GT: LA Lakers @ Barclays Center - Wednesday, 12/14/16 7:30pm YES

[Prokorov]

i think he has to get traded at some point this or next year

One of the greatest Nets of all time:

http://nothinbutnets.com/2016/12/13/brook-lopez-nets-underappreciated/

i dont think you can put him in the top 5... and thats for a franchise without a great history.


Julius, Buck, and Kidd are in their own pantheon of great nets players. no one else is in that stratosphere and the conversation of best nets ever starts and ends there. it is not very storied franchise for great players. Kidd and Buck combine for the all-time everything. And Julius time was in the ABA.

so thats 1 through 3 with a major drop off. after that you have:

Vince, Derrick Coleman (even with him dogging it), Kmart.

then another drop off then you have

Super John, Kenny Anderson, ray richardson, RJ, and Lopez.

Lopez is far from underappreciated... he has basically never had the drive or competitive edge to be a star, racked up tons of stats on horrible teams, and his defense has always held back the ceilings of the teams he has been on.

[Pistolpete1947]

i think he has to get traded at some point this or next year

One of the greatest Nets of all time:

http://nothinbutnets.com/2016/12/13/brook-lopez-nets-underappreciated/

i dont think you can put him in the top 5... and thats for a franchise without a great history.


Julius, Buck, and Kidd are in their own pantheon of great nets players. no one else is in that stratosphere and the conversation of best nets ever starts and ends there. it is not very storied franchise for great players. Kidd and Buck combine for the all-time everything. And Julius time was in the ABA.

so thats 1 through 3 with a major drop off. after that you have:

Vince, Derrick Coleman (even with him dogging it), Kmart.

then another drop off then you have

Super John, Kenny Anderson, ray richardson, RJ, and Lopez.

Lopez is far from underappreciated... he has basically never had the drive or competitive edge to be a star, racked up tons of stats on horrible teams, and his defense has always held back the ceilings of the teams he has been on.

Sure sounds under appreciated to me.

[Prokorov]

One of the greatest Nets of all time:

http://nothinbutnets.com/2016/12/13/brook-lopez-nets-underappreciated/

i dont think you can put him in the top 5... and thats for a franchise without a great history.


Julius, Buck, and Kidd are in their own pantheon of great nets players. no one else is in that stratosphere and the conversation of best nets ever starts and ends there. it is not very storied franchise for great players. Kidd and Buck combine for the all-time everything. And Julius time was in the ABA.

so thats 1 through 3 with a major drop off. after that you have:

Vince, Derrick Coleman (even with him dogging it), Kmart.

then another drop off then you have

Super John, Kenny Anderson, ray richardson, RJ, and Lopez.

Lopez is far from underappreciated... he has basically never had the drive or competitive edge to be a star, racked up tons of stats on horrible teams, and his defense has always held back the ceilings of the teams he has been on.

Sure sounds under appreciated to me.

to be honest i think he gets a free pass way too often.... he has basically gotten 5 or 6 coaches fired and another (kidd) left when king wouldnt trade lopez. tons of coaches have been blamed, other players blamed.... lopez has never taken any heat.

now those coaches and players had there issues, but lopez has been a big part of the problem for a while. is one of the few max players in NY history to give lackluster effort and get by, and really hasnt done much to prove he is worth the money to get not 1, but two max deals.

if he was a knick, he'd have been destroyed by the fans and media and run out of town a while ago

[MrDollarBills]

I'm not going to dispute Brook's questionable energy levels and effort over the years but I can't blame him for coaches getting fired. Billy King was a garbage GM that didn't know how to put together rosters and he bet on Deron Williams and lost hard.

Kidd left because he wanted complete control. I don't think Lopez was the make or break point. He knew the Nets brass didn't know what they were doing.

Basically, Brook deserves criticism. But trying to paint him as a coach killer is a bit much. Lopez got challenged by Hollins and he responded on the court, whereas Deron tried to assault Hollins and was a complete cancer. HUGE difference.

