Is Earl Watson doing a good job?

[TeamTragic]

Just wanted to follow up on my original assessment. Watson is getting worse as the season progresses.

I've been looking for this thread because I didn't want to start a new thread but I echo your assessment.

Watson has proven nothing to me. To all those who thinks he's some breath of fresh air or that he's somehow better than Hornacek, sorry but he's brought nothing new to the table. The "family" culture is nice but other coaches have done similar things but didn't need to invoke the term family every time someone interviews him. As a coach, he's been subpar. His rotations are questionable, his in game adjustments are nothing innovative and I don't know how good he is as a motivator because I don't see much change in our players.

I agree with you 100%. The only part that Watson does well is the whole "family" culture. Everything else suggests he should be coaching a losing team. He would never cut it for a near playoff team. Not even close.

[kennydorglas]

He had 3 bright moments this year for me.

1) when he called out our bench in the first game (obviously more a statement to our vets than anything).
2) When he stole that late game play from Stotts.
3) I think we need to give him props for doing the obvious and keep TJ Warren in the starting lineup after his hot start. Hornacek probably would keep Tucker in the starting 5.

I'm still waiting for some innovative offense (that's what the hire of Jay Triano's would suppose to help our team).
In defense sometimes we came prepared for the task and in some games we just dont show up at all

[TeamTragic]

He had 3 bright moments this year for me.

1) when he called out our bench in the first game (obviously more a statement to our vets than anything).
2) When he stole that late game play from Stotts.
3) I think we need to give him props for doing the obvious and keep TJ Warren in the starting lineup after his hot start. Hornacek probably would keep Tucker in the starting 5.

I'm still waiting for some innovative offense (that's what the hire of Jay Triano's would suppose to help our team).
In defense sometimes we came prepared for the task and in some games we just dont show up at all

1. Do we actually have a bench? That seems redundant.
2. Great. That doesn't make him a good coach.
3. Watson still plays Tucker. Bender rots on the bench.

Hornacek was an awful coach who refused to play our youth. I'm not sure much has changed. I would say that Watson is about 15% better than Hornacek.

[kennydorglas]

He had 3 bright moments this year for me.

1) when he called out our bench in the first game (obviously more a statement to our vets than anything).
2) When he stole that late game play from Stotts.
3) I think we need to give him props for doing the obvious and keep TJ Warren in the starting lineup after his hot start. Hornacek probably would keep Tucker in the starting 5.

I'm still waiting for some innovative offense (that's what the hire of Jay Triano's would suppose to help our team).
In defense sometimes we came prepared for the task and in some games we just dont show up at all

1. Do we actually have a bench? That seems redundant.
2. Great. That doesn't make him a good coach.
3. Watson still plays Tucker. Bender rots on the bench.

Hornacek was an awful coach who refused to play our youth. I'm not sure much has changed. I would say that Watson is about 15% better than Hornacek.

I'm just trying to find some silver linings here. I hated the hire from day 1.
Still dont know why we hired him without interviewing anyone.

[lilfishi22]

He had 3 bright moments this year for me.

1) when he called out our bench in the first game (obviously more a statement to our vets than anything).
2) When he stole that late game play from Stotts.
3) I think we need to give him props for doing the obvious and keep TJ Warren in the starting lineup after his hot start. Hornacek probably would keep Tucker in the starting 5.

I'm still waiting for some innovative offense (that's what the hire of Jay Triano's would suppose to help our team).
In defense sometimes we came prepared for the task and in some games we just dont show up at all

1. Do we actually have a bench? That seems redundant.
2. Great. That doesn't make him a good coach.
3. Watson still plays Tucker. Bender rots on the bench.

Hornacek was an awful coach who refused to play our youth. I'm not sure much has changed. I would say that Watson is about 15% better than Hornacek.

I still don't see how Watson better than Hornacek.

Watson has taken the same approach with rookies as Hornacek. He didn't play them unless there was a need and not much in their first year. Chriss is starting because Dudley is clearly not build to play against starting 4's. Booker started played last season because we were forced to play him and he did play well. Len didn't play much in his first season under Hornacek but few could argue he was ready for a lot of minutes. TJ is the only played who was deserving of consistent minutes which he didn't get under Hornacek. Outside of that, I don't see much difference in how they handled youth.

[Qwigglez]

I would prefer a Euro coach maybe David Blatt. Not really sure Watson is a good coach. He should be player motivator or player mentor, coach should not be in his job title.

