Point Guard

[NuggetsWY]

And the question some have asked is growing - Mudiay?
Or time for Murray?
http://milehighsports.com/jamal-murray-not-emmanuel-mudiay-denver-nuggets-point-guard-future/

[skywalker33]

And the question some have asked is growing - Mudiay?
Or time for Murray?
http://milehighsports.com/jamal-murray-not-emmanuel-mudiay-denver-nuggets-point-guard-future/

Markelle Fultz....go ahead and start trading the vets....especially Nelson !!!

[SoCalNuggsFan]

And the question some have asked is growing - Mudiay?
Or time for Murray?
http://milehighsports.com/jamal-murray-not-emmanuel-mudiay-denver-nuggets-point-guard-future/

Markelle Fultz....go ahead and start trading the vets....especially Nelson !!!

Fultz and Murray would be a crazy backcourt, but whether you believe that the NBA lottery is rigged or that the basketball gods hate Denver, I just can't see us ever winning the lottery.

[skywalker33]

Markelle Fultz - My top choice, top 3 pick uncontested..so far
Lonzo Ball - Jason Kidd clone but ugly shot ...sounds like someone on our roster already
Dennis Smith - Super quick floor general, decisive but average shooter at best. Size could be a problem in NBA
De'Aaron Fox - Most probable to be in our range, quick, streaky shooter, good PG size

[skywalker33]

Just as teams do for their bigs, seems to me the Nuggets should hire someone to mentor Mudiay. He's got talent, court-vision and is working on that infamous hitch in his shot. If he gets better, we're back on track.....if not seems we've taken two steps back.

[Chuck Everett]

I can say for certain, you let a guy like Mudiay (or Elfrid Payton) go to San Antonio, they'd turn into an all-star. Nuggets have got to put in some type of structure. Even during their comeback last night, it was a lot of ISO play (played much harder no doubt, but too much iso).

I love Murray, but we still haven't been allowed to see him play point guard beyond a handful of minutes due to Jameer. It's annoying. If Mudiay and/or Murray aren't on the floor for any reason (barring injuries), what is the point of this season. I feel the same way for Jokic/Nurkic.

[NuggetsWY]

Just as teams do for their bigs, seems to me the Nuggets should hire someone to mentor Mudiay. He's got talent, court-vision and is working on that infamous hitch in his shot. If he gets better, we're back on track.....if not seems we've taken two steps back.

Someone that has a similar game? Someone that has been named around here? Someone like Billups?!? Sure makes sense to me!

[Mac1958]

Funny, I literally came here to start a thread asking if Mudiay is the right guy. I don't see any improvement over last year.

Not sure that Murray could be a PG, and I agree that winning the lottery for Fultz is a pipe dream and that Fox may be the best possibility.

Mudiay obviously isn't a shooter, and he seems to have regressed as a playmaker.

[NuggetsWY]

Funny, I literally came here to start a thread asking if Mudiay is the right guy. I don't see any improvement over last year.

Not sure that Murray could be a PG, and I agree that winning the lottery for Fultz is a pipe dream and that Fox may be the best possibility.

Mudiay obviously isn't a shooter, and he seems to have regressed as a playmaker.

Actually, if you look at his history, the only time Murray hasn't been a PG was during his one year at Kentucky, next Ulis who was too small to play SG. Murray played PG for the Canadian team and in high school.

[SoCalNuggsFan]

Funny, I literally came here to start a thread asking if Mudiay is the right guy. I don't see any improvement over last year.

Not sure that Murray could be a PG, and I agree that winning the lottery for Fultz is a pipe dream and that Fox may be the best possibility.

Mudiay obviously isn't a shooter, and he seems to have regressed as a playmaker.

Actually, if you look at his history, the only time Murray hasn't been a PG was during his one year at Kentucky, next Ulis who was too small to play SG. Murray played PG for the Canadian team and in high school.

I think Murray projects more as a 2 but it depends on who's in the backcourt with him. If he's gonna play point I think he needs a bigger defensive 2 playing with him.

Still holding out hope for Mudiay though, I think he's a perfect pair for Murray. Fully developed, he should be a guy that could guard 2s and put pressure on defenses by getting into the lane and open things up for Murray.