Agreed about him being on the Knicks, but their fanbase is kind of irrational as hell to begin with. Look at how they treat Carmelo.

[MrDollarBills]

i think he has to get traded at some point this or next year

One of the greatest Nets of all time:

http://nothinbutnets.com/2016/12/13/brook-lopez-nets-underappreciated/

i dont think you can put him in the top 5... and thats for a franchise without a great history.


Julius, Buck, and Kidd are in their own pantheon of great nets players. no one else is in that stratosphere and the conversation of best nets ever starts and ends there. it is not very storied franchise for great players. Kidd and Buck combine for the all-time everything. And Julius time was in the ABA.

so thats 1 through 3 with a major drop off. after that you have:

Vince, Derrick Coleman (even with him dogging it), Kmart.

then another drop off then you have

Super John, Kenny Anderson, ray richardson, RJ, and Lopez.

Lopez is far from underappreciated... he has basically never had the drive or competitive edge to be a star, racked up tons of stats on horrible teams, and his defense has always held back the ceilings of the teams he has been on.

"...whoopty damn do!!!"

DC was a trip.

[ChokeFasncists]

Kilpatrick also makes way too many turnovers, I know it's because he's out of position but its been a lot of times where he's dribbling the ball and he suddenly just forgets how to dribble then the ball ends up in the other teams hands, or he dribbles the ball off his feet. I can't tell you how many times I've seen him do this. He tries to squeeze passes, his timing is a little off sometimes. Again I can't blame him fully, he's still dropping 20 for us on most nights, but he makes costly turnovers at the wrong time sometimes and I think its all mental. I'm still happy we have him though, don't get me wrong.

Sooooo looking forward to him taking up the combo guard off the bench role once again.

[ChokeFasncists]

That terrible third quarter stretch could be blamed on Bojan.

Despite he put good numbers out there, he isn't a good player. No defense. Lousy passing and ball handling cause numerous turnovers.

Can't blame one guy for a melt down. Bojan was balling last night.

Rewatched that stretch, and still can blame him.
He scored. That's it.

Perhaps we have higher expectations for him cuz he's a vet and he is a good scorer?

With Bojan, you can't just count his own turnovers. You should also count how many turnovers are related to him. The ball got stolen a lot when it's passed to him, and these turnovers weren't counted as his.

Suggest you petition the NBA for a new statistical category: Turnovers that Were Your Fault but Weren't Counted as Yours (TTWYFBWCAY) while you'r at it ask them for the new stat Steals that You Caused but Didn't Get Credit for (STYCBDGCF)

Agreed with Antique, Bogs could be more proactive when receiving kick outs.

Lin has been a big sufferer from this, Asik and Hawes.

[MGrand15]

i dont think you can put him in the top 5... and thats for a franchise without a great history.


Julius, Buck, and Kidd are in their own pantheon of great nets players. no one else is in that stratosphere and the conversation of best nets ever starts and ends there. it is not very storied franchise for great players. Kidd and Buck combine for the all-time everything. And Julius time was in the ABA.

so thats 1 through 3 with a major drop off. after that you have:

Vince, Derrick Coleman (even with him dogging it), Kmart.

then another drop off then you have

Super John, Kenny Anderson, ray richardson, RJ, and Lopez.

Lopez is far from underappreciated... he has basically never had the drive or competitive edge to be a star, racked up tons of stats on horrible teams, and his defense has always held back the ceilings of the teams he has been on.

Sure sounds under appreciated to me.

to be honest i think he gets a free pass way too often.... he has basically gotten 5 or 6 coaches fired and another (kidd) left when king wouldnt trade lopez. tons of coaches have been blamed, other players blamed.... lopez has never taken any heat.

now those coaches and players had there issues, but lopez has been a big part of the problem for a while. is one of the few max players in NY history to give lackluster effort and get by, and really hasnt done much to prove he is worth the money to get not 1, but two max deals.

if he was a knick, he'd have been destroyed by the fans and media and run out of town a while ago

He got 5-6 coaches fired?

This is exactly the type of ridiculous stuff I'm talking about.

