OT - Trump

[yesh]

Everyone remembers stalins push for a working minimum wage and marriage equality!

[michaelm]

Finally a president willing to stand up for white christians in America. Viva el presidente!

Perhaps an actual white Christian may have been superior, but whatever fills your boots.

[yesh]

Finally a president willing to stand up for white christians in America. Viva el presidente!

Perhaps an actual white Christian may have been superior, but whatever fills your boots.

I was being sarcastic.

[michaelm]

Finally a president willing to stand up for white christians in America. Viva el presidente!

Perhaps an actual white Christian may have been superior, but whatever fills your boots.

I was being sarcastic.

Sorry, cultural dissonance.

Whatever Donald Trump may be, and while I strongly disapprove of him I don't think he is inherently a racist, but rather an adventurist/opportunist with no obvious principles, I did find the support for him from the televangelists on late might TV when I was in the USA just prior to the election to surpass all understanding, since it is hard to discern from my distant and perhaps culturally ignorant viewpoint many signs of him being Christian either. There is obviously no need to point out that there seems to be little basis in actual Christianity for further qualifying the word "Christian'" by the word "white", given your now clear ironic intent.

[turk3d]

Perhaps an actual white Christian may have been superior, but whatever fills your boots.

I was being sarcastic.

Sorry, cultural dissonance.

Whatever Donald Trump may be, and while I strongly disapprove of him I don't think he is inherently a racist, but rather an adventurist/opportunist with no obvious principles, I did find the support for him from the televangelists on late might TV when I was in the USA just prior to the election to surpass all understanding, since it is hard to discern from my distant and perhaps culturally ignorant viewpoint many signs of him being Christian either. There is obviously no need to point out that there seems to be little basis in actual Christianity for further qualifying the word "Christian'" by the word "white", given your now clear ironic intent.

I agree with you that I don't think that Trump is a "racist" in the true sense of the word (at least as I perceive it) and as a Christian myself I cannot understand the extent to which he received the Christian vote (I don't believe that Trump is a Christian in any way, shape or form although he may recognize that he has a pretty heavy Christian constituency). The only reason that I can think for this is many Christians attitude towards gay marriage and abortion. That may be enough of a reason for them to vote "anti-democrat". Who knows?

[old rem]

Finally a president willing to stand up for white christians in America. Viva el presidente!

Perhaps an actual white Christian may have been superior, but whatever fills your boots.

I was being sarcastic.

I propose a Trump rule. Parody, sarcasim, satire has to be noted as such. So often the REALITY is way beyond any parody. right now... we have the rumbles of corruption and conflict of interest. We have Billionaires, Wall St hustlers, we have career bigots,fringe conspiracy site nuts......sarah palin Giuliani......who seems to have flipped out totally. OMG.

I see a light in the distance. The next few years will be deplorable....regressive.....malfunction....embarassing. I HOPE America GETS A DAMN CLUE. the OUTCOME ought to be that the next 2 elections are a disaster for the GOP.

[mos_def]

The GOP is so far right now that Pence is a standard conservative Pence is a religious nutcase*, he should be the fringe not the center. No wonder real live nazis are coming out of the woodworks and feel legitimized.

I've seen this coming for awhile now. The US political system has been moving further and further right. Either we somehow pull back or things will get really ugly, quick.

* some info on Pence: https://www.democracynow.org/2016/11/21/jeremy_scahill_mike_pence_has_militant

1- If the US political system is not moving too far right. I think the left has really gone left and the right has went right to counter it too, thus leaving a gap in America saying, "What the hell happened."

2- I tend to find democracynow in the same light as breithbart. There is a certain agenda both sites have and I filter all the white noise in most media anyways, so I don't like the extra work of having to filter out even more of the bias agendas of either site. They both breed an unwarranted the sky is going to fall which I find unbeneficial. I tend to do the same with Rachael Maddow for MSNBC the left and Judge Jeannie FOX NEWS for the right for television. Do I know of Mike Pence history? For the most part. Do I find him as bad as the left media portrays him? Not even close.

You like to filter out the white noise whilst at the same time, participating in the MSM's favourite white noise past time of both siderism. Who is far left in the democratic party? Dems haven't really moved the needle anywhere towards the left, it's just that you've been fed a steady diet of this nonsense until it's taken residence. The republican party is full of absolute extremists, across all disciplines from safety nets, to economic, to free speech. The dems have actually shifted to the right as a party, because they've allowed themselves to be dragged there by a bunch of gerrymandered knuckle draggers. Trump regurgitates far right conspiracies as truth, and it's depressing.