[blacksun]

He's fine for now.

[PackSuns]

Do all of you think Watson really has the final say on who does/doesn't play? It doesn't take inside knowledge to see the blatant similarities between last cpl years and this years rotations. Just giving you a different broader perspective.

[Damkac]

Suns are one of 3 teams with least assists per game. I think this shows that he is not good.

[Qwigglez]

Do all of you think Watson really has the final say on who does/doesn't play? It doesn't take inside knowledge to see the blatant similarities between last cpl years and this years rotations. Just giving you a different broader perspective.

Yes. He is ultimately the guy that decides the rotation and who is playing on a daily basis. I understand what you're saying, but as head coach Watson can change the lineup on a moment's notice.

[Zelaznyrules]

Suns are one of 3 teams with least assists per game. I think this shows that he is not good.

I think we've been near the bottom for a few years now, pre-dating Watson's hiring. We have a lot of fast breaks which tends to cut down on assists. We don't have a low post scorer which takes away one of the better opportunities for an assist. And we don't have a good pick and roll/pop big man which also limits assists. Add to that the fact that we don't have good outside shooters and our poor assist numbers come more into focus. Especially since our shortage of serious outside threats creates poor spacing which leads to our guards racking up a lot of turnovers. Maybe Watson is partly to blame but I think it's a losing cause no matter who is coaching us right now.

[thamadkant]

Watson's game plan.

Chandler or Len inside crash board when they can.
And make eye contact with guards to signal lobs.

Tucker hang out on the corners and elbows. And if you pass up a good open look to drive inside a clogged area to mess up the play its perfectly fine... Deserves more minutes that way.

Booker, Bledsoe... Take turns doing isolation plays and hopefully the ball goes in or find an open man who actually shoots it.

Knight... Do what Bledsoe and Booker did... But add 10 seconds of dribbling and attempts of cross over at the top of the key whilst everyone else watches.


Watson in a nutshell.




The suns plays are so predictable.

Also he should be on Chriss's ears scolding him for lack of effort... Young guys need to be straighten up before their bad habits become "normal" things in the pros.
Imagine if JR Smith was under Popovic or Larry Brown... Could have been an all star.


Im starting to think Watson was hired because he ticked 2 boxes.... Liked by players and cheap.

[Damkac]

I think we've been near the bottom for a few years now, pre-dating Watson's hiring. We have a lot of fast breaks which tends to cut down on assists. We don't have a low post scorer which takes away one of the better opportunities for an assist.

Warriors plays at fast pace and don't have any low post scorer but they are first in assists and mile above everyone else. So that is not a excuse
Players are part of the problem but other part is coaching.
Please, let's draft somebody who is good at passing. If not Lonzo then somebody else. Too many selfish player on this team.

[Saberestar]

I think we've been near the bottom for a few years now, pre-dating Watson's hiring. We have a lot of fast breaks which tends to cut down on assists. We don't have a low post scorer which takes away one of the better opportunities for an assist.

Warriors plays at fast pace and don't have any low post scorer but they are first in assists and mile above everyone else. So that is not a excuse
Players are part of the problem but other part is coaching.
Please, let's draft somebody who is good at passing. If not Lonzo then somebody else. Too many selfish player on this team.

The Warrios has a terrific roster, one of the best in the history of the game. We do not. That is the most important thing.

I think that Watson is making a decent job, I am OK with him. He is a motivator, and that is big for a HC, every player wants to play and fight for him. IMO that respect from the players in the best attribute that a coach can have nowadays.

About the offensive schemes...I mean, the plays that we run are classical and similar to what a lot of teams run in the NBA. Like a coach you can change some things and run especific sets here and there, but usually the systems in the league are the same with just a few changes. It is the personnel involved who makes big differences in the flow of the game and the results of the plays.

We lack great talent and players with good vision/passing to run difficult sets, our best passers are too young and raw (Ulis and Bender) to play consistent minutes and be effective out there. With time we are gonna be better at passing.

The youngsters are going to play more minutes in the next few months, and if you look the minutes played for other rookies in the league they are playing similar or even less minutes than Chriss, Bender and Ulis.

We need to remember that Watson started Booker over Knight (who is playing under 25 minutes per game) and Warren over Tucker. That's was not a sure thing in the summer.

I want to give Watson at least the full season to see if we are in good hands.

[LacosteM]

I would prefer a Euro coach maybe David Blatt. Not really sure Watson is a good coach. He should be player motivator or player mentor, coach should not be in his job title.

