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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1521 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:18 pm

Yeah placing all the lack of assists on bledsoe is silly. He has very few easy assist opportunities where he can dump it to a guy and have them make a good post move. Hell hed average a couple more assist a game if our wings made shots at even a league average percentage.

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1522 » by AtheJ415 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:24 pm

1UPZ wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:I really do feel that Milwaukee is the best place for Bledsoe. Put a scoring bulldog at the 1 next to Giannis? Man. The Bucks should be all over that. I just don't know what they have that they'd be willing to give up. Future draft picks from them just don't look that good, given their trajectory. The only non-essential young talent on their roster is Thon Maker, whom we passed on for Chriss, but whom I would accept as the foundation of a deal. Monroe, Maker, maybe Henson, and two future 1sts for Bledsoe, Tucker and maybe Chandler.

All I want for Christmas is Tyler Ulis. Blow. It. Up.




Rockets have terrible offensive front court players.
Harden averages 12 assists a game and 27 points too.

Bledsoe just doesnt have the vision and timing. He passes a second late or early. And Watson does not remedy players like Tucker passing on open shots to dribble inside the key.. Its crap basketball... Ugly to watch and results show how bad the team plays most nights. Even the wins require the other teams play worse.

Bledsoe loves his iso one on one... I know he is called Mini-Lebron..but one thing Lebron does marvelously is pass the ball creatively and without hesitation... He is 50/50 a scorer and a play maker... Bledsoe is 65 percent scorer 35 percent "passer".. Yup not even a play maker by nature. Hence he played SG next Wall at Kentucky.

Booker has better facilitating skills than Bledsoe... But he is being developed as an all rounder at the moment which has taken some toll on his shooting. He is skilled enough to be developed two ways IMO... As a Klay Thompson clone/Rich man's Reddick/Allan Houston / Michael Redd
.. Catch and shoot spot up sniper... Or a do it all player offensively like Gordon Hayward and James Harden.

Watson looks like he is pushing Booker towards the Harden and Hayward role. But he is competing with Bledsoe and Knight for ball handling roles to get there IMO.

Hence... If Suns wants to keep Bledsoe... They need to solidify Booker as the primary facilitator... And they need a dominant inside scorer to give open lanes for both Booker and Bledsoe...


Back to Watson... He has been terrible.
I mean... I do not see Suns having an identity still...

The only remarkable stat is the Suns are the highest scoring team that has the lowest assists numbers... Which indicate isolation plays and players scoring off scrappy broken offensive sets.


The rockets have Ryan freaking Anderson. I'm sorry, but he's arguably the best offensive 4 in the league for a spread out system. He's an offensive juggernaut who is only not a star because his defense is abysmal.

Also, the rockets have Harden with the ball the vast majority of the time in a Mike D'Antoni offense, which ensures lots of easy looks and lots of possessions. I'm just saying that the Rockets personnel is not offensively inept. Capela has become a good finisher around the rim, Anderson is a GREAT floor spacer, Ariza can hit open 3s, and Eric Gordon has been very good for them at the 2. Harden doesn't get extra credit for his assists. If anything I'd say his personnel and system inflate those assist numbers.

That said, Harden has always been a very good passer. He does shoot a lot, but being a good passer and a willing shooter have never been mutually exclusive.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1523 » by AtheJ415 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:31 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Yeah placing all the lack of assists on bledsoe is silly. He has very few easy assist opportunities where he can dump it to a guy and have them make a good post move. Hell hed average a couple more assist a game if our wings made shots at even a league average percentage.

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Agree. Bledsoe isn't a pass-first guy. Imo, he's pretty much balanced with a slight edge to scoring. I wonder what people really expect the last couple of years with the horrid balance in lineups that our respective coaches have chosen to inexplicably play together. For instance, a Hornacek favorite:

Bledsoe
Price
Tucker
Insert random awful 4
Chandler

I mean, that team has no prayer of hitting a shot. Bledsoe's only chance in that type of lineup is to be the scorer.

