Toronto/Orlando

[Prokorov]

They have Payton, Hezonja (looking like a bust) and...Zimmerman? Yeah, they definitely need more young guys/prospects.

aaron gordan isnt a young prospect at 21?

Payton/Hezonja/Gordan are all lotto picks 21 or younger.

Fournier and Biyombo are 24, Vucevic is 26. thats like 80% of their starting lineup and first 2 guys off the bench.

they need a vet like ibaka more then they need more prospects,... especially non-lotto prospects

Typed too quick and forgot Gordon. Established players in their 5th seasons + don't count as young guys and prospects.

Payton is 23 in 2 months. Biyombo may not be 24 (acts like a vet either way). Vuc is a vet at this point.

For a team that's clearly not ready to win, they definitely need more young guys/prospects.

So payton and vucevic and founier and biyombo dont qualify as young guys but ross and wright do?

[Rapcity_11]

aaron gordan isnt a young prospect at 21?

Payton/Hezonja/Gordan are all lotto picks 21 or younger.

Fournier and Biyombo are 24, Vucevic is 26. thats like 80% of their starting lineup and first 2 guys off the bench.

they need a vet like ibaka more then they need more prospects,... especially non-lotto prospects

Typed too quick and forgot Gordon. Established players in their 5th seasons + don't count as young guys and prospects.

Payton is 23 in 2 months. Biyombo may not be 24 (acts like a vet either way). Vuc is a vet at this point.

For a team that's clearly not ready to win, they definitely need more young guys/prospects.

So payton and vucevic and founier and biyombo dont qualify as young guys but ross and wright do?

The post you responded to had Siakam/Poeltl and 2 firsts. Those count as young guys/prospects.

[ackypoo]

i would think that orlando is trying to consolidate. with that in mind, this trade makes zero sense for them.

[Troubadour]

The Raptors should focus their efforts on Millsap.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Raptors simply don't have the available assets to acquire a player like Ibaka, it's simple as that. Milsap even less. Their best approach is shedding as much salary as they can using their beloved assets to make it worth it for the other team. Then use the available cap space to try to lure a player in free agency.

[Troubadour]

Raptors simply don't have the available assets to acquire a player like Ibaka, it's simple as that. Milsap even less. Their best approach is shedding as much salary as they can using their beloved assets to make it worth it for the other team. Then use the available cap space to try to lure a player in free agency.

Funny, the Thunder offered Ibaka to the Raptors last summer for those same beloved assets. Raptors said no. Any team can make a panic trade that does not fit the trajectory of the roster if you make as lopsided as Orlando did.

Since Millsap and Ibaka are both expiring, their value is not as high as you might think.

[RightToCensor]

What does Orlando really want for Ibaka?

Just as a precursor, no team is offering a lottery pick and a young player.

[OrlandoDream]

What does Orlando really want for Ibaka?

Just as a precursor, no team is offering a lottery pick and a young player.

Which is why a trade for Ibaka is not happening. Magic have no intention to explore the trade market for him. Unless some team really wants him for a playoff run and offers young player or a top 10 pick, Magic have no intention to entertain the offer. That's how much they value Ibaka. People don't realize that oladipo was prob hennigans favorite player. To trade him was almost unimaginable. So the player you get in return, you can can damn we'll be sure that we intend to keep around.

[Colbinii]

They have Payton, Hezonja (looking like a bust) and...Zimmerman? Yeah, they definitely need more young guys/prospects.

What about Gordon?

Also, acquiring more prospects with little potential who could potentially be starting caliber players in 4-5 years is a foolish move for Orlando. They have a good coach, and we saw what he did with Indiana for 3 years (2-4 SRS team, similar to Toronto currently).
Ibaka is better than what any prospect they are getting back projects to be. Why not just keep the player who is a) A fantastic fit and b) Happy to be there? I see no reason to move Ibaka unless unrealistic value is coming back.

Indiana had far more talent than this team, so I'm not sure that's relevant.

