Where is Jahlil Okafor?

[TTP]

Embiid is clearly better. Noel "positive" advanced statistics are not all that impressive really.

Totally.

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How many centers do you think averaged the kind of PPG Okafor did his rookie year? Anyone can cherry pick certain stats that fits a certain narrative.

9 other players. 7 of which were Hall of Famers plus Bill Cartwright and Ray Felix. However, all 9 finished with at least 8.2 winshares their rookie season. Okafor finished with 1.2. Win shares is a poor statistic. Unfortunately, they don't have other advanced stats available for most of those guys, but Okafor's season was very clearly the worst of that group.

I'm curious what stats you can cherry pick to make Okafor the top 2 of anything in NBA history though. I do know of at least one stat that has Okafor as the worst Center in the league last year and second worst this year (0.01 ahead of Mozgov). Not coincidentally, this would be my stat of choice if I were forced to reduce performance to one stat, so it's not exactly cherry picked.

[Unbreakable99]

Embiid is clearly better. Noel "positive" advanced statistics are not all that impressive really.

Totally.

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How many centers do you think averaged the kind of PPG Okafor did his rookie year? Anyone can cherry pick certain stats that fits a certain narrative.

Lol at looking at ppg.

[Negrodamus]

Embiid is clearly better. Noel "positive" advanced statistics are not all that impressive really.

Totally.

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How many centers do you think averaged the kind of PPG Okafor did his rookie year? Anyone can cherry pick certain stats that fits a certain narrative.

I wasn't referencing his, insane mind you, spg and bpg. I was actually arguing your point about overrated advanced statistics which drew parallels to David Robinson.

If you'd like, I'm sure I can find some rookie/sophomore centers that share the same nightmare BPM (especially offensive) as Okafor. Spoiler alert: they won't be HOFers.

[Ericb5]

Porzingis would look light years better than Okafor on this same roster too. Okafor and Porzingis are on different levels. One is going to be a top 10 players soon. The other will be a bench player.

I don't see Porzingis being a top 10 player, but the point is that Embiid IS, and that is a different level than both of them. Someone tried to use Embiid's success with the same teammates as Okafor as evidence that Okafor should be able to have the same success.

Embiid is so great that he can make it work with anyone, and neither Porzingis nor Okafor will be able to do that, even if Porzingis is better than Okafor.




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I'd be surprised if Porzingis weren't a top 10 player at some point in his career, potentially within a few years. I would not be surprised if he peaked around top 5.

I don't know if it is because he is white, but he is being way overrated. He is a tall athletic shooter that blocks shots. He isn't a rebounder, defender, or passer. Unless he puts on 30-40 pounds he won't be able to play center.

Towns, Davis, Simmons, and Embiid are the types of players that you are talking about. Porzingis is a Paul George, Derozan, Carmelo Anthony type of guy to me. An all star some day, but not the type of guy that carries a franchise or challenges for an MVP award. That is what I think of as a franchise player. A player that can carry a team to contending, and is in the mix for the MVP award.

George, Derozan, or Melo will never get close to an MVP, but they are still considered stars. Lillard is another one.



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[spikeslovechild]

No center has made it to the HOF or had an allstar selection having OBPM equal or worse then Noel's combined rookie and sophomore seasons.

[Unbreakable99]

I don't see Porzingis being a top 10 player, but the point is that Embiid IS, and that is a different level than both of them. Someone tried to use Embiid's success with the same teammates as Okafor as evidence that Okafor should be able to have the same success.

Embiid is so great that he can make it work with anyone, and neither Porzingis nor Okafor will be able to do that, even if Porzingis is better than Okafor.




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I'd be surprised if Porzingis weren't a top 10 player at some point in his career, potentially within a few years. I would not be surprised if he peaked around top 5.

I don't know if it is because he is white, but he is being way overrated. He is a tall athletic shooter that blocks shots. He isn't a rebounder, defender, or passer. Unless he puts on 30-40 pounds he won't be able to play center.

Towns, Davis, Simmons, and Embiid are the types of players that you are talking about. Porzingis is a Paul George, Derozan, Carmelo Anthony type of guy to me. An all star some day, but not the type of guy that carries a franchise or challenges for an MVP award. That is what I think of as a franchise player. A player that can carry a team to contending, and is in the mix for the MVP award.

George, Derozan, or Melo will never get close to an MVP, but they are still considered stars. Lillard is another one.



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George is a top ten player. He is a franchise player.

[TTP]

I don't see Porzingis being a top 10 player, but the point is that Embiid IS, and that is a different level than both of them. Someone tried to use Embiid's success with the same teammates as Okafor as evidence that Okafor should be able to have the same success.

