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Political Roundtable Part XI

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dckingsfan
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1001 » by dckingsfan » Sat Dec 3, 2016 3:08 pm

DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:The problem is - that great equalizer is failing us badly. I hear you on Brown v. Board - that will stay. But we can't just double down on things that are failing. We have to have competition too.

Yes, there's much work to be done to improve our public schools, especially in the inner city. But putting Betsy DeVos in charge of public education is like hiring the fox to guard the hen house. For DeVos it's never been about improving the public schools. It's always been about finding and supporting (with taxpayers' money) alternatives to public schools.

There is literally nothing the federal government has done that has help public schools. The courts, yes.

But there has been much that the federal government had done that has inhibited improvements on public schools - including Common Core Costs (Bush's stupid foray into K12 Education). What we need is a Education Secretary that stops this foolishness.

The problem is the definition. Public Schools are the monolith that supports public jobs. Not the correct definition: Public Schools are the method to get the best education to each child.

Those monolith schools by definition do a poor job educating those outside the first standard deviation. Instead of acknowledging and embracing this - the fight it. The teachers and the administrators have too much invested in their near-term interests to change.

The schools are broken and they can't be fixed without competition. It isn't that there is much to be done, it is that it can't be done.

I ask you this. Who voted for Clinton? You want more college educated voters and that isn't going to happen with the current state of schools.

And the guaranteed loan issue out of the federal government is one of the worst disasters to happen to higher education - ever!

Over the last 30 years, we literally would be in a better position if there was no U.S. Department of Education.

So, Fox in the hen house is fine by me.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1002 » by DCZards » Sat Dec 3, 2016 6:05 pm

dckingsfan wrote:There is literally nothing the federal government has done that has help public schools. The courts, yes.

But there has been much that the federal government had done that has inhibited improvements on public schools - including Common Core Costs (Bush's stupid foray into K12 Education). What we need is a Education Secretary that stops this foolishness.

The problem is the definition. Public Schools are the monolith that supports public jobs. Not the correct definition: Public Schools are the method to get the best education to each child.

Those monolith schools by definition do a poor job educating those outside the first standard deviation. Instead of acknowledging and embracing this - the fight it. The teachers and the administrators have too much invested in their near-term interests to change.

The schools are broken and they can't be fixed without competition. It isn't that there is much to be done, it is that it can't be done.

I ask you this. Who voted for Clinton? You want more college educated voters and that isn't going to happen with the current state of schools.

And the guaranteed loan issue out of the federal government is one of the worst disasters to happen to higher education - ever!

Over the last 30 years, we literally would be in a better position if there was no U.S. Department of Education.

So, Fox in the hen house is fine by me.


You clearly have bought into the right-wing propaganda about our public schools and the hard-working men and women who bust their butts everyday to educate our kids. Sad.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1003 » by dckingsfan » Sat Dec 3, 2016 6:37 pm

DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:There is literally nothing the federal government has done that has help public schools. The courts, yes.

But there has been much that the federal government had done that has inhibited improvements on public schools - including Common Core Costs (Bush's stupid foray into K12 Education). What we need is a Education Secretary that stops this foolishness.

The problem is the definition. Public Schools are the monolith that supports public jobs. Not the correct definition: Public Schools are the method to get the best education to each child.

Those monolith schools by definition do a poor job educating those outside the first standard deviation. Instead of acknowledging and embracing this - the fight it. The teachers and the administrators have too much invested in their near-term interests to change.

The schools are broken and they can't be fixed without competition. It isn't that there is much to be done, it is that it can't be done.

I ask you this. Who voted for Clinton? You want more college educated voters and that isn't going to happen with the current state of schools.

And the guaranteed loan issue out of the federal government is one of the worst disasters to happen to higher education - ever!

Over the last 30 years, we literally would be in a better position if there was no U.S. Department of Education.

So, Fox in the hen house is fine by me.


You clearly have bought into the right-wing propaganda about our public schools and the hard-working men and women who bust their butts everyday to educate our kids. Sad.

Wrong. I have bought into that the U.S. Department of Education holds back those very same teachers. I have bought into that large monolith school districts can't get out of their own way. I have bought into school choice that gives parents a choice for their children.

I am totally behind supporting the teachers - but not the apparatus that is place that holds them back.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1004 » by dckingsfan » Sat Dec 3, 2016 6:38 pm

BTW, that right-wing propaganda message is one of the things that is killing Ds. They refuse to acknowledge the failure and from that argument aren't willing to offer up fixes (other than doubling down).
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1005 » by Induveca » Sat Dec 3, 2016 7:09 pm

dckingsfan wrote:BTW, that right-wing propaganda message is one of the things that is killing Ds. They refuse to acknowledge the failure and from that argument aren't willing to offer up fixes (other than doubling down).


The "educated" American now seems to believe in any political discussion that there are only two all-encompassing sides. "Left" and "Right".

This was not the case when I first moved to the US. Believe it or not, people can pick portions of a debate they agree with from *both* sides Zards.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1006 » by AFM » Sat Dec 3, 2016 11:42 pm

Hillary Closes lead after massive hacking scandal unearthed by valiant skills stein:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-02/hillary-clinton-gains-one-vote-first-day-wisconsin-recount
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1007 » by Induveca » Sun Dec 4, 2016 1:10 am

AFM wrote:Hillary Closes lead after massive hacking scandal unearthed by valiant skills stein:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-02/hillary-clinton-gains-one-vote-first-day-wisconsin-recount


:lol:
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1008 » by Induveca » Sun Dec 4, 2016 1:20 am

Stein/Clinton officially drop Pennsylvania recount, news in WSJ as of 40 minutes ago.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/jill-stein-supporters-drop-pennsylvania-recount-suit-1480810987?client=safari

At least she made 6.5 million bucks for herself/the Green Party. What a joke, good way to ensure a hefty salary for the next 4-8 years.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1009 » by AFM » Sun Dec 4, 2016 2:48 am

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1010 » by AFM » Sun Dec 4, 2016 6:14 am

Induveca wrote:Stein/Clinton officially drop Pennsylvania recount, news in WSJ as of 40 minutes ago.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/jill-stein-supporters-drop-pennsylvania-recount-suit-1480810987?client=safari

At least she made 6.5 million bucks for herself/the Green Party. What a joke, good way to ensure a hefty salary for the next 4-8 years.


