2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

[PhilasFinest]

1. Can catch and shoot
2. Has defensive versatility
3. Good finisher in transition
4. Elite court vision

How is that not a good fit with Simmons?

Bad is exaggerated. Let's say it this way, I think they don't complement each other. Their best skills are very similar and they both need the ball in their hands to fully utilize their skills. I said that Ball could grow in a decent catch and shoot guy, he hasn't proved that his shot is reliable yet. He has hit them a decent rate so far in college, but that's an incredible small sample size with quite some airballs which could indicate some inconsistency in his shot. Combine that with Ball's low release point and Simmons' lack of shooting range the result will probably be poor spacing.

You still didn't explain how all of his skills fail to compliment Ben Simmons. Everything you describe is exactly what fits with Simmons. Even when youd describe his weaknesses, like lack of shot creation off the dribble, you're talking about something that Simmons does well and wouldn't be a necessity from a guard that plays with him. Now if you say you don't like him because he is just a high-level glue guy and don't see the upside, I can understand that take. But saying the skills he's shown don't fit with Simmons, is way off-base.

Yea, I think Ball would be a pretty good fit with Simmons.

Both have elite vision and passing skills, and excel in transition. The 2 would make for an exciting 1-2 punch. Imagine having to deal with BOTH Simmons and Ball running PNR with Embiid.

Ball has size for the PG spot, to the extent that he could likely defend some SG's as well.Gives you either a BIG lineup at times or allows you to get creative with who is playing the other perimeter spot.

Ball can shoot the ball from the perimeter. He and Simmons could share ball handling duties, and when Simmons is driving from the perimeter collapsing the defense which he does best, Ball would be a weapon from outside getting open looks from Simmons. He also would compliment Embiid has he can run the PNR, get him open looks and space the floor from outside.

Ball is averaging 1.5 steals and 1 block per game, from the PG spot. He is likely not Tony Allen, but he has the size to defend and seems to have a knack for getting his hand on the ball. That generates transition opportunities. Simmons does similar things, and Embiid is a defensive force. The 3 on the floor, even with Covington could make for a nightmare in terms of defending and getting out on the break.


I think Ball may be the most ideal player we could land in the draft right now. Fultz has been extremely impressive and seems to have the makings of a dynamic scorer....but the idea of having guys like Ball/Simmons/Embiid/Saric in an uptempo system, moving the ball like the Spurs/Hawks seems to have the potential to be special. Add some "3&D" players around those guys and we could be onto something dynamic and fun to watch.

With all this being said, We may be getting ahead of ourselves again just like with D'Angelo Russell. Ball is getting a TON of hype and praise (and rightfully so), and if he continues to play like this....is likely in the running for the #1 pick. We (or SAC) are gonna have to either stink it up this year and/or get lucky on lottery night.

[Sixerscan]

There are serious questions about Ball's shot, but the guy hasn't been ball dominant. His usage rate is below 20 and lower than the other top pg prospects. if you even just watch the highlights you'll notice that a lot of his assists come from him whipping the ball around the perimeter, "catch and pass" if you will.

I'm excited to watch him go against fox and monk this weekend.

[Kolkmania]

1. Can catch and shoot
2. Has defensive versatility
3. Good finisher in transition
4. Elite court vision

How is that not a good fit with Simmons?

Bad is exaggerated. Let's say it this way, I think they don't complement each other. Their best skills are very similar and they both need the ball in their hands to fully utilize their skills. I said that Ball could grow in a decent catch and shoot guy, he hasn't proved that his shot is reliable yet. He has hit them a decent rate so far in college, but that's an incredible small sample size with quite some airballs which could indicate some inconsistency in his shot. Combine that with Ball's low release point and Simmons' lack of shooting range the result will probably be poor spacing.

You still didn't explain how all of his skills fail to compliment Ben Simmons. Everything you describe is exactly what fits with Simmons. Even when youd describe his weaknesses, like lack of shot creation off the dribble, you're talking about something that Simmons does well and wouldn't be a necessity from a guard that plays with him. Now if you say you don't like him because he is just a high-level glue guy and don't see the upside, I can understand that take. But saying the skills he's shown don't fit with Simmons, is way off-base.

Both players' best skill is grabbing the defensive rebound and run in transition and neither one of them has a reliable outside shot. It would be kind of a waste to use our pick on Lonzo Ball and using him as a catch and shoot guy on offense when we don't know if he's capable of that.