Please name one year where he had a good roster around him and a good coach. Just one.

[Pistolpete1947]

Sure sounds under appreciated to me.

to be honest i think he gets a free pass way too often.... he has basically gotten 5 or 6 coaches fired and another (kidd) left when king wouldnt trade lopez. tons of coaches have been blamed, other players blamed.... lopez has never taken any heat.

now those coaches and players had there issues, but lopez has been a big part of the problem for a while. is one of the few max players in NY history to give lackluster effort and get by, and really hasnt done much to prove he is worth the money to get not 1, but two max deals.

if he was a knick, he'd have been destroyed by the fans and media and run out of town a while ago

He got 5-6 coaches fired?

This is exactly the type of ridiculous stuff I'm talking about.

Please name one year where he had a good roster around him and a good coach. Just one.

I just hope that trades are put on the back burner until everyone is healthy (if ever) and they have a chance to play together. Then it will be better known exactly what is needed to improve the team. We all have ideas right now but if the team starts winning (or continues losing) things might look different. In my opinion it would be a big mistake to trade Lopez now. I realize he's got weaknesses such as rebounding and defense but he's also got strengths such as having good character, a team player and one of the top scorers in the league for many years.
I don't think his rebounding is a major concern as the team (at least lately) is holding their own. He does box out his man consistently while team mates who don't go right for the ball. So who is going to get the rebound most of the time? The person who boxes out or the one who goes directly to get the ball? At least the opposing center has been taken out of the play. His defense is a concern however but at least he tries and sometimes blocks shots. He doesn't seem to have enough fast twitch muscle so he is slow and not an explosive jumper. Both things are physical liabilities which limit his defensive effectiveness. He is however very effective on the offensive end and even more so this year because he is now an effective 3 point shooter. You can't overestimate the value of someone who can get you 20 points a night, can go to in the clutch and who opens up team mates because of double teaming. He is also a good teammate and creates good team chemistry. Team chemistry can be the most important factor for a winning team and enables them to play better than the sum of their parts.
If a trade for Lopez happens than what do the Nets need in return for him? You would need a high character person first who would not come in and rock the boat. Then you would need a center who is a strong rebounder and shot blocker and capable of scoring 10-15 points a game. You should also get a 1st round draft pick. Is this possible? I don't know but it should be the least we should accept.

[LOUiS-D]

I think part of the reason Brook gets a pass is because of his personality. He's both hard to dislike and hard to take seriously. Sounds kinda harsh but he doesn't give off a man vibe. I think the dude loves basketball, I just can't see him adopting a 'whatever it takes' attitude. He seems to be more of the 'I'm ok, you're ok' disposition.

There are greats who are like that who overcome that lack of nasty with exceptional intelligence and hard work, but most are so hungry for success that they're somewhere on the spectrum of intense to total bastard.

[antique0o0]

With Bojan, you can't just count his own turnovers. You should also count how many turnovers are related to him. The ball got stolen a lot when it's passed to him, and these turnovers weren't counted as his.

Suggest you petition the NBA for a new statistical category: Turnovers that Were Your Fault but Weren't Counted as Yours (TTWYFBWCAY) while you'r at it ask them for the new stat Steals that You Caused but Didn't Get Credit for (STYCBDGCF)

And they should also write down all those passings which lead to free throws as assists.

[MrDollarBills]

Sure sounds under appreciated to me.

to be honest i think he gets a free pass way too often.... he has basically gotten 5 or 6 coaches fired and another (kidd) left when king wouldnt trade lopez. tons of coaches have been blamed, other players blamed.... lopez has never taken any heat.

now those coaches and players had there issues, but lopez has been a big part of the problem for a while. is one of the few max players in NY history to give lackluster effort and get by, and really hasnt done much to prove he is worth the money to get not 1, but two max deals.

if he was a knick, he'd have been destroyed by the fans and media and run out of town a while ago

He got 5-6 coaches fired?

This is exactly the type of ridiculous stuff I'm talking about.

Please name one year where he had a good roster around him and a good coach. Just one.