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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1011 » by closg00 » Sun Dec 4, 2016 4:01 pm

Man-baby got triggered again by SNL, imagining what his thought process must be like gives me the chills.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1012 » by Kanyewest » Sun Dec 4, 2016 8:43 pm

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1013 » by AFM » Sun Dec 4, 2016 9:03 pm

What the hell is this crackhead going on about
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1014 » by dckingsfan » Sun Dec 4, 2016 9:42 pm

So, did we miss the Trump/Taiwan thing. Does this mean he is just ignorant and doesn't read?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1015 » by verbal8 » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:03 am

dckingsfan wrote:So, did we miss the Trump/Taiwan thing. Does this mean he is just ignorant and doesn't read?


In alot of ways this is like the tape with Billy Bush. A pretty extreme example of something that there have been indications of about Trump all along.

Was there any indication during his campaign that he took foreign policy seriously? Any indication he is able to follow normal protocols of process or behavior?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1016 » by payitforward » Mon Dec 5, 2016 3:46 am

Induveca wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:BTW, that right-wing propaganda message is one of the things that is killing Ds. They refuse to acknowledge the failure and from that argument aren't willing to offer up fixes (other than doubling down).

The "educated" American now seems to believe in any political discussion that there are only two all-encompassing sides. "Left" and "Right".

This was not the case when I first moved to the US. Believe it or not, people can pick portions of a debate they agree with from *both* sides Zards.

The terms "right" and "left" don't mean much in themselves, but I think all the same that you have misidentified the problem, Induveca.

There's a poison in American political discourse, to be sure. And the country has just elected as its President someone who revels in that poison. In the wake of that event we now get to see some whack job walk into Atomic Billiards in NW DC and shoot off an assault weapon. Why? Because from that poisonous political stream I just mentioned came ugly false news stories I won't help spread by repeating them.

You refer to a "debate" presumably about issues, and picking portions of both sides of the debate to espouse. But there is no debate around policies in education, at least not that I can see, but rather just another poison stream of verbiage on the same boring subject: the so-called sclerotic institutions of so-called "big" government.

Really it's no different from its parallel poison stream about so-called corruption of e.g. Hillary Clinton. E.g. AFM, if you want to hate Hillary Clinton, go for it. But I assume you don't actually know her, which means you're just picking some abstraction on which to take out whatever is really bothering you. No problem; everybody needs a scapegoat. It's just that the whole shebang has nothing to do with any real person, any real questions of ethics, any real issues of corruption, or with anything real at all at any level. It's all just picking a symbol and piling onto it whatever intellectual and emotional freight you need to off-load. Then again, you're just one example of this, and I don't mean to pick on you about it.

Seems to me it'd be a good practic not to be bedeviled by ugly ideas -- whatever they are -- but people do what they do and think what they think. Whether that's an idiotic idea like "blacks are less intelligent than whites" or an idiotic idea like "make America great again." Or an idiotic idea like "we have a failed economy." Or "creationism" or whatever pickles your tansy.

Sorry to go on at length; it's just that this thread and all the ugliness in it kind of makes me sick.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1017 » by AFM » Mon Dec 5, 2016 5:06 am

Thanks for the preachy, overly pedantic post, as usual. The next time someone posts "man, I hate Grunfeld." I'll be sure to remind them, "you don't actually know him, so..."

So stupid.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1018 » by BigA » Mon Dec 5, 2016 12:20 pm

dckingsfan wrote:So, did we miss the Trump/Taiwan thing. Does this mean he is just ignorant and doesn't read?

There was the usual instant outrage that the media generates over Trump's doings and statements, but I'm not sure of whether there's much larger significance.

China has always been very prickly about countries observing the diplomatic formalities regarding Taiwan, not treating it as a country, etc.

Trump is still a private citizen after all, so it's not as if he can confer chief of state status on the president of Taiwan by speaking on the phone. If China objects I'll be interested to see the basis for their objection. The US still sells billions worth of weapons to Taiwan and has a security relationship, which China doesn't like either but which they have no choice but to accept.

There's a similar situation with Tibet and the Dalai Lama. They always object when a US president meets with the Dalai Lama, which W did regularly. Obama didn't until earlier this year and the Chinese objected when he did.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1019 » by dckingsfan » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:22 pm

verbal8 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:So, did we miss the Trump/Taiwan thing. Does this mean he is just ignorant and doesn't read?


In alot of ways this is like the tape with Billy Bush. A pretty extreme example of something that there have been indications of about Trump all along.

Was there any indication during his campaign that he took foreign policy seriously? Any indication he is able to follow normal protocols of process or behavior?

Probably not. Even so, this wreaks of "I just didn't know"... ignorance if you will.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XI 

Post#1020 » by dckingsfan » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:24 pm

BigA wrote:Trump is still a private citizen after all, so it's not as if he can confer chief of state status on the president of Taiwan by speaking on the phone.

That is true and the one point I missed. He is "only" president elect...

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