The fact remains Orlando needs more young players/prospects. They aren't ready to win.

But none of the players they are getting in return will amount to anything close to what Ibaka has shown.Yes, I agree that Orlando is in a bad position. However, I am high on Vogel and I believe he can make the most out of the current situation with keeping Ibaka. What Orlando should be doing is compiling their "mediocre prospects" like Toronto is doing.

[Colbinii]

What does Orlando really want for Ibaka?

Just as a precursor, no team is offering a lottery pick and a young player.

Then why should they trade Ibaka? If they are getting mediocre prospects who likely won't amount to anything, why trade a good player when they can resign him?

[Rapcity_11]

What about Gordon?

Also, acquiring more prospects with little potential who could potentially be starting caliber players in 4-5 years is a foolish move for Orlando. They have a good coach, and we saw what he did with Indiana for 3 years (2-4 SRS team, similar to Toronto currently).
Ibaka is better than what any prospect they are getting back projects to be. Why not just keep the player who is a) A fantastic fit and b) Happy to be there? I see no reason to move Ibaka unless unrealistic value is coming back.

Indiana had far more talent than this team, so I'm not sure that's relevant.

The fact remains Orlando needs more young players/prospects. They aren't ready to win.

But none of the players they are getting in return will amount to anything close to what Ibaka has shown.Yes, I agree that Orlando is in a bad position. However, I am high on Vogel and I believe he can make the most out of the current situation with keeping Ibaka. What Orlando should be doing is compiling their "mediocre prospects" like Toronto is doing.

It's a general point about the state of Orlando. Orlando doesn't even have any middling prospects.

[Colbinii]

Indiana had far more talent than this team, so I'm not sure that's relevant.

The fact remains Orlando needs more young players/prospects. They aren't ready to win.

But none of the players they are getting in return will amount to anything close to what Ibaka has shown.Yes, I agree that Orlando is in a bad position. However, I am high on Vogel and I believe he can make the most out of the current situation with keeping Ibaka. What Orlando should be doing is compiling their "mediocre prospects" like Toronto is doing.

It's a general point about the state of Orlando. Orlando doesn't even have any middling prospects.

Do you consider those Raptors players "middling prospects" or "low-level"? Because AG is, to me, ahead of all assets acquired in this proposed trade.

[Rapcity_11]

But none of the players they are getting in return will amount to anything close to what Ibaka has shown.Yes, I agree that Orlando is in a bad position. However, I am high on Vogel and I believe he can make the most out of the current situation with keeping Ibaka. What Orlando should be doing is compiling their "mediocre prospects" like Toronto is doing.

It's a general point about the state of Orlando. Orlando doesn't even have any middling prospects.

Do you consider those Raptors players "middling prospects" or "low-level"? Because AG is, to me, ahead of all assets acquired in this proposed trade.

Gordon is a cut above. I'm also not sure what the difference is between middling and low-level. And again, I'm making a general point about Orlando. Not talking about the proposed trade at all.

[Colbinii]

It's a general point about the state of Orlando. Orlando doesn't even have any middling prospects.

Do you consider those Raptors players "middling prospects" or "low-level"? Because AG is, to me, ahead of all assets acquired in this proposed trade.

Gordon is a cut above. I'm also not sure what the difference is between middling and low-level. And again, I'm making a general point about Orlando. Not talking about the proposed trade at all.

Sure. I do agree with that; Orlando is in a...very bad place. However, I personally believe the best thing they can do is resign Ibaka, look to move one of their other centers in conjunction with Hezonja or AG for an upgrade at the 3 or PG position.

I am firmly against moving Ibaka unless it is a no-brainer deal.

[Rapcity_11]

Do you consider those Raptors players "middling prospects" or "low-level"? Because AG is, to me, ahead of all assets acquired in this proposed trade.

Gordon is a cut above. I'm also not sure what the difference is between middling and low-level. And again, I'm making a general point about Orlando. Not talking about the proposed trade at all.