Embiid is so great that he can make it work with anyone, and neither Porzingis nor Okafor will be able to do that, even if Porzingis is better than Okafor.




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I'd be surprised if Porzingis weren't a top 10 player at some point in his career, potentially within a few years. I would not be surprised if he peaked around top 5.

I don't know if it is because he is white, but he is being way overrated. He is a tall athletic shooter that blocks shots. He isn't a rebounder, defender, or passer. Unless he puts on 30-40 pounds he won't be able to play center.

Towns, Davis, Simmons, and Embiid are the types of players that you are talking about. Porzingis is a Paul George, Derozan, Carmelo Anthony type of guy to me. An all star some day, but not the type of guy that carries a franchise or challenges for an MVP award. That is what I think of as a franchise player. A player that can carry a team to contending, and is in the mix for the MVP award.

George, Derozan, or Melo will never get close to an MVP, but they are still considered stars. Lillard is another one.



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He's only 21 and scoring 20+ ppg with great efficiency. He has among the lowest turnover rates and highest block rates for his position. He's crushing RPM for the second straight year. You say he isn't a defender but he's grading average to above average for his position defensively after grading extremely well defensively last season (10th in DRPM for PFs).

Towns, Davis, Simmons, and Embiid are all guys that I think can and maybe will be top 5 players at their peak.

Paul George is someone else that will also likely peak around top 5 and already has been a top 10 player (I had him around 7th-8th heading into the season). Carmelo likely peaked in the top 10 as well. If you're saying that Porzingis is on those guy's levels, then you agree with me in saying that he has a good chance in being a top 10 player. Derozan is nowhere near top 10 and is among the most overrated players in the league - he's nowhere near Paul George.

I'd expect Porzingis to be a perennial All-Star, which you can certainly be without being a top 5 player or MVP candidate. Heading into the season, I thought he would peak as a #2 on a championship team, a likely top 10 player at his peak but unlikely to end up top 5. I've slightly readjusted and think he has a slightly better chance than I previously expected.

[TTP]

No center has made it to the HOF or had an allstar selection having OBPM equal or worse then Noel's combined rookie and sophomore seasons.

Doubt anyone is arguing that Noel will be an All-Star or HOF level player so what's your point?

[Negrodamus]

No center has made it to the HOF or had an allstar selection having OBPM equal or worse then Noel's combined rookie and sophomore seasons.

Wrong, Ben Wallace (-8.1 rookie, -3.1 sophomore). Took me thirty seconds. I can see none of your points are backed with stats. Oh well.

[dorkestra]

I say we showcase Okafor while bringing Noel off the bench. Trade Okafor at the deadline or in the offseason and re-sign Noel even if for the max.

[TTP]

No center has made it to the HOF or had an allstar selection having OBPM equal or worse then Noel's combined rookie and sophomore seasons.

Wrong, Ben Wallace (-8.1 rookie, -3.1 sophomore). Took me thirty seconds. I can see none of your points are backed with stats. Oh well.

Chris Kaman too.

[Negrodamus]

No center has made it to the HOF or had an allstar selection having OBPM equal or worse then Noel's combined rookie and sophomore seasons.

Wrong, Ben Wallace (-8.1 rookie, -3.1 sophomore). Took me thirty seconds. I can see none of your points are backed with stats. Oh well.

Chris Kaman too.

Rudy Gobert almost did it all in one season (rookie: -6.1)

Tyson Chandler was close (-3.6; -1.5)

DeAndre Jordan did it big time (-4.7; -3.9)

Hassan Whiteside was miserable in a small sample size (-6.5; -6.4).

[Negrodamus]

Funniest of all is that Okafor had -2.6 and -3.4 OBPM and that's his area of expertise. At least Nerlens finished with a positive BPM overall.

[76ciology]

Funniest of all is that Okafor had -2.6 and -3.4 OBPM and that's his area of expertise. At least Nerlens finished with a positive BPM overall.

Yup. And between improving his defense and offense, I think he'll have an easier time improving his offense. Which could be a better problem to have.

[SelfishPlayer]

Some Sixers fans will continue to tie Porzingis to the hip of Okafor and even go as far as to say that their idol (Hinkie) really wanted to draft Porzingis but he was prevented from doing so, which is a lie. Porzingis is a hell of a player but he has always played with bonafied NBA players. Okafor has had to play with guards like TJ, Sergio, Ish Smith, Stauskas, Henderson. I think that the Sixers fans that are fixated with the success of Porzingis really get off on ignoring the garbage Okafor has had to play with. Okafor has had to develop on a team that Sixers fans willingly admit has been in tank mode. The Knicks haven't been in tank mode with Porzingis on the roster. The Knicks acquired bonafied NBA vets with playoff experience in Rose and Noah to go with Carmelo. The Sixers acquire vets like Henderson and tell him to lead the team. No one respects his career!

