Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

[fatlever]

Basketball twitter isn't the best place if independent thought is the goal. We all have biases but Twitter is inherently built on seeking approval and confirmation. Real-time it's even lazier and sometimes downright gross.

No doubt, just pointing out that last night seemed to be the most Frank hate I've seen online since draft night.

[Chuck Everett]

Guy hasn't been playing well. They have a right to voice their criticism. The only thing Frank can do is play better. It was hard watching Myles out there and wonder what could have been with him next to Cody.

[yosemiteben]

Frank's on/off stats are benefited in the off court category due to Clifford's insistence on playing the Hawes-Hibbert front court that has been disastrous.

A better way of measuring it is looking at the discrepancy of the starting unit with Frank on the court vs with Marv on the court.

Frank at PF with the starters is a -3.2 net rating (99.3 OFFRTG, 102.5 DEFRTG) and that lineup has played together the 2nd most minutes of any lineup this season.

Marv at PF with the starters is a +13.1 net rating (107.5 OFFRTG, 94.4 DEFRTG) and that lineup has played the most minutes of any lineup this season.

That's a difference of -15.9 with Frank on the court instead of Marv.

I think it's a matter of it not being static. In Dec. that lineup of Frank with the starters had a +8.8 net rating in 52 minutes, while in November it was -16.9 in 41 minutes. Switch Belinelli for MKG in Nov. and you have a +32.8 lineup in 35 minutes. We're dealing with small sample sizes and non-uniform performance with the same lineups.

I definitely don't dispute that Frank is slumping hard the past few games and it's affected our play. With that said, I also think folks are overreacting a bit.

[Mystical Apples]

Basketball twitter isn't the best place if independent thought is the goal. We all have biases but Twitter is inherently built on seeking approval and confirmation. Real-time it's even lazier and sometimes downright gross.

No doubt, just pointing out that last night seemed to be the most Frank hate I've seen online since draft night.

Why? Cause "just pointing out" is a softener for what appears to be a motivated appeal to authority (to twitter no less). Like, own your opinion or don't.

Glad those tweets were posted though.

[catch20two]

I definitely don't dispute that Frank is slumping hard the past few games and it's affected our play. With that said, I also think folks are overreacting a bit.

Overreacting? Lol. There ain't no overreacting when a 7fter is shooting 37% from the field and 28% from deep and he isn't reluctant to shoot and the coach keep giving him consistent minutes and his defense has been a sieve.

[mrknowitall215]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[fatlever]

Basketball twitter isn't the best place if independent thought is the goal. We all have biases but Twitter is inherently built on seeking approval and confirmation. Real-time it's even lazier and sometimes downright gross.

No doubt, just pointing out that last night seemed to be the most Frank hate I've seen online since draft night.

Why? Cause "just pointing out" is a softener for what appears to be a motivated appeal to authority (to twitter no less). Like, own your opinion or don't.

Glad those tweets were posted though.

I think I have been pretty clear about my opinions about Frank's play over the past few weeks. It's not good enough. He's been incredibly disappointing recently. Frank playing poorly will always illicit a lot of sour reactions among lifelong Hornets fans due to how controversial the pick was and still is.

[yosemiteben]

I definitely don't dispute that Frank is slumping hard the past few games and it's affected our play. With that said, I also think folks are overreacting a bit.

Overreacting? Lol. There ain't no overreacting when a 7fter is shooting 37% from the field and 28% from deep and he isn't reluctant to shoot and the coach keep giving him consistent minutes and his defense has been a sieve.

Yeah overreacting. There are pluses in his play. You are acting like it's only been terrible. He's posting an elite a:to ratio for a big and has excellent court awareness as far as finding his teammates. At times he's looked excellent. He has a much more significant role he's carrying compared to last season (usage way up), and he carries much more playmaking and offensive responsibilities on the floor than guys like Marv, Cody, and MKG have ever been asked to handle.

He's in a tough stretch, but his season on the whole isn't all bad and I expect him to pull out of it.

[fatlever]

I've been equally annoyed and vocal about MKG, Sessions, Hibbert and Hawes at times this season. I'd post more tweets of Hornets fans ripping those guys, except no Hornet causes as much negative reaction as Frank does. Until Frank, without a doubt, proves all the naysayers wrong, he's going to be a lightning rod when he plays poorly. That's just the reality of his situation, based on how that draft went down. Us getting dumped on by Turner of all people, at the same time Frank had maybe his worst game of the season, just made for the perfect storm of reactions about Frank.