[LloydFree]

Bad is exaggerated. Let's say it this way, I think they don't complement each other. Their best skills are very similar and they both need the ball in their hands to fully utilize their skills. I said that Ball could grow in a decent catch and shoot guy, he hasn't proved that his shot is reliable yet. He has hit them a decent rate so far in college, but that's an incredible small sample size with quite some airballs which could indicate some inconsistency in his shot. Combine that with Ball's low release point and Simmons' lack of shooting range the result will probably be poor spacing.

You still didn't explain how all of his skills fail to compliment Ben Simmons. Everything you describe is exactly what fits with Simmons. Even when youd describe his weaknesses, like lack of shot creation off the dribble, you're talking about something that Simmons does well and wouldn't be a necessity from a guard that plays with him. Now if you say you don't like him because he is just a high-level glue guy and don't see the upside, I can understand that take. But saying the skills he's shown don't fit with Simmons, is way off-base.

Both players' best skill is grabbing the defensive rebound and run in transition and neither one of them has a reliable outside shot. It would be kind of a waste to use our pick on Lonzo Ball and using him as a catch and shoot guy on offense when we don't know if he's capable of that.

Ok, well just say you don't trust his ridiculous looking shot against NBA defenders and we need a trustworthy shooter next to Simmons. That makes a lot more sense than saying the skills he's shown don't fit with Simmons, because its been just the opposite. FWIW, I also question his shot, that's why I said, I want to see him against higher caliber competition. If he can get his shot off against NBA level athletes then I don't care how he shoots it.

[sixerswillrule]

Both players' best skill is grabbing the defensive rebound and run in transition and neither one of them has a reliable outside shot. It would be kind of a waste to use our pick on Lonzo Ball and using him as a catch and shoot guy on offense when we don't know if he's capable of that.

Well our PG alongside Simmons wouldn't be strictly a catch and shoot guy, it should be someone who can create as well. But I agree that the best complement would be someone with more of a scorer's mentality rather than a pass first guy like Ball. That what you're getting at right?

[Marcus]

I assume everyone will be watching Ball v Fox on Saturday so hopefully watching him play answers questions for you.

I will say this though regarding Lonzo's shot. It is down right hideous but it is also accurate and has been over time with good volume. For those worried about him getting it off against NBA comp if you watch him (and I'm sure you'll see this Saturday) he doesn't force the shot, like ever. He's cut down on just launching like he was able to do in HS and he takes his shot when he has room to do so. I don't think its a concern when you consider what type of player he is as a pass first PG and EVERYTHING ELSE he brings to the table. He'll shoot it when he has a good look, he'll hit it at a more than respectable rate which will open up closing attacks and dumpoffs to bigs. He also operates well in the PnR which is what the league primarily uses and hopefully if UK is running man you get to see that this weekend.

Speaking of his passing, this notion that his assist only come a certain way is selling him very short. For those folks I ask how someone's ability to manipulate the defense with ball and body movement is a negative thing? he's sees the whole floor and adapts to what the defense gives him. Keeps his teammates involved, passes people open, gets rid of the ball quickly and spaces out to force the defense to adjust.

All that being said I do think Fultz is the best fit for Philly. I think DSJ takes the ball out of Ben and JoJo hands. I think Josh brings the defensive intensity and all-around game, but his shot is still pretty inconsistent at the moment. Lonzo would work well if there are other shooters out there and having two unselfish high IQ guys on the floor (especially at that size) wouldn't hurt. Fultz's ability to play on or off the ball and his attack mentality would fit best with the roster you guys have. His jumper is solid, his vision off the attack is good as well. He'd be ideal.

[cksdayoff]

josh jackson and lonzo ball, i have concerns about those two creating their own shots at the next level. but both are great at what they do.

i wouldn't mind dsj. obviously i want fultz but dsj wouldn't be a bad consolation prize. he's a scorer that the sixers desperately need and he has an alpha dog mentality.

[Marcus]

josh jackson and lonzo ball, i have concerns about those two creating their own shots at the next level. but both are great at what they do.

i wouldn't mind dsj. obviously i want fultz but dsj wouldn't be a bad consolation prize. he's a scorer that the sixers desperately need and he has an alpha dog mentality.

Don't think creation with them will be an issue. You don't see it because they're efficient with the ball and don't do a lot dribbling. If you mean in terms of how their shots look they're both pretty good about not forcing it against coverage. Josh gets good elevation on his jumper but he does need to iron out his mechanics.

DSJ is my favorite out of the PGs Id just worry about his fit as a ball dominant guard. I think whoever you add needs to be able to compliment Ben's current skillset and also what JoJo does. I don't think you'd fully maximize those 3 players skillsets if they're all together. That being said it's not like it couldn't work because we're still talking about three stud players. Just think there are better fits and this draft provides a little more leeway to not have to go the BPA route.

