That's kind of embarrassing.

[Woodsanity]

I don't see that as better, so not sure where the "boom" is. That's a lot of wishful thinking sure. Rose may not be the MVP Rose but what you are offering up (basically swapping out Rose with a random PG pick likely in the 12-18 range plus either Randle or Baker (who haven't played a game in the NBA and was apparently so good that no GM drafted either of them) is nothing. Jennings inclusion is irrelevant since they can bring him back with Rose.

Were you one of the guys that though Jason Smith was going to be something? And that Lance Thomas was a must resign?

Look at the guys in his vicinity. Do you think they are getting $25m? Why pay a guy that produces so poorly so much? Makes no sense, other than you are scared of the unknown.

You'd literally probably get the same or better production from the combo I listed.

I'll be quite honest, and I've said this in the past, you can't take all stats as gospel.

You really don't need to even take stats into account even though every stat will tell you he is a **** as hell player. He can't shoot, has low bball iq, is a crappy facilitator and overall does nothing at even an average level. He was great in the past due to his athleticism. Without it he has nothing to fall back on.