[NuggetsWY]

Funny, I literally came here to start a thread asking if Mudiay is the right guy. I don't see any improvement over last year.

Not sure that Murray could be a PG, and I agree that winning the lottery for Fultz is a pipe dream and that Fox may be the best possibility.

Mudiay obviously isn't a shooter, and he seems to have regressed as a playmaker.

Actually, if you look at his history, the only time Murray hasn't been a PG was during his one year at Kentucky, next Ulis who was too small to play SG. Murray played PG for the Canadian team and in high school.

I think Murray projects more as a 2 but it depends on who's in the backcourt with him. If he's gonna play point I think he needs a bigger defensive 2 playing with him.

Still holding out hope for Mudiay though, I think he's a perfect pair for Murray. Fully developed, he should be a guy that could guard 2s and put pressure on defenses by getting into the lane and open things up for Murray.

Murray is 6'4" - that's short for a SG and around average for a PG but you think he's too small for a PG and needs a bigger SG? Harris is 6'4" and he's the Nuggets #1 SG and he plays alongside Nelson all the time, so does Murray. Harris isn't exactly a big SG.

I'd be less concerned about his height/size at SG than at PG. I'd be more concerned about Mudiay's agility/speed at PG. He seems to be a step slow on a regular basis and Murray is energy.

[SoCalNuggsFan]

Actually, if you look at his history, the only time Murray hasn't been a PG was during his one year at Kentucky, next Ulis who was too small to play SG. Murray played PG for the Canadian team and in high school.

I think Murray projects more as a 2 but it depends on who's in the backcourt with him. If he's gonna play point I think he needs a bigger defensive 2 playing with him.

Still holding out hope for Mudiay though, I think he's a perfect pair for Murray. Fully developed, he should be a guy that could guard 2s and put pressure on defenses by getting into the lane and open things up for Murray.

Murray is 6'4" - that's short for a SG and around average for a PG but you think he's too small for a PG and needs a bigger SG? Harris is 6'4" and he's the Nuggets #1 SG and he plays alongside Nelson all the time, so does Murray. Harris isn't exactly a big SG.

I'd be less concerned about his height/size at SG than at PG. I'd be more concerned about Mudiay's agility/speed at PG. He seems to be a step slow on a regular basis and Murray is energy.

I'd be concerned in a few matchups. Westbrook, Harden, Giannis. Would be nice to be able to slide him over to guard, say Eric Gordon and have a SG who would match up better.

[NuggetsWY]

I think Murray projects more as a 2 but it depends on who's in the backcourt with him. If he's gonna play point I think he needs a bigger defensive 2 playing with him.

Still holding out hope for Mudiay though, I think he's a perfect pair for Murray. Fully developed, he should be a guy that could guard 2s and put pressure on defenses by getting into the lane and open things up for Murray.

Murray is 6'4" - that's short for a SG and around average for a PG but you think he's too small for a PG and needs a bigger SG? Harris is 6'4" and he's the Nuggets #1 SG and he plays alongside Nelson all the time, so does Murray. Harris isn't exactly a big SG.

I'd be less concerned about his height/size at SG than at PG. I'd be more concerned about Mudiay's agility/speed at PG. He seems to be a step slow on a regular basis and Murray is energy.

I'd be concerned in a few matchups. Westbrook, Harden, Giannis. Would be nice to be able to slide him over to guard, say Eric Gordon and have a SG who would match up better.

and what PG matches up well with Westbrook? That would be none and even SGs don't matchup well, thus his triple doubles
and what PG matches up well with Harden? That would be none and even SGs don't matchup well
and what PG matches up with the 6'11" Antetokounmpo? That would be none and even SGs don't matchup well
You're taking the best of the best - leaving PGs aside, it's not far to compare others to Klay Thompson or Kevin Durrant or LeBron and there are more

So you are saying Murray, whom most of his coaches used as a PG is too small/light/whatever for PG but he's big enough for SG? He might not fair too well against 6'8" Khris Middleton and how about the aforementioned 6'7" Klay Thompson or the 6'6" high leaper J.R. Smith or 6'7" Rodney Hood or 6'8" Andrew Wiggins?