[LloydFree]

josh jackson and lonzo ball, i have concerns about those two creating their own shots at the next level. but both are great at what they do.

i wouldn't mind dsj. obviously i want fultz but dsj wouldn't be a bad consolation prize. he's a scorer that the sixers desperately need and he has an alpha dog mentality.

Dennis Smith Jr would have to start doing some really special stuff for me to even think about spending a top 3 pick on him. He plays hard and is tough, but he's a pudgy 6'1 SG, coming off serious injury, with a questionabe perimeter shot and a 6'3 wingspan. I don't see the upside in Smith, but I could be missing something.

[sixers23]

ball has been pretty terrible at driving into the lane and creating offense for himself

[Marcus]

ball has been pretty terrible at driving into the lane and creating offense for himself

Creating for himself is not his game. DSJ and Fultz are the guys for that.

[Marcus]

josh jackson and lonzo ball, i have concerns about those two creating their own shots at the next level. but both are great at what they do.

i wouldn't mind dsj. obviously i want fultz but dsj wouldn't be a bad consolation prize. he's a scorer that the sixers desperately need and he has an alpha dog mentality.

Dennis Smith Jr would have to start doing some really special stuff for me to even think about spending a top 3 pick on him. He plays hard and is tough, but he's a pudgy 6'1 SG, coming off serious injury, with a questionabe perimeter shot and a 6'3 wingspan. I don't see the upside in Smith, but I could be missing something.

He's a PG, well paced, great bounce even after the injury, good passer, good in the PnR, needs consistency on defense but can lock in, jumper needs consistency but is solid, strong at the cup as a finisher. Wouldn't say he's pudgy but he has been out for a year And he did pick up size. Wingspan could be a problem though since he isn't overly long.

[Kobblehead]

Lonzo Ball is a great prospect and he seems far and away the best fit with Simmons. Very low-maintenance offensively and unselfish.

Both Jackson and Fultz have usages that will flirt with 30% this year. Ball's has been hovering around 15-18%.

[Kobblehead]

Dennis Smith Jr would have to start doing some really special stuff for me to even think about spending a top 3 pick on him. He plays hard and is tough, but he's a pudgy 6'1 SG, coming off serious injury, with a questionabe perimeter shot and a 6'3 wingspan. I don't see the upside in Smith, but I could be missing something.

He's been pretty bad this year, too. Doesn't even look like a 1-and-done.

[Kobblehead]

We've come too far in scouting to allow highschool hype to propel kids to the top 10. Dennis Smith has shown nothing to prove he's a lotto talent, thus far. His skill level isn't even flashing. His shooting percentages are garbage and he's distributing like an off-guard instead of a lead one.

[Sixerscan]

We've come too far in scouting to allow highschool hype to propel kids to the top 10. Dennis Smith has shown nothing to prove he's a lotto talent, thus far. His skill level isn't even flashing. His shooting percentages are garbage and he's distributing like an off-guard instead of a lead one.

Give him a minute. Go take a look at Ingram's first 5 games last year.

[Kobblehead]

Brandon Ingram was all shooting skill and no demonstrated excellence. I was never high on him as a prospect. If he's the silver lining to Dennis Smith's poor play to open the season, that discourages me even further.

[LloydFree]

We've come too far in scouting to allow highschool hype to propel kids to the top 10. Dennis Smith has shown nothing to prove he's a lotto talent, thus far. His skill level isn't even flashing. His shooting percentages are garbage and he's distributing like an off-guard instead of a lead one.

Give him a minute. Go take a look at Ingram's first 5 games last year.

But Ingram wasn't 6'1 with a 6'3 wingspan. At his size, Dennis Smith has to show Chris Paul like talent to even be a consideration in the top 5, IMO.

[eagereyez]

Fultz is averaging more steals and blocks per/40 than Ball and they're currently tied in DBPM. At this point I don't think Ball has an edge over Fultz defensively. Fultz has a larger wingspan and is a similar athlete, so it's not surprising. Fultz is the better scorer, Ball is the better facilitator. On a team with Simmons, give me Fultz.

[Kobblehead]

Fultz is averaging more steals and blocks per/40 than Ball and they're currently tied in DBPM. At this point I don't think Ball has an edge over Fultz defensively. Fultz has a larger wingspan and is a similar athlete, so it's not surprising. Fultz is the better scorer, Ball is the better facilitator. On a team with Simmons, give me Fultz.

50% of the threes Fultz takes are pull-ups. On the flip-side, a whopping 83% of Ball's threes are assisted. The player that fits best with Simmons will be the one most willing and effective off the ball. On paper, Ball projects to be the more synergistic with Simmons of the two.