Cody caught hell for 4 years after his draft, because he was drafted higher than most expected and he had a slow start to his career. Cody is just, this year, finally causing his haters to shut up. Hopefully Frank can do the same, sooner than later.

Right now its Frank's turn to catch hell.

[catch20two]

I definitely don't dispute that Frank is slumping hard the past few games and it's affected our play. With that said, I also think folks are overreacting a bit.

Overreacting? Lol. There ain't no overreacting when a 7fter is shooting 37% from the field and 28% from deep and he isn't reluctant to shoot and the coach keep giving him consistent minutes and his defense has been a sieve.

Yeah overreacting. There are pluses in his play. You are acting like it's only been terrible. He's posting an elite a:to ratio for a big and has excellent court awareness as far as finding his teammates. At times he's looked excellent. He has a much more significant role he's carrying compared to last season (usage way up), and he carries much more playmaking and offensive responsibilities on the floor than guys like Marv, Cody, and MKG have ever been asked to handle.

He's in a tough stretch, but his season on the whole isn't all bad and I expect him to pull out of it.

[fatlever]

@Catch - I'm sure you can come up with a better response than the rolls eyes face. Or just don't respond at all.

[HornetJail]

I'm going to be honest here. Outside of a few games here and there, Frank has given us very little to be happy about. I don't care about the funky drives to the basket right now - he was brought here to be a good 3-point shooter and our stretch 4 of the future. He's attempting a 3 every six minutes of game time and knocking them down at a scorching rate of 28% and it's concerning. He's posting a TS% of 46.

[fatlever]

Part of my issues with Frank aren't even his fault. He has no business trying to match up vs small forwards, like what we have seen recently. That's on Clifford. If Clifford can't figure out a way to exploit those matchups in Frank's favor, then why keep leaving him out there in those situations?

[yosemiteben]

I agree that it's been annoying having him crossmatched, but at the same time that's supposed to be part of his value at least on offense and he's got to be able to punish smaller guys in the paint. He seemed to recognize that last game and tried to go to work but he was no where close to finishing. Frustrating, but did seem like a perfect opportunity to go small.

I think he's shook right now, he just needs some time to get his mind right.

[catch20two]

Kid Frankie could use a bit of tough love and be held accountable. I think it bothers me most not that he continues to miss open 3s at a bad clip and trust me that is very annoying but that Clifford insists on playing him 20+ consistent minutes every game regardless of how bad he is on one or both ends of the floor.

[Braggins]

I'm not really worried about his shooting slump. What worries me is what I perceive as regression on defense. I remember being impressed quite often last season at Franks ability to stay in front of smaller and seemingly faster opponents. This made it easy to envision his role on an NBA team. He seemed like a guy that would be able to hold his own defensively when teams go small and exploit size mismatches with his post game, while functioning as a floor spacer when matched up against more traditional bigs. This season it seems like he can't stay in front of anybody on the perimeter. I don't know if its purely a change in my perception, or maybe he isn't handling the extra bulk he allegedly added this summer and it is slowing him down (and disturbingly not seeming to make him any stronger). It basically seems like he can't guard anywhere/anyone at this point and when you throw in a horrible shooting slump its not going to look pretty. When you also factor in his age it is pretty easy to lose hope in his prospects. Its getting kind of difficult to imagine him getting strong enough while maintaining adequate mobility. Seems like if he bulks up he still isn't going to really be strong enough to be a center and he already looks too slow to be a PF.

[catch20two]

No excuses. When Lil Kemba was shooting sub 40% while being like our only offensive option we ripped him to shreds therefore Big Frank is gonna get torn to smitherines!

[catch20two]

And Frank is shooting this bad while being wide open 75% of the time.

[Mystical Apples]

And Frank is shooting this bad while being wide open 75% of the time.

75% would be quite low for most PF/C 3-point shooters 90% is likely more accurate. But if shock effect is the goal then yes, golf clap on "WIDE OPEN" or "OPEN."

[Mystical Apples]

Going through some tweets Fats shared. Feel free to chime in if any of these are yours.

Read on Twitter

An RPM of -0.19 to be exact. Guessing he knew this but the tweet isn't fun unless context is removed. But citation means owning it even when it's less convenient.

RPM: 134th, 33 for PF's
RPM Wins: 115th, 26 for PF's.
Chart is for all 4's and 5's.