You're seriously comparing Maddow with that judge? That's just plain wrong dude. I don't personally like maddow as she's too long winded with the points she makes, but that judge is insane.

I hate to say it my friend, but as part of this false equivalency nonsense in American life, you're actually part of the problem.

Ill answer all these points:
1- I didn't say that Maddow and Judge are the same person. I said they seem to be extreme on both sides of the fence. Judge is on the right and Maddow on the left.

2- To deny that some of the DNC has shifted far left and scream that the GOP is shifted far right while you see the DNC in the middle just proves, I say this lovingly, just means you are still in a bubble. If you cant see some part shifting far left than I doubt you saw many Americans being left behind. I don't know you were able to drive across America and see it, but if you just turned on CNN and believed everything they told you, I bet you are still confused how Hillary lost. To be fully unbiased, you have to be aware that stuff is happening on both sides of any situation, and find what best answers the middle.

You want evidence how the DNC has moved far left? Do you believe Fidel Castro was a good person? Obama thinks so. Tredeau thinks so. Many other DNC says so too. I haven't seen many DNC guys say otherwise (they could be out there) but from what I see it isn't there. If Fidel Castro was so good, why were there thousands of Cubans leaving on falling apart boats to flee the Cuba? Seriously, answer that. Cuz their "great health system" isn't keeping them in Cuba. You want to bring up people in Cuba mourning Fidel's death? You know Cuba is pretty much a totalitarian regime with Raul, right? If they pull a Kaepernick they probably get shot.

So to close, I believe you are part of the problem, cuz you either believe the other side does not exist, or that the side you are on is totally correct....

[FNQ]

Man that last page was funny...
I find it hilarious when people point to 3rd world countries using communism as a way to maintain power and then act like that that's what would happen here. I can't tell if its that they were conditioned to believe it and are just repeating it, or if they worked backwards from the answer they wanted, or they just have such little understanding of economic factors that they truly believe that they are equal.

Because there are capitalism-based 3rd world countries that are also failing. So clearly that doesnt work either. Honestly, no "pure" ideal works. Capitalism kinda works here but its supplemented by *gasp* socialist programs. Some of which are used by these gigantic corporations to enhance profit.

But anyways, I'm glad to see Alex Jones has a foothold in American politics. I'm sure this signifies the golden age of enlightenment in American politics. Its about time we stuck it to those damned lizard people.

[FNQ]

1- If the US political system is not moving too far right. I think the left has really gone left and the right has went right to counter it too, thus leaving a gap in America saying, "What the hell happened."

2- I tend to find democracynow in the same light as breithbart. There is a certain agenda both sites have and I filter all the white noise in most media anyways, so I don't like the extra work of having to filter out even more of the bias agendas of either site. They both breed an unwarranted the sky is going to fall which I find unbeneficial. I tend to do the same with Rachael Maddow for MSNBC the left and Judge Jeannie FOX NEWS for the right for television. Do I know of Mike Pence history? For the most part. Do I find him as bad as the left media portrays him? Not even close.

You like to filter out the white noise whilst at the same time, participating in the MSM's favourite white noise past time of both siderism. Who is far left in the democratic party? Dems haven't really moved the needle anywhere towards the left, it's just that you've been fed a steady diet of this nonsense until it's taken residence. The republican party is full of absolute extremists, across all disciplines from safety nets, to economic, to free speech. The dems have actually shifted to the right as a party, because they've allowed themselves to be dragged there by a bunch of gerrymandered knuckle draggers. Trump regurgitates far right conspiracies as truth, and it's depressing.

You're seriously comparing Maddow with that judge? That's just plain wrong dude. I don't personally like maddow as she's too long winded with the points she makes, but that judge is insane.

I hate to say it my friend, but as part of this false equivalency nonsense in American life, you're actually part of the problem.

Ill answer all these points:
1- I didn't say that Maddow and Judge are the same person. I said they seem to be extreme on both sides of the fence. Judge is on the right and Maddow on the left.

2- To deny that some of the DNC has shifted far left and scream that the GOP is shifted far right while you see the DNC in the middle just proves, I say this lovingly, just means you are still in a bubble. If you cant see some part shifting far left than I doubt you saw many Americans being left behind. I don't know you were able to drive across America and see it, but if you just turned on CNN and believed everything they told you, I bet you are still confused how Hillary lost. To be fully unbiased, you have to be aware that stuff is happening on both sides of any situation, and find what best answers the middle.