I am not a fan whatsoever about trading for the forced unselfish players everyone seems to be huge fans of (Rubio, Rondo, etc.). Those guys kill you with spacing. It hurts everyone on the floor that they play with, and while the ball movement may improve, the open shots likely won't. Advanced numbers capture this. You cannot have a non-shooting guard in today's NBA unless they are so good at getting to the rim that they are the 2nd coming of Wade. I'd be okay with Payton because he's still only 22, and so he could improve his jumper and become great. That is still possible with him. It really isn't with Rubio and Rondo these days.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1524 » by kennydorglas » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:50 pm

SVG really assigned Stanimal to the D-League
holy crap
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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1525 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:57 am

kennydorglas wrote:SVG really assigned Stanimal to the D-League
holy crap

It certainly doesnt seem to be working out in det for Stanley. Im sure the pistons dont want to give him away but i would assume they are listening to offers.

I dont really see any obvious matches with the suns. Tucker and the protected Miami pick?

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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1526 » by DirtyDez » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:13 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:SVG really assigned Stanimal to the D-League
holy crap

It certainly doesnt seem to be working out in det for Stanley. Im sure the pistons dont want to give him away but i would assume they are listening to offers.

I dont really see any obvious matches with the suns. Tucker and the protected Miami pick?

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That pick could still be in the lottery...

Stanley clashed with Miller a bit in Tucson. Quite frankly he's just not that good. Amazing body, average athlete and not very skilled.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1527 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:28 am

DirtyDez wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:SVG really assigned Stanimal to the D-League
holy crap

It certainly doesnt seem to be working out in det for Stanley. Im sure the pistons dont want to give him away but i would assume they are listening to offers.

I dont really see any obvious matches with the suns. Tucker and the protected Miami pick?

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That pick could still be in the lottery...

Stanley clashed with Miller a bit in Tucson. Quite frankly he's just not that good. Amazing body, average athlete and not very skilled.

Yeah he might be a looks like tarzan plays like jane type of player.

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1528 » by thamadkant » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:00 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
1UPZ wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:I really do feel that Milwaukee is the best place for Bledsoe. Put a scoring bulldog at the 1 next to Giannis? Man. The Bucks should be all over that. I just don't know what they have that they'd be willing to give up. Future draft picks from them just don't look that good, given their trajectory. The only non-essential young talent on their roster is Thon Maker, whom we passed on for Chriss, but whom I would accept as the foundation of a deal. Monroe, Maker, maybe Henson, and two future 1sts for Bledsoe, Tucker and maybe Chandler.

All I want for Christmas is Tyler Ulis. Blow. It. Up.




Rockets have terrible offensive front court players.
Harden averages 12 assists a game and 27 points too.

Bledsoe just doesnt have the vision and timing. He passes a second late or early. And Watson does not remedy players like Tucker passing on open shots to dribble inside the key.. Its crap basketball... Ugly to watch and results show how bad the team plays most nights. Even the wins require the other teams play worse.

Bledsoe loves his iso one on one... I know he is called Mini-Lebron..but one thing Lebron does marvelously is pass the ball creatively and without hesitation... He is 50/50 a scorer and a play maker... Bledsoe is 65 percent scorer 35 percent "passer".. Yup not even a play maker by nature. Hence he played SG next Wall at Kentucky.

Booker has better facilitating skills than Bledsoe... But he is being developed as an all rounder at the moment which has taken some toll on his shooting. He is skilled enough to be developed two ways IMO... As a Klay Thompson clone/Rich man's Reddick/Allan Houston / Michael Redd
.. Catch and shoot spot up sniper... Or a do it all player offensively like Gordon Hayward and James Harden.

Watson looks like he is pushing Booker towards the Harden and Hayward role. But he is competing with Bledsoe and Knight for ball handling roles to get there IMO.

Hence... If Suns wants to keep Bledsoe... They need to solidify Booker as the primary facilitator... And they need a dominant inside scorer to give open lanes for both Booker and Bledsoe...