Sure. I do agree with that; Orlando is in a...very bad place. However, I personally believe the best thing they can do is resign Ibaka, look to move one of their other centers in conjunction with Hezonja or AG for an upgrade at the 3 or PG position.

I am firmly against moving Ibaka unless it is a no-brainer deal.

I'd trade Ibaka for the most lottery tickets I can get (not something like this package). They have too many holes to fill and don't have the assets to fill all of them. Signing Ibaka seems like a move to lock them into being at best, a low-level playoff team.

[Colbinii]

Gordon is a cut above. I'm also not sure what the difference is between middling and low-level. And again, I'm making a general point about Orlando. Not talking about the proposed trade at all.

Sure. I do agree with that; Orlando is in a...very bad place. However, I personally believe the best thing they can do is resign Ibaka, look to move one of their other centers in conjunction with Hezonja or AG for an upgrade at the 3 or PG position.

I am firmly against moving Ibaka unless it is a no-brainer deal.

I'd trade Ibaka for the most lottery tickets I can get (not something like this package). They have too many holes to fill and don't have the assets to fill all of them. Signing Ibaka seems like a move to lock them into being at best, a low-level playoff team.

Sure, but I disagree with that philosophy. Basically, Orlando would have to spend 2-3 years to just bottom out, then another 3-4 years trying to hit on a player, and then it is 2025, no coach wants to go there, and they could end up like Philly with both young prospects being injury-prone.

[Rapcity_11]

Sure. I do agree with that; Orlando is in a...very bad place. However, I personally believe the best thing they can do is resign Ibaka, look to move one of their other centers in conjunction with Hezonja or AG for an upgrade at the 3 or PG position.

I am firmly against moving Ibaka unless it is a no-brainer deal.

I'd trade Ibaka for the most lottery tickets I can get (not something like this package). They have too many holes to fill and don't have the assets to fill all of them. Signing Ibaka seems like a move to lock them into being at best, a low-level playoff team.

Sure, but I disagree with that philosophy. Basically, Orlando would have to spend 2-3 years to just bottom out, then another 3-4 years trying to hit on a player, and then it is 2025, no coach wants to go there, and they could end up like Philly with both young prospects being injury-prone.

I think they could jump start a rebuild pretty quick by trading Fournier, Ibaka and Vucevic.

It's not an ideal choice. It is however, better than toiling in the 11-8 range in the East.

[Colbinii]

I'd trade Ibaka for the most lottery tickets I can get (not something like this package). They have too many holes to fill and don't have the assets to fill all of them. Signing Ibaka seems like a move to lock them into being at best, a low-level playoff team.

Sure, but I disagree with that philosophy. Basically, Orlando would have to spend 2-3 years to just bottom out, then another 3-4 years trying to hit on a player, and then it is 2025, no coach wants to go there, and they could end up like Philly with both young prospects being injury-prone.

I think they could jump start a rebuild pretty quick by trading Fournier, Ibaka and Vucevic.

It's not an ideal choice. It is however, better than toiling in the 11-8 range in the East.

This is true. I don't disagree with this, I just think we have different philosophies on how to handle the situation.

Assuming they move all of them, realistically, what do you expect they could get?

Fournier: 10-14 lotto
Ibaka: 7-12 lotto
Vucevic: Tank Commander!

[Skin]

T. Ross + Bebe + LAC 1st round Pick for Ibaka

Is this serious?

If so, how about M. Hezonja + Zimmerman + LAL 1st round Pick for Lowry?

[Asif16]

Raptors simply don't have the available assets to acquire a player like Ibaka, it's simple as that. Milsap even less. Their best approach is shedding as much salary as they can using their beloved assets to make it worth it for the other team. Then use the available cap space to try to lure a player in free agency.

Lol try again buddy.

OKC wanted to make a deal with us before you guys. They wanted Joseph, Patterson, Powell and Picks. If masai had agreed to that ridiculous proposal, Ibaka wouldnt be in a magic uniform right now.