You want evidence how the DNC has moved far left? Do you believe Fidel Castro was a good person? Obama thinks so. Tredeau thinks so. Many other DNC says so too. I haven't seen many DNC guys say otherwise (they could be out there) but from what I see it isn't there. If Fidel Castro was so good, why were there thousands of Cubans leaving on falling apart boats to flee the Cuba? Seriously, answer that. Cuz their "great health system" isn't keeping them in Cuba. You want to bring up people in Cuba mourning Fidel's death? You know Cuba is pretty much a totalitarian regime with Raul, right? If they pull a Kaepernick they probably get shot.

So to close, I believe you are part of the problem, cuz you either believe the other side does not exist, or that the side you are on is totally correct....

Castro is a really complex issue.

On one side of the coin, he was a dictator who was cruel and terrible to his people. He demanded you fall in line. And that has no place in America. Ironically though IMO, the same staunch rights who say this about Castro sure do not like if you exercise free speech in a way that they dont like. Kaepernick is a great example. If there are riots, then its "why dont they protest peacefully?" If its not standing for the anthem, its "How dare they disrespect America?" It's like they are ignorant to the fact that in order to protest, you have to do something that a) gets attention and b) is against societal norms. Ugh. /rant

On the other side of the Castro coin, he invested heavily in his own people. And because of that, Cuba is more ready to jump into the world market than ever before. So it's folly to say he's done nothing to help his people and its folly to ignore the horrible things he did to his people.

But in America, there is no pragmatism when it comes to these things. It's black and white, black and white. Conversations and talking points dominated by extremists that pretend there is no middle ground, and their narrow-minded visions are coming to pass because people in general refuse to understand the other side, but work to respond and rebutt. It's infuriating to me watching prominent DNC members just attackattackattack the right and blame X Y and Z for Trump's presidency instead of working to bridge the gap with the voters they lost.

Maybe I'm taking crazy pills. Or maybe I need to.

[FNQ]

Hmmm I believe you know only one country has United States..


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Germany is building a wall..United States is building a wall and President of Mexico himself said he is building a wall. Trump is the brexit movement of this country. Trump has been anointed by God to be President of the United States of America. Trump said about two months ago that he is going to protect Christian in this country like you've never seen before. Trump will be the best President this country has ever seen. I will share video on proving what I spoke on tomorrow from my home computer and not now from my cell phone ..Stay tune for Facts and Not conspiracy theories. Hillary for communism and President Trump for Constitutional Rights. This country has declared war against God and Trump has been anointed to make things Right . A Christian Nation. There is a reason why when the President get sworn in Office he puts he's hand on the holy bible also in court. On money there is, in God we trust. United States laws comes from the 10 commandments.

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The Dunning-Kruger effect in operation yet again. I am beginning to think those dudes exceed even Shakespeare in their understanding of the human condition.

And yes, you can call me an elitist if you wish.

Elitist.
You funny, accurate elitist

[yesh]

1- If the US political system is not moving too far right. I think the left has really gone left and the right has went right to counter it too, thus leaving a gap in America saying, "What the hell happened."

2- I tend to find democracynow in the same light as breithbart. There is a certain agenda both sites have and I filter all the white noise in most media anyways, so I don't like the extra work of having to filter out even more of the bias agendas of either site. They both breed an unwarranted the sky is going to fall which I find unbeneficial. I tend to do the same with Rachael Maddow for MSNBC the left and Judge Jeannie FOX NEWS for the right for television. Do I know of Mike Pence history? For the most part. Do I find him as bad as the left media portrays him? Not even close.

You like to filter out the white noise whilst at the same time, participating in the MSM's favourite white noise past time of both siderism. Who is far left in the democratic party? Dems haven't really moved the needle anywhere towards the left, it's just that you've been fed a steady diet of this nonsense until it's taken residence. The republican party is full of absolute extremists, across all disciplines from safety nets, to economic, to free speech. The dems have actually shifted to the right as a party, because they've allowed themselves to be dragged there by a bunch of gerrymandered knuckle draggers. Trump regurgitates far right conspiracies as truth, and it's depressing.

You're seriously comparing Maddow with that judge? That's just plain wrong dude. I don't personally like maddow as she's too long winded with the points she makes, but that judge is insane.