David is a good coach. I really felt sorry for him last year. Cavs organization constantly undermined him and players were against him from the day one and wouldn't let him implement his offensive system. Eventough they eventually won a chip I thought that the way they handled him was really embarrasing and disrespectful towards coach Blatt.

Also I'd like to add that I thought that Scotty Brooks would've been a great fit for this Suns team. I might be a little biased as I watched him coach Okc for 4 years, until they rightfully decided to part ways with him. But he's a definitely a terrific developmental coach, who always tries to put his players into a best position to succeed, also very liked by players and pretty generous with minutes towards rookies if they're ready to bring it defensively. He obviously has his flaws, but I think he'd be great for a young and upcoming team like Suns. Otto Porter seems to be shaping up nicely under him.

[PackSuns]

Do all of you think Watson really has the final say on who does/doesn't play? It doesn't take inside knowledge to see the blatant similarities between last cpl years and this years rotations. Just giving you a different broader perspective.

Yes. He is ultimately the guy that decides the rotation and who is playing on a daily basis. I understand what you're saying, but as head coach Watson can change the lineup on a moment's notice.

I agree that Watson has the green light when it comes to in game substitutions. I also know that he has a boss. Do you see similarities in the rotations from when Hornacek was here and now? I don't believe in "too many coincidences ". Watson was an interesting hire to me. Hope he isn't just a "yes man". Did we interview any other candidates? I don't know. It is a lot more complex than some think. Go Suns!!

[gaspar]

I think we've been near the bottom for a few years now, pre-dating Watson's hiring. We have a lot of fast breaks which tends to cut down on assists. We don't have a low post scorer which takes away one of the better opportunities for an assist.

Warriors plays at fast pace and don't have any low post scorer but they are first in assists and mile above everyone else. So that is not a excuse
Players are part of the problem but other part is coaching.
Please, let's draft somebody who is good at passing. If not Lonzo then somebody else. Too many selfish player on this team.

The Warrios has a terrific roster, one of the best in the history of the game. We do not. That is the most important thing.

I think that Watson is making a decent job, I am OK with him. He is a motivator, and that is big for a HC, every player wants to play and fight for him. IMO that respect from the players in the best attribute that a coach can have nowadays.

About the offensive schemes...I mean, the plays that we run are classical and similar to what a lot of teams run in the NBA. Like a coach you can change some things and run especific sets here and there, but usually the systems in the league are the same with just a few changes. It is the personnel involved who makes big differences in the flow of the game and the results of the plays.

We lack great talent and players with good vision/passing to run difficult sets, our best passers are too young and raw (Ulis and Bender) to play consistent minutes and be effective out there. With time we are gonna be better at passing.

The youngsters are going to play more minutes in the next few months, and if you look the minutes played for other rookies in the league they are playing similar or even less minutes than Chriss, Bender and Ulis.

We need to remember that Watson started Booker over Knight (who is playing under 25 minutes per game) and Warren over Tucker. That's was not a sure thing in the summer.

I want to give Watson at least the full season to see if we are in good hands.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

X's and O's, rotations etc. is something every coach can improve with more experience. Charisma is something you are born with. You can't really learn how to be a leader. Watson is a great motivator and leader. I'm not sure he's the right guy to be our coach long-term, but I think he's the right choice for this season.

There are several things he deserves some credit for:
1. He solved potentially troubling situation with Knight/Booker better than anyone could hope.

2. The team has an identity: we are playing fast and aggressively. The Suns are in top-10 in the league in:
- pace - 1st
- fast break points - 3rd
- 2nd chance points - 8th
- points in the paint - 10th
- points off turnovers - 4th
- FTA/G - 3rd
- rebound percentage - 10th (6th DefReb, 11 OffReb)
- steals - 7th
- opponents turnovers - 3rd
- loose balls recovered - 7th
- charges drawn - 4th
- screen assists - 8th

3. The Suns are among the best teams in the league in the 3rd quarter (10th in NetRtg +5.8). Locker room pep talk and half-time adjustments?

4. I don't have any stats to backs this up, but it seems that our execution out of the time-outs is be better than previously. (Perhaps It's just a matter of very low standards set by our previous 2 coaches when we had huge problems just to inbound the ball).

As for assists, when I read this forum I sometimes wonder if I'm in a parallel universe where assists are worth more than points (It must the Nash effect). In reality there's no corelation between assist numbers and efficient offense. This season the top two teams in terms of offensive efficiency are the Warriors and Raptors. Warriors are 1st in assist rate, the Raptors are 29th.