Back to Watson... He has been terrible.
I mean... I do not see Suns having an identity still...

The only remarkable stat is the Suns are the highest scoring team that has the lowest assists numbers... Which indicate isolation plays and players scoring off scrappy broken offensive sets.


The rockets have Ryan freaking Anderson. I'm sorry, but he's arguably the best offensive 4 in the league for a spread out system. He's an offensive juggernaut who is only not a star because his defense is abysmal.

Also, the rockets have Harden with the ball the vast majority of the time in a Mike D'Antoni offense, which ensures lots of easy looks and lots of possessions. I'm just saying that the Rockets personnel is not offensively inept. Capela has become a good finisher around the rim, Anderson is a GREAT floor spacer, Ariza can hit open 3s, and Eric Gordon has been very good for them at the 2. Harden doesn't get extra credit for his assists. If anything I'd say his personnel and system inflate those assist numbers.

That said, Harden has always been a very good passer. He does shoot a lot, but being a good passer and a willing shooter have never been mutually exclusive.




Im actually more referring to Capela and Nene.

I know Ryan Anderson is a sharp shooter... But my comparison between Bledsoe and Harden was dependent on the centers... Len/Chandler and Capela/Nene

Front court were the wrong words.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1529 » by Kerrsed » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:14 am

Well, since Archie Goodwin was dropped from the Pelicans, it looks like he has decided to switch careers.

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1530 » by DirtyDez » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:57 am

I know, he's the best player on a 9-win team but enlighten me. Would would it take to get Wall not including Booker/Warren/17' pick...
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1531 » by DaleyBlind » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:07 am

DirtyDez wrote:I know, he's the best player on a 9-win team but enlighten me. Would would it take to get Wall not including Booker/Warren/17' pick...


Just curious. Why wouldn't you include Warren in a deal for Wall?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1532 » by Kerrsed » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:18 am

DirtyDez wrote:I know, he's the best player on a 9-win team but enlighten me. Would would it take to get Wall not including Booker/Warren/17' pick...



Pretty much what it would take to get Cousins (and then some) If Booker/Warren/2017 1st are off the table, then it would start around Bledsoe/Chriss/Bender/Len/2018 Miami 1st/2018 1st, but we would also have to take back a bad contract like Mahinmi as well.

Wall will be expensive. Too expensive.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1533 » by DaleyBlind » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:23 am

Id do Bledsoe, Warren and Miami pick for Wall in a heartbeat. Would also throw in Chriss if they insisted or another pick.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1534 » by DirtyDez » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:23 am

DaleyBlind wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:I know, he's the best player on a 9-win team but enlighten me. Would would it take to get Wall not including Booker/Warren/17' pick...


Just curious. Why wouldn't you include Warren in a deal for Wall?


I would but I figured most here wouldn't. I just think a PG with tremendous vision and handles would be huge for the offense and Booker specifically. Try to keep our pick or heavily protect it. Build and elite backcourt and look attractive to FA's. You could shoot that down by saying Wall/Beal aren't winning anything, though.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1535 » by DaleyBlind » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:27 am

DirtyDez wrote:
DaleyBlind wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:I know, he's the best player on a 9-win team but enlighten me. Would would it take to get Wall not including Booker/Warren/17' pick...


Just curious. Why wouldn't you include Warren in a deal for Wall?


I would but I figured most here wouldn't. I just think a PG with tremendous vision and handles would be huge for the offense and Booker specifically. Try to keep our pick or heavily protect it. Build and elite backcourt and look attractive to FA's.


yeah I agree, Wall and Booker would be lethal. I know a lot of guys in here have huge hard ons for Warren (which is fine) though.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1536 » by DirtyDez » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:31 am

Kerrsed wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:I know, he's the best player on a 9-win team but enlighten me. Would would it take to get Wall not including Booker/Warren/17' pick...