I hate to say it my friend, but as part of this false equivalency nonsense in American life, you're actually part of the problem.

Ill answer all these points:
1- I didn't say that Maddow and Judge are the same person. I said they seem to be extreme on both sides of the fence. Judge is on the right and Maddow on the left.

2- To deny that some of the DNC has shifted far left and scream that the GOP is shifted far right while you see the DNC in the middle just proves, I say this lovingly, just means you are still in a bubble. If you cant see some part shifting far left than I doubt you saw many Americans being left behind. I don't know you were able to drive across America and see it, but if you just turned on CNN and believed everything they told you, I bet you are still confused how Hillary lost. To be fully unbiased, you have to be aware that stuff is happening on both sides of any situation, and find what best answers the middle.

You want evidence how the DNC has moved far left? Do you believe Fidel Castro was a good person? Obama thinks so. Tredeau thinks so. Many other DNC says so too. I haven't seen many DNC guys say otherwise (they could be out there) but from what I see it isn't there. If Fidel Castro was so good, why were there thousands of Cubans leaving on falling apart boats to flee the Cuba? Seriously, answer that. Cuz their "great health system" isn't keeping them in Cuba. You want to bring up people in Cuba mourning Fidel's death? You know Cuba is pretty much a totalitarian regime with Raul, right? If they pull a Kaepernick they probably get shot.

So to close, I believe you are part of the problem, cuz you either believe the other side does not exist, or that the side you are on is totally correct....

Cheers for the reply dude.

1) I got what you were saying; I''m just saying that you are wrong. Really wrong. Have you even watched an episode of each of their shows? Rachel Maddow goes into huge detail to lay the groundwork and research into the point she is about to make, and then makes it clearly (although she's too thorough for my taste and actually doesn't trust her viewers to know enough - although this election has taught me that maybe she was in the right!), whereas that judge is just a screaming banshee of talking points thrown in with a dismissive tone. Here's a really good example that is close to home for me; I'm English and live in England, but I have a fascination with American politics that stems from post 9/11 and the lead up to the Iraq war. I took part in the huge protest in our capital against that war, but from that point on, I've been hooked because it hammered home the point of exactly how important a strong (not militarily) America is to the rest of us. For the record, I don't think you're the greatest nation to have ever existed, but I do have an affinity and interest with the enlightenment period that sprung up thinkers like Franklin and Paine.

it does however depress me, to see a great experiment like the US, free from the chains of monarchy (which I strongly oppose), and religion (which I also strongly oppose, but I've read that you're a christian, and that's cool with me, I just believe religion is a private endeavour and most definitely should not have a place in the public arena), grow up up to be a country flirting with a theocracy.

So anyway...back to my story about the judge; I live in Englands second city, which is called Birmingham. A city that you may actually have heard of mainly down to a fox news terrorism expert talking with this judge about how Muslims have taken over it, and it's a no-go area for police and anyone else. Well, I'm a white atheist, and that's the biggest load of nonsense I"ve ever heard, bu tshe was spewing out this nonsense about muslim ghetto's etc, like it was a fact, and shariah is only 5 minutes away from being implemented in America because obama wouldn't say "radical, Islamic, Jihad" In short, she's a crazy person, who should be standing on a street corner with a megaphone as people try desperately to avoid eye contact with her. My challenge to you is to watch an episode of each of their shows and let me know if you still feel they are 2 sides of the same coin, really.


2) Because I'm not in the US, I get to view these things a little more dispassionately, so I reject your bubble inference pit of hand. I'll ask again, which Democrats are far left? Maybe you can cite Bernie (I know he's an independent but I'll allow it), who wanted to introduce affordable education, and take on the oligarchy that infects America, and the rest of the world unfortunately. Maybe you'll bring up warren who has fought tirelessly to introduce credit regulations that stop working class Americans being stung by huge financial institutions? Maybe you'll even say Obama, who has fought for an increased minimum wage, etc.

I can name numerous far right republicans whom don't believe in intrusive government, but want to deny woman access to reproductive rights, who fight and implement voter restrictions whenever they can, and who have all fought/fight tooth and nail against those policies I've just named aimed at helping the lowest in society. I do agree that democrats did a bad job in explaining themselves this election; infact it was a terrible job, and I know full well why Hilary lost. One final thought on this nonsense about finding solutions in the middle; that's what got your country here. When 2 people/parties hold diametrically opposed views, it rarely falls that the answer is somewhere in-between, it's far more likely that one side is just plain wrong. Which one is your choice.