I do hear what you are saying but Murray fits better at PG with some minutes at SG. Since Harris, Mudiay, Murray are all within an inch of each other, they would make a nice trio with Mudiay playing mostly PG and Harris playing SG and Murray playing both. But that's just my opinion. Oh yeah, I love having Barton at 6'6" to play some SG minutes in some games and I would not mind a 6' PG that is rocket quick to play some PG in some games. But if wishes were always granted, then every NBA team would have LeBron and Durrant and a few others we could argue over.

[SoCalNuggsFan]

Murray is 6'4" - that's short for a SG and around average for a PG but you think he's too small for a PG and needs a bigger SG? Harris is 6'4" and he's the Nuggets #1 SG and he plays alongside Nelson all the time, so does Murray. Harris isn't exactly a big SG.

I'd be less concerned about his height/size at SG than at PG. I'd be more concerned about Mudiay's agility/speed at PG. He seems to be a step slow on a regular basis and Murray is energy.

I'd be concerned in a few matchups. Westbrook, Harden, Giannis. Would be nice to be able to slide him over to guard, say Eric Gordon and have a SG who would match up better.

and what PG matches up well with Westbrook? That would be none and even SGs don't matchup well, thus his triple doubles
and what PG matches up well with Harden? That would be none and even SGs don't matchup well
and what PG matches up with the 6'11" Antetokounmpo? That would be none and even SGs don't matchup well
You're taking the best of the best - leaving PGs aside, it's not far to compare others to Klay Thompson or Kevin Durrant or LeBron and there are more

So you are saying Murray, whom most of his coaches used as a PG is too small/light/whatever for PG but he's big enough for SG? He might not fair too well against 6'8" Khris Middleton and how about the aforementioned 6'7" Klay Thompson or the 6'6" high leaper J.R. Smith or 6'7" Rodney Hood or 6'8" Andrew Wiggins?

I do hear what you are saying but Murray fits better at PG with some minutes at SG. Since Harris, Mudiay, Murray are all within an inch of each other, they would make a nice trio with Mudiay playing mostly PG and Harris playing SG and Murray playing both. But that's just my opinion. Oh yeah, I love having Barton at 6'6" to play some SG minutes in some games and I would not mind a 6' PG that is rocket quick to play some PG in some games. But if wishes were always granted, then every NBA team would have LeBron and Durrant and a few others we could argue over.

Which is why I said Mudiay would be a perfect pairing.

As far as me saying he's more of a 2, it's just his play style, not based of matchups. I think he's too good running off screens and getting catch and shoots to play point most of the time.

Me talking about what players to pair with him is just something that needs to be planned for with any tweener. We should be able to make it work but unsmartly pairing him with another undersized guard would hurt the team.

[NuggetsWY]

Me talking about what players to pair with him is just something that needs to be planned for with any tweener. We should be able to make it work but unsmartly pairing him with another undersized guard would hurt the team.

You are still missing the entire point: the Nuggets have Harris at 6'4" at SG. Everyone seems to like him there. He has a 6'7" wingspan.
Murray is 6'4" and has a 6'8" wingspan. Yet they are two smaller SGs.

So you are saying that neither Harris nor Murray should ever play with a shorter guard like Nelson? Westbrook is 6'3" and Oladipo is 6'4" so I guess OKC should not ever play them together either. Oops, too late. They made a trade just to pair them up.

Originally you seemed to say Murray was too small for PG. That doesn't make sense. If he's too small at PG next to Harris but works with Mudiay; I'm confused because Mudiay is one inch taller than Harris but has the same wingspan - a negligible difference.

Last point and I'm done: No coach wins a game by making sure his players matchup well with the other team.
They win by using their players to the best of their ability.
Use the "eye-test" and Murray & Jokic are the best passers on the Nuggets' team. Those are a Point-Center and a Point-Guard --- people that can pass.

[SoCalNuggsFan]

Me talking about what players to pair with him is just something that needs to be planned for with any tweener. We should be able to make it work but unsmartly pairing him with another undersized guard would hurt the team.

You are still missing the entire point: the Nuggets have Harris at 6'4" at SG. Everyone seems to like him there. He has a 6'7" wingspan.
Murray is 6'4" and has a 6'8" wingspan. Yet they are two smaller SGs.