[WeekapaugGroove]

He's fine for now.

This is where im at with him. I like his temperament and think hell do a decent job keeping the teams mindset right as they go through some losing. But from an x's and o's standpoint he hasnt proven to me that he can coach at a high level but that is something young coaches can get better at. Realistically hes probably just a stop gap who gets fired in a year or two when they try to win games.

Side note ive seen some complain about his shifting rotations... i actually think he should be trying even more player groupings. When you suck like the suns you should be trying a ton of different player combinations to try and see who plays well together. For instance id give bender a couple starts just to see how he looks with the starters.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

[LacosteM]

Warriors plays at fast pace and don't have any low post scorer but they are first in assists and mile above everyone else. So that is not a excuse
Players are part of the problem but other part is coaching.
Please, let's draft somebody who is good at passing. If not Lonzo then somebody else. Too many selfish player on this team.

The Warrios has a terrific roster, one of the best in the history of the game. We do not. That is the most important thing.

I think that Watson is making a decent job, I am OK with him. He is a motivator, and that is big for a HC, every player wants to play and fight for him. IMO that respect from the players in the best attribute that a coach can have nowadays.

About the offensive schemes...I mean, the plays that we run are classical and similar to what a lot of teams run in the NBA. Like a coach you can change some things and run especific sets here and there, but usually the systems in the league are the same with just a few changes. It is the personnel involved who makes big differences in the flow of the game and the results of the plays.

We lack great talent and players with good vision/passing to run difficult sets, our best passers are too young and raw (Ulis and Bender) to play consistent minutes and be effective out there. With time we are gonna be better at passing.

The youngsters are going to play more minutes in the next few months, and if you look the minutes played for other rookies in the league they are playing similar or even less minutes than Chriss, Bender and Ulis.

We need to remember that Watson started Booker over Knight (who is playing under 25 minutes per game) and Warren over Tucker. That's was not a sure thing in the summer.

I want to give Watson at least the full season to see if we are in good hands.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

X's and O's, rotations etc. is something every coach can improve with more experience. Charisma is something you are born with. You can't really learn how to be a leader. Watson is a great motivator and leader. I'm not sure he's the right guy to be our coach long-term, but I think he's the right choice for this season.

There are several things he deserves some credit for:
1. He solved potentially troubling situation with Knight/Booker better than anyone could hope.

2. The team has an identity: we are playing fast and aggressively. The Suns are in top-10 in the league in:
- pace - 1st
- fast break points - 3rd
- 2nd chance points - 8th
- points in the paint - 10th
- points off turnovers - 4th
- FTA/G - 3rd
- rebound percentage - 10th (6th DefReb, 11 OffReb)
- steals - 7th
- opponents turnovers - 3rd
- loose balls recovered - 7th
- charges drawn - 4th
- screen assists - 8th

3. The Suns are among the best teams in the league in the 3rd quarter (10th in NetRtg +5.8). Locker room pep talk and half-time adjustments?

4. I don't have any stats to backs this up, but it seems that our execution out of the time-outs is be better than previously. (Perhaps It's just a matter of very low standards set by our previous 2 coaches when we had huge problems just to inbound the ball).

As for assists, when I read this forum I sometimes wonder if I'm in a parallel universe where assists are worth more than points (It must the Nash effect). In reality there's no corelation between assist numbers and efficient offense. This season the top two teams in terms of offensive efficiency are the Warriors and Raptors. Warriors are 1st in assist rate, the Raptors are 29th.

Saying this team has an identity is a bit of a stretch for me. It's not like Suns suddenly started playing fast paced b-ball under Watson, they were top 10 in pace for the past 3 years. Playing up-tempo is good only if you're benefiting from it which Suns clearly aren't. I mean only team that has better pace than Suns this year are the Nets, yet both teams lay in the bottom 10 in Off Eff.
The stats you provided are nice, but it seems like you trying to sugar coat for the 2 most important ones; that Suns are bottom 10 in both Def Eff and Off Eff, and also alarming stat like team's ast%.

[bwgood77]

Warriors plays at fast pace and don't have any low post scorer but they are first in assists and mile above everyone else. So that is not a excuse
Players are part of the problem but other part is coaching.
Please, let's draft somebody who is good at passing. If not Lonzo then somebody else. Too many selfish player on this team.

The Warrios has a terrific roster, one of the best in the history of the game. We do not. That is the most important thing.