3) Dude, we had an understanding right up until that Cuba rant. Cuba is absolutely nothing to do with this conversation, as well you know if you're honest with yourself, but I rather get the feeling you're struggling to explain how the DNC has moved left, when as an organisation they took a dump all over the candidate on the left to back the most wall street loving centrist they could find, in Hilary. FNQ gave a balanced response about Cuba, so I'll leave it at that.

[yesh]

Man that last page was funny...
I find it hilarious when people point to 3rd world countries using communism as a way to maintain power and then act like that that's what would happen here. I can't tell if its that they were conditioned to believe it and are just repeating it, or if they worked backwards from the answer they wanted, or they just have such little understanding of economic factors that they truly believe that they are equal.

Because there are capitalism-based 3rd world countries that are also failing. So clearly that doesnt work either. Honestly, no "pure" ideal works. Capitalism kinda works here but its supplemented by *gasp* socialist programs. Some of which are used by these gigantic corporations to enhance profit.

But anyways, I'm glad to see Alex Jones has a foothold in American politics. I'm sure this signifies the golden age of enlightenment in American politics. Its about time we stuck it to those damned lizard people.

The main problem with anyone using communism in an argument (I'm being kind) like that, is that there is no way in hell he could give an accurate description of what exactly he means by it. It gets thrown around like a boogie man for adults.

[FNQ]

It's almost like Godwin's law that michaelm referenced earlier.. democratic socialism can't be mentioned without someone going nuclear and calling it communism and thinking its like the Kremlin's version. Or worse.

[bossmangeo]

Here is this on BLM take a look

Watch on YouTube

;t=80s

Watch on YouTube

;t=69s

Watch on YouTube

Now on a diff point although i'm not a fan of this guy..

Watch on YouTube

And on this Global Agenda..

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

And Now the President Trump the Most Interesting man in the World, stay Thirsty My Friend's.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

;t=346s Watch Learn and Enjoy.. I cannot be much more Happier then I am now. Trump the President, My career On point and The GS Warriors Being what they are Now. Life is super Great!

[FNQ]

[bossmangeo]

Dr Carson tells Obama off ... Amazing speech . https://youtu.be/PFb6NU1giRA

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[michaelm]

Dr Carson tells Obama off ... Amazing speech . https://youtu.be/PFb6NU1giRA

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You are not only entirely uninterested in any reply made to you on this thread, but quite likely incapable of understanding most of them; cf the Dunning-Kruger effect.

You are obviously entitled to any political views you may have, however stupid I may consider them to be, but please don't link GSW to Trumpism, it is bad karma in my view.

[Toddl18]

You like to filter out the white noise whilst at the same time, participating in the MSM's favourite white noise past time of both siderism. Who is far left in the democratic party? Dems haven't really moved the needle anywhere towards the left, it's just that you've been fed a steady diet of this nonsense until it's taken residence. The republican party is full of absolute extremists, across all disciplines from safety nets, to economic, to free speech. The dems have actually shifted to the right as a party, because they've allowed themselves to be dragged there by a bunch of gerrymandered knuckle draggers. Trump regurgitates far right conspiracies as truth, and it's depressing.

You're seriously comparing Maddow with that judge? That's just plain wrong dude. I don't personally like maddow as she's too long winded with the points she makes, but that judge is insane.

I hate to say it my friend, but as part of this false equivalency nonsense in American life, you're actually part of the problem.

Ill answer all these points:
1- I didn't say that Maddow and Judge are the same person. I said they seem to be extreme on both sides of the fence. Judge is on the right and Maddow on the left.

2- To deny that some of the DNC has shifted far left and scream that the GOP is shifted far right while you see the DNC in the middle just proves, I say this lovingly, just means you are still in a bubble. If you cant see some part shifting far left than I doubt you saw many Americans being left behind. I don't know you were able to drive across America and see it, but if you just turned on CNN and believed everything they told you, I bet you are still confused how Hillary lost. To be fully unbiased, you have to be aware that stuff is happening on both sides of any situation, and find what best answers the middle.

