2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

[Triples333]

Might be time to enter Kawhi back into the talks. By far the best player on his squad on both ends for a 20-5 team. If they end up with the leagues best record over the Warriors he'd have a pretty strong case himself.

There's no case for Leonard at all. After a hot start he quickly cooled down and is putting up pedestrian stats for a would-be MVP.

That's far too dismissive.
His potential case is "best player on the best team", and he's putting up a highly efficient 25 PPG with a PER of 27 and WS/48 of .247 as the reigning b2b DPOY. Its nothing to scoff at and he belongs in the top 5 discussion right now (haven't seen his name once the past month). .5 games behind Golden State. It's impressive.

[Tritodian]

Might be time to enter Kawhi back into the talks. By far the best player on his squad on both ends for a 20-5 team. If they end up with the leagues best record over the Warriors he'd have a pretty strong case himself.

There's no case for Leonard at all. After a hot start he quickly cooled down and is putting up pedestrian stats for a would-be MVP.

yeah, even if you look at his advanced stats, it's really not that great. And let's be honest, Kawhi is not that much better than LaMarcus Aldridge offensively; I know LMA is having a down year, but he's still one of the top PFs in the game. To me, there are legit four MVP candidates as of now - Durant, Harden, Westbrook and CP3. Kawhi, Curry and LeBron would fall into the next tier "possible, but not likely" group.

[Tritodian]

Might be time to enter Kawhi back into the talks. By far the best player on his squad on both ends for a 20-5 team. If they end up with the leagues best record over the Warriors he'd have a pretty strong case himself.

There's no case for Leonard at all. After a hot start he quickly cooled down and is putting up pedestrian stats for a would-be MVP.

That's far too dismissive.
His potential case is "best player on the best team", and he's putting up a highly efficient 25 PPG with a PER of 27 and WS/48 of .247 as the reigning b2b DPOY. Its nothing to scoff at and he belongs in the top 5 discussion right now (haven't seen his name once the past month). .5 games behind Golden State. It's impressive.

If SAS surpass GSW in standings, then Kawhi absolutely has a case; the question is the likelihood of that actually happening, which is probably very slim.

Kawhi is currently 7th in WS and WS/48, 8th in PER, 9th in Real Plus Minus, and 10th in VORP. His traditional stat line (25-6-3) is somewhat underwhelming for a MVP candidate, despite its efficiency. If the Spurs end up as a 2nd or 3rd seed, Kawhi has no chance; but if they do surpass the Warriors, then he would probably become the favorite to win.

[Triples333]

There's no case for Leonard at all. After a hot start he quickly cooled down and is putting up pedestrian stats for a would-be MVP.

That's far too dismissive.
His potential case is "best player on the best team", and he's putting up a highly efficient 25 PPG with a PER of 27 and WS/48 of .247 as the reigning b2b DPOY. Its nothing to scoff at and he belongs in the top 5 discussion right now (haven't seen his name once the past month). .5 games behind Golden State. It's impressive.

If SAS surpass GSW in standings, then Kawhi absolutely has a case; the question is the likelihood of that actually happening, which is probably very slim.

Kawhi is currently 7th in WS and WS/48, 8th in PER, 9th in Real Plus Minus, and 10th in VORP. His traditional stat line (25-6-3) is somewhat underwhelming for a MVP candidate, despite its efficiency. If the Spurs end up as a 2nd or 3rd seed, Kawhi has no chance; but if they do surpass the Warriors, then he would probably become the favorite to win.

His PER, WS/48, PPG/efficiency and team record as the clear alpha on both ends (yes he's clearly better than LMA offensively this year) makes him worthy of top 5 consideration with room for upside. Do I think he's the MVP? Hell no, still Harden, but just worth mentioning his name again. He's been outstanding.

[BallerTalk]

Funny how Harden suddenly has a better team now that the season started. That definitely wasn't the narrative before the season.

So, you noticed that too.

Eh, we're talking strictly offense here, anyone that thinks this Rockets team has the overall talent to get 60 wins and go far in the postseason is overreacting, but it was always obvious that they had the offensive talent that few teams in the league had. I can boast that I did see it coming and picked D'Antoni for COY because they'd overachieve though

Are we talking strictly offense here?
The Rockets currently have the 3rd ranked defense in the NBA for the month of December.
They've been just outside the top 10 (12th) since the return of Pat Beverley a month ago and are 13-2 during that time.

To suggest that the Rockets early success is a fluke or dismiss it as strictly an offensively driven over-achievement seems a bit misinformed. Their elite offense is their calling card, but there is more to that team than just run-and-gun three pointers.
I know it's still relatively early, and old narratives die hard, but with approximately 1/3 of the season in the books at what point do we begin to accept the results of what we've seen so far?

As I said before the season, the two most proven paths to success in the NBA are:
1) A roster of superior talent
or
2) Execute a superior system
...and when you do the latter well, it begins to resemble the former.
I think that is why we now have more people talking about how much offensive talent Harden has around him,
apparently not realizing that the changing perception of Houston's roster is a direct result of Harden's stellar play at the point.

[Tritodian]

That's far too dismissive.
His potential case is "best player on the best team", and he's putting up a highly efficient 25 PPG with a PER of 27 and WS/48 of .247 as the reigning b2b DPOY. Its nothing to scoff at and he belongs in the top 5 discussion right now (haven't seen his name once the past month). .5 games behind Golden State. It's impressive.