I think that Watson is making a decent job, I am OK with him. He is a motivator, and that is big for a HC, every player wants to play and fight for him. IMO that respect from the players in the best attribute that a coach can have nowadays.

About the offensive schemes...I mean, the plays that we run are classical and similar to what a lot of teams run in the NBA. Like a coach you can change some things and run especific sets here and there, but usually the systems in the league are the same with just a few changes. It is the personnel involved who makes big differences in the flow of the game and the results of the plays.

We lack great talent and players with good vision/passing to run difficult sets, our best passers are too young and raw (Ulis and Bender) to play consistent minutes and be effective out there. With time we are gonna be better at passing.

The youngsters are going to play more minutes in the next few months, and if you look the minutes played for other rookies in the league they are playing similar or even less minutes than Chriss, Bender and Ulis.

We need to remember that Watson started Booker over Knight (who is playing under 25 minutes per game) and Warren over Tucker. That's was not a sure thing in the summer.

I want to give Watson at least the full season to see if we are in good hands.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

X's and O's, rotations etc. is something every coach can improve with more experience. Charisma is something you are born with. You can't really learn how to be a leader. Watson is a great motivator and leader. I'm not sure he's the right guy to be our coach long-term, but I think he's the right choice for this season.

There are several things he deserves some credit for:
1. He solved potentially troubling situation with Knight/Booker better than anyone could hope.

2. The team has an identity: we are playing fast and aggressively. The Suns are in top-10 in the league in:
- pace - 1st
- fast break points - 3rd
- 2nd chance points - 8th
- points in the paint - 10th
- points off turnovers - 4th
- FTA/G - 3rd
- rebound percentage - 10th (6th DefReb, 11 OffReb)
- steals - 7th
- opponents turnovers - 3rd
- loose balls recovered - 7th
- charges drawn - 4th
- screen assists - 8th

3. The Suns are among the best teams in the league in the 3rd quarter (10th in NetRtg +5.8). Locker room pep talk and half-time adjustments?

4. I don't have any stats to backs this up, but it seems that our execution out of the time-outs is be better than previously. (Perhaps It's just a matter of very low standards set by our previous 2 coaches when we had huge problems just to inbound the ball).

As for assists, when I read this forum I sometimes wonder if I'm in a parallel universe where assists are worth more than points (It must the Nash effect). In reality there's no corelation between assist numbers and efficient offense. This season the top two teams in terms of offensive efficiency are the Warriors and Raptors. Warriors are 1st in assist rate, the Raptors are 29th.

Great post. I don't think many coaches out there would be doing any better than Watson is, especially when you consider overall that TJ and Booker start, and all three rookies have gotten a pretty good share of playing time. I do hope that they continue to get as much time when TJ gets back (not at the expense of him but perhaps the expense of others, though I realize that might be tough to do unless trades are made).

However there is a pretty high correlation between assist rate and offensive efficiency. The others near the top (Houston, San Antonio, Cleveland, LAC) are all top 10 in assist ratio and Toronto is somewhat of an anomaly.

There is also an enormous gap between the two teams tied at 28th in assist ratio, and the last place Suns (the Suns trail them by as much as they trail the team in 12th).

Having said that, I don't think this is necessarily Watson's fault, at least not all of it. I certainly think he wants ball movement and wants people to shoot open shots.

But I believe some players are set in their ways so much that they are almost uncoachable. Knight, for example. I don't think he intentionally sets his mind out not to pass, but when he gets into the game his instincts just take over and these things can be tough to change. There is a reason Knight was traded twice during his rookie contract.

Obviously Watson could have given him the same treatment D'Antoni gave Marbury in NY (if he has full control over roster playing time), but that doesn't do anything for his trade value or add to the positive team energy he is trying to create, and he needed to give him a chance in his new role.

Basically I think assists will also be more prevalent in teams that have played together for a long time, much more so than one that is very young with players playing together for the first time (unless they are savvy vets).

I think the primary problem with assists though does not lie with Watson but with the age and roster make up, which he has no control over.

I think many fans have watched some of the best offensive orchestrators ever lead the Suns over the last 25+ years though and many love to watch great ball movement rather than ISO. While it is possible having good or great offensive efficiency with isolation play, it typically requires a great isolation player taking a large percentage of your shots. We seem to have a lot of young offensively talented players, and I think in time, if they can learn to play more team ball rather than isolation the sum can possibly be greater than it's individual parts.