You want evidence how the DNC has moved far left? Do you believe Fidel Castro was a good person? Obama thinks so. Tredeau thinks so. Many other DNC says so too. I haven't seen many DNC guys say otherwise (they could be out there) but from what I see it isn't there. If Fidel Castro was so good, why were there thousands of Cubans leaving on falling apart boats to flee the Cuba? Seriously, answer that. Cuz their "great health system" isn't keeping them in Cuba. You want to bring up people in Cuba mourning Fidel's death? You know Cuba is pretty much a totalitarian regime with Raul, right? If they pull a Kaepernick they probably get shot.

So to close, I believe you are part of the problem, cuz you either believe the other side does not exist, or that the side you are on is totally correct....

Cheers for the reply dude.

1) I got what you were saying; I''m just saying that you are wrong. Really wrong. Have you even watched an episode of each of their shows? Rachel Maddow goes into huge detail to lay the groundwork and research into the point she is about to make, and then makes it clearly (although she's too thorough for my taste and actually doesn't trust her viewers to know enough - although this election has taught me that maybe she was in the right!), whereas that judge is just a screaming banshee of talking points thrown in with a dismissive tone. Here's a really good example that is close to home for me; I'm English and live in England, but I have a fascination with American politics that stems from post 9/11 and the lead up to the Iraq war. I took part in the huge protest in our capital against that war, but from that point on, I've been hooked because it hammered home the point of exactly how important a strong (not militarily) America is to the rest of us. For the record, I don't think you're the greatest nation to have ever existed, but I do have an affinity and interest with the enlightenment period that sprung up thinkers like Franklin and Paine.

it does however depress me, to see a great experiment like the US, free from the chains of monarchy (which I strongly oppose), and religion (which I also strongly oppose, but I've read that you're a christian, and that's cool with me, I just believe religion is a private endeavour and most definitely should not have a place in the public arena), grow up up to be a country flirting with a theocracy.

So anyway...back to my story about the judge; I live in Englands second city, which is called Birmingham. A city that you may actually have heard of mainly down to a fox news terrorism expert talking with this judge about how Muslims have taken over it, and it's a no-go area for police and anyone else. Well, I'm a white atheist, and that's the biggest load of nonsense I"ve ever heard, bu tshe was spewing out this nonsense about muslim ghetto's etc, like it was a fact, and shariah is only 5 minutes away from being implemented in America because obama wouldn't say "radical, Islamic, Jihad" In short, she's a crazy person, who should be standing on a street corner with a megaphone as people try desperately to avoid eye contact with her. My challenge to you is to watch an episode of each of their shows and let me know if you still feel they are 2 sides of the same coin, really.


2) Because I'm not in the US, I get to view these things a little more dispassionately, so I reject your bubble inference pit of hand. I'll ask again, which Democrats are far left? Maybe you can cite Bernie (I know he's an independent but I'll allow it), who wanted to introduce affordable education, and take on the oligarchy that infects America, and the rest of the world unfortunately. Maybe you'll bring up warren who has fought tirelessly to introduce credit regulations that stop working class Americans being stung by huge financial institutions? Maybe you'll even say Obama, who has fought for an increased minimum wage, etc.

I can name numerous far right republicans whom don't believe in intrusive government, but want to deny woman access to reproductive rights, who fight and implement voter restrictions whenever they can, and who have all fought/fight tooth and nail against those policies I've just named aimed at helping the lowest in society. I do agree that democrats did a bad job in explaining themselves this election; infarct it was a terrible job, and I know full well why Hilary lost. One final thought on this nonsense about finding solutions in the middle; that's what got your country here. When 2 people/parties hold diametrically opposed views, it rarely falls that the answer is somewhere in-between, it's far more likely that one side is just plain wrong. Which one is your choice.

3) Dude, we had an understanding right up until that Cuba rant. Cuba is absolutely nothing to do with this conversation, as well you know if you're honest with yourself, but I rather get the feeling you're struggling to explain how the DNC has moved left, when as an organisation they took a dump all over the candidate on the left to back the most wall street loving centrist they could find, in Hilary. FNQ gave a balanced response about Cuba, so I'll leave it at that.

1. Maybe this is just because of how close we are compared to you in terms of american politics but Rachel Maddow and the Judge are both two sides to the same coin neither is better then the other as both are just fringe ideologist that do a horrible job at getting points across and instead focus more on opinions/emotions and less on facts. The only real difference between the 2 is how they approach those points as one is a screamer and the other is saleswomen. Both continuously leave out key facts/statistics in order to supplement there arguments. I watched both because I like having a broad spectrum and the easiest way to achieve that is to listen to the fringes and then some in the middle so the numerous times I've watch them I say if you flip the words around from one to the other you would see/hear the same arguments.