Pretty much what it would take to get Cousins (and then some) If Booker/Warren/2017 1st are off the table, then it would start around Bledsoe/Chriss/Bender/Len/2018 Miami 1st/2018 1st, but we would also have to take back a bad contract like Mahinmi as well.

Wall will be expensive. Too expensive.


Swap one of Chriss/Bender and the lesser attractive 18' pick for Warren.

Bledsoe
Warren
Bender or Chriss
Better of the 18' picks
Any future 1st top-3 pro

I agree his value is up there with Cousins. He's not as good but his contract situation is ideal... Also they're close buds. :)
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1537 » by bwgood77 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:33 am

DaleyBlind wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
DaleyBlind wrote:
Just curious. Why wouldn't you include Warren in a deal for Wall?


I would but I figured most here wouldn't. I just think a PG with tremendous vision and handles would be huge for the offense and Booker specifically. Try to keep our pick or heavily protect it. Build and elite backcourt and look attractive to FA's.


yeah I agree, Wall and Booker would be lethal. I know a lot of guys in here have huge hard ons for Warren (which is fine) though.


Is Wall on the block? Does Watson seem ready to move on from Bledsoe? I think the answer to both questions is no.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1538 » by Kerrsed » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:34 am

DirtyDez wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:I know, he's the best player on a 9-win team but enlighten me. Would would it take to get Wall not including Booker/Warren/17' pick...



Pretty much what it would take to get Cousins (and then some) If Booker/Warren/2017 1st are off the table, then it would start around Bledsoe/Chriss/Bender/Len/2018 Miami 1st/2018 1st, but we would also have to take back a bad contract like Mahinmi as well.

Wall will be expensive. Too expensive.


Swap one of Chriss/Bender and the lesser attractive 18' pick for Warren.

Bledsoe
Warren
Bender or Chriss
Better of the 18' picks
Any future 1st top-3 pro

I agree his value is up there with Cousins. He's not as good but his contract situation is ideal... Also they're close buds. :)


I think they would rather have the pick. They have a decent SF rotation with the Juniors (Otto Porter Jr. & Kelly Oubre Jr.).
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1539 » by DaleyBlind » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:39 am

bwgood77 wrote:
DaleyBlind wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
I would but I figured most here wouldn't. I just think a PG with tremendous vision and handles would be huge for the offense and Booker specifically. Try to keep our pick or heavily protect it. Build and elite backcourt and look attractive to FA's.


yeah I agree, Wall and Booker would be lethal. I know a lot of guys in here have huge hard ons for Warren (which is fine) though.


Is Wall on the block? Does Watson seem ready to move on from Bledsoe? I think the answer to both questions is no.


1. Of course he isnt on the block - its purely hypothetical - Wizards are not trading him.
2. Who cares what Watson (Rookie Head coach who hasn't proved a damn thing as a coach) thinks??

Again..all hypothetical.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1540 » by bwgood77 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:40 am

Kerrsed wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:

Pretty much what it would take to get Cousins (and then some) If Booker/Warren/2017 1st are off the table, then it would start around Bledsoe/Chriss/Bender/Len/2018 Miami 1st/2018 1st, but we would also have to take back a bad contract like Mahinmi as well.

Wall will be expensive. Too expensive.


Swap one of Chriss/Bender and the lesser attractive 18' pick for Warren.

Bledsoe
Warren
Bender or Chriss
Better of the 18' picks
Any future 1st top-3 pro

I agree his value is up there with Cousins. He's not as good but his contract situation is ideal... Also they're close buds. :)


I think they would rather have the pick. They have a decent SF rotation with the Juniors (Otto Porter Jr. & Kelly Oubre Jr.).


They really are not that far removed from almost making the ECF. I think with if Otto Porter keeps improving, Beal keeps balling, and Oubre improves, they may get better. If they could move their pick for Noel or something they could probably be pretty tough. I don't think they will move a guy like Wall unless they get a new GM, but they seem set at 1-3. If they lotto protect pick for Noel or something they can make playoffs or draft a center if they end up in lotto.

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