So you are saying that neither Harris nor Murray should ever play with a shorter guard like Nelson? Westbrook is 6'3" and Oladipo is 6'4" so I guess OKC should not ever play them together either. Oops, too late. They made a trade just to pair them up.

Originally you seemed to say Murray was too small for PG. That doesn't make sense. If he's too small at PG next to Harris but works with Mudiay; I'm confused because Mudiay is one inch taller than Harris but has the same wingspan - a negligible difference.

Last point and I'm done: No coach wins a game by making sure his players matchup well with the other team.
They win by using their players to the best of their ability.
Use the "eye-test" and Murray & Jokic are the best passers on the Nuggets' team. Those are a Point-Center and a Point-Guard --- people that can pass.

Down for a last point and I'm done situation here, because I don't think there's any way to get any kind of resolution. But Gary Harris is much stronger and more athletic than Murray and gets abused by bigger guards. If the two of them are your backcourt, that's something that will be taken advantage of in a playoff series. Might be too early to think about things like that, but I'd rather look ahead as were talking in hypotheticals here in this thread.

[TunaFish]

Me talking about what players to pair with him is just something that needs to be planned for with any tweener. We should be able to make it work but unsmartly pairing him with another undersized guard would hurt the team.

You are still missing the entire point: the Nuggets have Harris at 6'4" at SG. Everyone seems to like him there. He has a 6'7" wingspan.
Murray is 6'4" and has a 6'8" wingspan. Yet they are two smaller SGs.

So you are saying that neither Harris nor Murray should ever play with a shorter guard like Nelson? Westbrook is 6'3" and Oladipo is 6'4" so I guess OKC should not ever play them together either. Oops, too late. They made a trade just to pair them up.

Originally you seemed to say Murray was too small for PG. That doesn't make sense. If he's too small at PG next to Harris but works with Mudiay; I'm confused because Mudiay is one inch taller than Harris but has the same wingspan - a negligible difference.

Last point and I'm done: No coach wins a game by making sure his players matchup well with the other team.
They win by using their players to the best of their ability.
Use the "eye-test" and Murray & Jokic are the best passers on the Nuggets' team. Those are a Point-Center and a Point-Guard --- people that can pass.

Down for a last point and I'm done situation here, because I don't think there's any way to get any kind of resolution. But Gary Harris is much stronger and more athletic than Murray and gets abused by bigger guards. If the two of them are your backcourt, that's something that will be taken advantage of in a playoff series. Might be too early to think about things like that, but I'd rather look ahead as were talking in hypotheticals here in this thread.

Mudiay is the future at the point guard position. You can pair him with Harris or Murray and you can switch him on defense to guarding the shooting guard. Harris is great on guarding point guards and Murray is growing on defense. Problem is that NBA shooting guards are getting pretty big. Even Mudiay will have trouble with 6'8' or above shooting guards.

On the other hand, small ball is the trend and we may see less emphasis on size and more emphasis on quickness and shooting ability.

[skywalker33]

Hard to argue with what we're seeing with Mudiay now that Harris is back.

[Chuck Everett]

I still would like to see less Jameer and more Murray handling the ball. Watching Murray just stand in the corner for several possessions in a row is infuriating. And Jameer for some reason seems on a mission to get his. Running no offense, playing bad defense, he isn't playing like an experienced vet. He was horrific tonight.

[jrob23]

As a big fan of Murray's and wishing we drafted him, what is going on with his playing time? You're a team that is acting like a they're trying to get to the playoffs but are really just pretenders. Shouldn't you be embracing your youth, taking your lumps, and developing together like most great teams do. Mudiay is just 20 y/o and he should be getting 35 mpg. Murray should be your starting SG and you let those two play/learn/develop together. Why is Nelson getting minutes? Barton? Seems to me like your only hope is for Mudiay, Murray and Jokic be the foundation of your future along with a high pick in 2017 after tanking and whatever you can get in trades for some of your decent role players. So play the kids even if it means you might lose games and get MAYBE worse production. Why the hell did you draft Murray anyway? Wouldn't Chriss, Maker, Zizic or some other wing or big be better?