2. I sort of agree with Mos on this one you do come off as being a bit in the bubble and maybe that is simply because of the sources you watch as they don't generally seem to be a variety. I would say that the american political system is a little more complex then it seems both sides basically use smoke and mirrors to paint the other as horrible barbarians and the truth is most American's sort of agree on 85% of the thing. It's the other 15% of them that is different and that is the scope of government not so much anything else. I would also say that when it comes to fringes its less about an overall collective view compared to a single view. I think Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid are good examples of far left. I think Cruz or Romney are good for far right. As for things like Abortions, LGBT rights, different types of marriage, Gun Rights are all red herrings as they were already resolved but people constantly feel the need to rehash them for votes. I doubt you'll see any of those change to them.

[mos_def]

1) I got what you were saying; I''m just saying that you are wrong. Really wrong. Have you even watched an episode of each of their shows? Rachel Maddow goes into huge detail to lay the groundwork and research into the point she is about to make, and then makes it clearly (although she's too thorough for my taste and actually doesn't trust her viewers to know enough - although this election has taught me that maybe she was in the right!), whereas that judge is just a screaming banshee of talking points thrown in with a dismissive tone. Here's a really good example that is close to home for me; I'm English and live in England, but I have a fascination with American politics that stems from post 9/11 and the lead up to the Iraq war. I took part in the huge protest in our capital against that war, but from that point on, I've been hooked because it hammered home the point of exactly how important a strong (not militarily) America is to the rest of us. For the record, I don't think you're the greatest nation to have ever existed, but I do have an affinity and interest with the enlightenment period that sprung up thinkers like Franklin and Paine.

it does however depress me, to see a great experiment like the US, free from the chains of monarchy (which I strongly oppose), and religion (which I also strongly oppose, but I've read that you're a christian, and that's cool with me, I just believe religion is a private endeavour and most definitely should not have a place in the public arena), grow up up to be a country flirting with a theocracy.

So anyway...back to my story about the judge; I live in Englands second city, which is called Birmingham. A city that you may actually have heard of mainly down to a fox news terrorism expert talking with this judge about how Muslims have taken over it, and it's a no-go area for police and anyone else. Well, I'm a white atheist, and that's the biggest load of nonsense I"ve ever heard, bu tshe was spewing out this nonsense about muslim ghetto's etc, like it was a fact, and shariah is only 5 minutes away from being implemented in America because obama wouldn't say "radical, Islamic, Jihad" In short, she's a crazy person, who should be standing on a street corner with a megaphone as people try desperately to avoid eye contact with her. My challenge to you is to watch an episode of each of their shows and let me know if you still feel they are 2 sides of the same coin, really.


2) Because I'm not in the US, I get to view these things a little more dispassionately, so I reject your bubble inference pit of hand. I'll ask again, which Democrats are far left? Maybe you can cite Bernie (I know he's an independent but I'll allow it), who wanted to introduce affordable education, and take on the oligarchy that infects America, and the rest of the world unfortunately. Maybe you'll bring up warren who has fought tirelessly to introduce credit regulations that stop working class Americans being stung by huge financial institutions? Maybe you'll even say Obama, who has fought for an increased minimum wage, etc.

I can name numerous far right republicans whom don't believe in intrusive government, but want to deny woman access to reproductive rights, who fight and implement voter restrictions whenever they can, and who have all fought/fight tooth and nail against those policies I've just named aimed at helping the lowest in society. I do agree that democrats did a bad job in explaining themselves this election; infarct it was a terrible job, and I know full well why Hilary lost. One final thought on this nonsense about finding solutions in the middle; that's what got your country here. When 2 people/parties hold diametrically opposed views, it rarely falls that the answer is somewhere in-between, it's far more likely that one side is just plain wrong. Which one is your choice.

3) Dude, we had an understanding right up until that Cuba rant. Cuba is absolutely nothing to do with this conversation, as well you know if you're honest with yourself, but I rather get the feeling you're struggling to explain how the DNC has moved left, when as an organisation they took a dump all over the candidate on the left to back the most wall street loving centrist they could find, in Hilary. FNQ gave a balanced response about Cuba, so I'll leave it at that.