[FKAri]

I don't think the Okafor/Embiid opening can work but I saw some good things from Jah.

I don't see Porzingis being a top 10 player, but the point is that Embiid IS, and that is a different level than both of them. Someone tried to use Embiid's success with the same teammates as Okafor as evidence that Okafor should be able to have the same success.

Embiid is so great that he can make it work with anyone, and neither Porzingis nor Okafor will be able to do that, even if Porzingis is better than Okafor.




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I'd be surprised if Porzingis weren't a top 10 player at some point in his career, potentially within a few years. I would not be surprised if he peaked around top 5.

I don't know if it is because he is white, but he is being way overrated. He is a tall athletic shooter that blocks shots. He isn't a rebounder, defender, or passer. Unless he puts on 30-40 pounds he won't be able to play center.

Towns, Davis, Simmons, and Embiid are the types of players that you are talking about. Porzingis is a Paul George, Derozan, Carmelo Anthony type of guy to me. An all star some day, but not the type of guy that carries a franchise or challenges for an MVP award. That is what I think of as a franchise player. A player that can carry a team to contending, and is in the mix for the MVP award.

George, Derozan, or Melo will never get close to an MVP, but they are still considered stars. Lillard is another one.



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Porzingis is rated the #1 rim protector in the league. I watched his recent Laker game and it was the best rim protection performance I've seen from anyone this season. His problem is strength. He can't check physical C's and cant back down anyone in the post. That being said I don't know what his projection really is. He might just max out at that level your suggesting but he might have a chance to be something more.

[spikeslovechild]

Wrong, Ben Wallace (-8.1 rookie, -3.1 sophomore). Took me thirty seconds. I can see none of your points are backed with stats. Oh well.

Chris Kaman too.

Rudy Gobert almost did it all in one season (rookie: -6.1)

Tyson Chandler was close (-3.6; -1.5)

DeAndre Jordan did it big time (-4.7; -3.9)

Hassan Whiteside was miserable in a small sample size (-6.5; -6.4).

Weird I plugged it into BR and came up with nothing. Must be using the All star selections just from those two seasons.

[Unbreakable99]

Some Sixers fans will continue to tie Porzingis to the hip of Okafor and even go as far as to say that their idol (Hinkie) really wanted to draft Porzingis but he was prevented from doing so, which is a lie. Porzingis is a hell of a player but he has always played with bonafied NBA players. Okafor has had to play with guards like TJ, Sergio, Ish Smith, Stauskas, Henderson. I think that the Sixers fans that are fixated with the success of Porzingis really get off on ignoring the garbage Okafor has had to play with. Okafor has had to develop on a team that Sixers fans willingly admit has been in tank mode. The Knicks haven't been in tank mode with Porzingis on the roster. The Knicks acquired bonafied NBA vets with playoff experience in Rose and Noah to go with Carmelo. The Sixers acquire vets like Henderson and tell him to lead the team. No one respects his career!

Embiid played with the same guards except Ish. Stop with the excuses for Okafor.

[CoreyGallagher]

Our offense isn't great with Embiid either, tho. 99.3 ORtg (would rank 27th) that's better than Okafor's 94.9 for the season (considerably last), but still leaves much to be desired.

(To Okafor's credit, his on ORtg since November 26th has been 101.8, but even that would only rank 21st)

[SelfishPlayer]

Some Sixers fans will continue to tie Porzingis to the hip of Okafor and even go as far as to say that their idol (Hinkie) really wanted to draft Porzingis but he was prevented from doing so, which is a lie. Porzingis is a hell of a player but he has always played with bonafied NBA players. Okafor has had to play with guards like TJ, Sergio, Ish Smith, Stauskas, Henderson. I think that the Sixers fans that are fixated with the success of Porzingis really get off on ignoring the garbage Okafor has had to play with. Okafor has had to develop on a team that Sixers fans willingly admit has been in tank mode. The Knicks haven't been in tank mode with Porzingis on the roster. The Knicks acquired bonafied NBA vets with playoff experience in Rose and Noah to go with Carmelo. The Sixers acquire vets like Henderson and tell him to lead the team. No one respects his career!

Embiid played with the same guards except Ish. Stop with the excuses for Okafor.

That's very true, but Embiid also hasn't been playing out of position like Okafor. Okafor looks like a much better player when he is put at the PF position paired with a skilled big man and not a wimpy stretch 4.