If SAS surpass GSW in standings, then Kawhi absolutely has a case; the question is the likelihood of that actually happening, which is probably very slim.

Kawhi is currently 7th in WS and WS/48, 8th in PER, 9th in Real Plus Minus, and 10th in VORP. His traditional stat line (25-6-3) is somewhat underwhelming for a MVP candidate, despite its efficiency. If the Spurs end up as a 2nd or 3rd seed, Kawhi has no chance; but if they do surpass the Warriors, then he would probably become the favorite to win.

His PER, WS/48, PPG/efficiency and team record as the clear alpha on both ends (yes he's clearly better than LMA offensively this year) makes him worthy of top 5 consideration with room for upside. Do I think he's the MVP? Hell no, still Harden, but just worth mentioning his name again. He's been outstanding.

Sure, I would put Kawhi in my top 5 MVP candidates too; probably at #5 behind Harden, Westbrook, Durant and CP3, but if the Spurs keep on winning, then I can see him moving up to top 3.

[Ballerhogger]

Harden stock is rising Goatbrook stock is starting fall.

[ballbrah]

I just don't see Harden or Westy having enough wins at the end of the year. I see LeBron pulling ahead second half of the season.

[Johnny Firpo]

yeah, even if you look at his advanced stats, it's really not that great. And let's be honest, Kawhi is not that much better than LaMarcus Aldridge offensively;

Haha, no. He is much, much better. He is putting up 25 on 60%TS, Aldridge never, ever came close to this. In fact, he is a vastly overrated player. I wouldn't vote for Kawhi for MVP right now because I think there are better cases out there, but he is a vastly better offensive player than peak Aldridge was, never mind this current version.

[baldur]

harden must be if rockets rank at 3rd or 4th.

[StepBackCrack]

Harden deserves the award the most so far and clearly imo. He is just been beyond amazing so far. I love how smooth his game is. He makes it look so easy. His footwork is just perfect. A thing of beauty.

[Patches Perry]

Rockets are on pace to win 59 games. At that pace, Harden is certainly the MVP. I think their number is 54-56 wins. Otherwise I think it's either LeBron or Leonard who are on pace to win over 60.

Westbrook needs to average a triple double to have a chance, even then they'll probably have to win 50. Right now they're on pace to win 48.

[Warchant]

Its not even close right now...Harden is running away w the honor

[Warchant]

Rockets are on pace to win 59 games. At that pace, Harden is certainly the MVP. I think their number is 54-56 wins. Otherwise I think it's either LeBron or Leonard who are on pace to win over 60.

Westbrook needs to average a triple double to have a chance, even then they'll probably have to win 50. Right now they're on pace to win 48.

U mentioned the Cavs and SA but dont include either KD or Curry who have the best record in the NBA on pace for over 60 Ws...must b a GS hater

[RCM88x]

Harden no question, he's been unbelievable. The difference between him and Westbrook, to me at least, is that Harden seems to be so passive and able to rack up numbers with such incredible ease. While Westbrook has to kill himself for every point and every assist in a way that really makes him impressive. However Harden is just the perfect guy for this offensive system, and has actually really improved his defense as well.

If Houston stays on this 55+ win pace, I think he should win without question.

[ThomYorke]

Birdman out for the year, unfortunately that takes him out of the running

[Patches Perry]

Rockets are on pace to win 59 games. At that pace, Harden is certainly the MVP. I think their number is 54-56 wins. Otherwise I think it's either LeBron or Leonard who are on pace to win over 60.

Westbrook needs to average a triple double to have a chance, even then they'll probably have to win 50. Right now they're on pace to win 48.

U mentioned the Cavs and SA but dont include either KD or Curry who have the best record in the NBA on pace for over 60 Ws...must b a GS hater

1. Durant and Curry are arguably not even the best players on their own team, due to playing with each other
2. They could lose Durant and still possibly win the west (like last year without an elite bench) because Curry/Klay can pick up scoring slack
3. Same could be said of losing Curry
4. I'm not sure either Durant or Curry are the most valuable on their own team, as Draymond is the guy they can least afford to lose
5. Neither Curry or Durant are "leading" their team. Draymond is the "alpha" leader of the team. At best, you could say it's by committee.

I do hate the Warriors, but I've hated a lot of teams and players that I conceded were great and deserved every bit of their recognition. Warriors are great, as a team and individually, but I'm not sure though by what metric of value can we determine that either Durant or Curry should be MVP over Kawhi or LeBron. There is a clear hierarchy on those teams with those guys at the top. LeBron and Kawhi are leaders, and are also both the best offensive and defensive players on their team.

Warriors are a dominant team that will probably win the title, but they're an all-star team. We don't need to recognize them as individuals when their three best players/scorers are all carrying a much lighter load than they're capable of.

For the record - I'd put Durant 6th in MVP voting right now behind Harden, Leonard, LeBron, Westbrook, Paul. For reference, Durant finished 5th in MVP voting last season, and had a better season than he is having this season. So it's not like my ranking is unprecedented.

[bondom34]

Yeah this is as of now Harden's by a pretty good margin to me. I don't see a solid argument for anyone else.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I think you guys are overlooking demar derozan, a solid last 5 games has boosted him to #7 on nba.com's top 10 rankings. Demar Derozan is balling indeed.

[SpreeS]

Harden!!! No one has a chance...