1. Maybe this is just because of how close we are compared to you in terms of american politics but Rachel Maddow and the Judge are both two sides to the same coin neither is better then the other as both are just fringe ideologist that do a horrible job at getting points across and instead focus more on opinions/emotions and less on facts. The only real difference between the 2 is how they approach those points as one is a screamer and the other is saleswomen. Both continuously leave out key facts/statistics in order to supplement there arguments. I watched both because I like having a broad spectrum and the easiest way to achieve that is to listen to the fringes and then some in the middle so the numerous times I've watch them I say if you flip the words around from one to the other you would see/hear the same arguments.

2. I sort of agree with Mos on this one you do come off as being a bit in the bubble and maybe that is simply because of the sources you watch as they don't generally seem to be a variety. I would say that the american political system is a little more complex then it seems both sides basically use smoke and mirrors to paint the other as horrible barbarians and the truth is most American's sort of agree on 85% of the thing. It's the other 15% of them that is different and that is the scope of government not so much anything else. I would also say that when it comes to fringes its less about an overall collective view compared to a single view. I think Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid are good examples of far left. I think Cruz or Romney are good for far right. As for things like Abortions, LGBT rights, different types of marriage, Gun Rights are all red herrings as they were already resolved but people constantly feel the need to rehash them for votes. I doubt you'll see any of those change to them.

@Yesh:
1) I highlighted the stuff I agreed with Todd18. I think he sees what Im seeing. I dont like either actually.I cant stand watching Judge. Like I said, watch both channels and one can pretty get to the middle

I assume you watch Maddow. THats fine cuz I believe Judge is just too loud. THing is Maddow put on her own spin. She had a episode saying how Pence as Governor of how in Pence's state you can go to jail for lying on a marriage certificate, spilling that he is anti-gay. The thing Maddow didnt say that, lying on a any federal document is punishable by fine or jail. It wasnt just Pence and marriage certificate, its every US federal document. She spun it like he was anti-gay though

2)I will apologize first of all, cuz I presumed that you were American? To better answer your question, can I have background of have you lived in the US or is your US PoV based off just TV?

[michaelm]

1. Maybe this is just because of how close we are compared to you in terms of american politics but Rachel Maddow and the Judge are both two sides to the same coin neither is better then the other as both are just fringe ideologist that do a horrible job at getting points across and instead focus more on opinions/emotions and less on facts. The only real difference between the 2 is how they approach those points as one is a screamer and the other is saleswomen. Both continuously leave out key facts/statistics in order to supplement there arguments. I watched both because I like having a broad spectrum and the easiest way to achieve that is to listen to the fringes and then some in the middle so the numerous times I've watch them I say if you flip the words around from one to the other you would see/hear the same arguments.

2. I sort of agree with Mos on this one you do come off as being a bit in the bubble and maybe that is simply because of the sources you watch as they don't generally seem to be a variety. I would say that the american political system is a little more complex then it seems both sides basically use smoke and mirrors to paint the other as horrible barbarians and the truth is most American's sort of agree on 85% of the thing. It's the other 15% of them that is different and that is the scope of government not so much anything else. I would also say that when it comes to fringes its less about an overall collective view compared to a single view. I think Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid are good examples of far left. I think Cruz or Romney are good for far right. As for things like Abortions, LGBT rights, different types of marriage, Gun Rights are all red herrings as they were already resolved but people constantly feel the need to rehash them for votes. I doubt you'll see any of those change to them.

@Yesh:
1) I highlighted the stuff I agreed with Todd18. I think he sees what Im seeing. I dont like either actually.I cant stand watching Judge. Like I said, watch both channels and one can pretty get to the middle

I assume you watch Maddow. THats fine cuz I believe Judge is just too loud. THing is Maddow put on her own spin. She had a episode saying how Pence as Governor of how in Pence's state you can go to jail for lying on a marriage certificate, spilling that he is anti-gay. The thing Maddow didnt say that, lying on a any federal document is punishable by fine or jail. It wasnt just Pence and marriage certificate, its every US federal document. She spun it like he was anti-gay though

2)I will apologize first of all, cuz I presumed that you were American? To better answer your question, can I have background of have you lived in the US or is your US PoV based off just TV?

The Murdoch press is in many/most places in the English speaking world so we all get "fair and balanced" political coverage".

I actually substantially blame him and his minions for this new age of barbarism, unless he is secretly a scholar conducting a massive scientific experiment to prove the Dunning-Kruger effect. He is originally an Australian product, to the shame of many down here.