The one season he had a good roster with him we won 49 games. Brook isn't the problem, but he isn't above reproach either.

[MGrand15]

to be honest i think he gets a free pass way too often.... he has basically gotten 5 or 6 coaches fired and another (kidd) left when king wouldnt trade lopez. tons of coaches have been blamed, other players blamed.... lopez has never taken any heat.

now those coaches and players had there issues, but lopez has been a big part of the problem for a while. is one of the few max players in NY history to give lackluster effort and get by, and really hasnt done much to prove he is worth the money to get not 1, but two max deals.

if he was a knick, he'd have been destroyed by the fans and media and run out of town a while ago

He got 5-6 coaches fired?

This is exactly the type of ridiculous stuff I'm talking about.

Please name one year where he had a good roster around him and a good coach. Just one.

The one season he had a good roster with him we won 49 games. Brook isn't the problem, but he isn't above reproach either.

Good roster and good coach? PJ was 10 years behind the rest of the league. I was KILLING him back then.

[Prokorov]

He got 5-6 coaches fired?

This is exactly the type of ridiculous stuff I'm talking about.

Please name one year where he had a good roster around him and a good coach. Just one.

The one season he had a good roster with him we won 49 games. Brook isn't the problem, but he isn't above reproach either.

Good roster and good coach? PJ was 10 years behind the rest of the league. I was KILLING him back then.

we had like 5 or 6 coaches in 5 or 6 years... at some point the coach isn't the problem. Lopez wasnt the main issue all the time, but at what point do you need to say his lack of development/improvement/defense is on him and not the coach?

was it brooks fault or was it Frank/Kiki/Avery/PJ/Kidd/Hollins/brown?

[Pistolpete1947]

If anyone gets traded it should be one of the wings which we have too many of. Need a real backup center.

[MrDollarBills]

He got 5-6 coaches fired?

This is exactly the type of ridiculous stuff I'm talking about.

Please name one year where he had a good roster around him and a good coach. Just one.

The one season he had a good roster with him we won 49 games. Brook isn't the problem, but he isn't above reproach either.

Good roster and good coach? PJ was 10 years behind the rest of the league. I was KILLING him back then.

I thought the roster in 2012 was okay. PJ was better than Avery, but just as stubborn. He kept playing Wallace and Evans together which made it so easy for teams to defend us.

[MrDollarBills]

The one season he had a good roster with him we won 49 games. Brook isn't the problem, but he isn't above reproach either.

Good roster and good coach? PJ was 10 years behind the rest of the league. I was KILLING him back then.

we had like 5 or 6 coaches in 5 or 6 years... at some point the coach isn't the problem. Lopez wasnt the main issue all the time, but at what point do you need to say his lack of development/improvement/defense is on him and not the coach?

was it brooks fault or was it Frank/Kiki/Avery/PJ/Kidd/Hollins/brown?

Frank: Got fired because Ratner wanted the team gutted for sale. We lose vince carter and ryan anderson for next to nothing, Nets proceed to march one of the worst teams in history on the floor. Explain how Lopez is at fault?

Kiki: Interim coach. What did Lopez do to get him fired?

Avery: I don't think we need to go into how inept Avery was. Even when the team won, we looked bad, the team had no offensive system to speak of. he played favorites. Can't blame Lopez.

PJ: Nets weren't going to bring him back. 2nd interim coach. Not Lopez's fault, but if we want to place blame on losing vs the Bulls Deron and Brook both can share that blame because they got their asses kicked by Nate Robinson and Joakim Noah, and Joe Johnson's foot was messed up so he was a non factor.

Kidd: He tried to pull a power play because he correctly assessed that Billy King didn't know what the **** he was doing. He only tried to pull the power play because he had the Bucks job as his trump card. Him wanting to trade Lopez to the Bucks sounds kind of shady if he had intentions on hauling ass there in the first place. Can't blame Lopez for this, the Nets front office at that time is 100% responsible for that mess.

Hollins: Lopez responded to Hollins' coaching, he had to get benched for playing soft but he responded how a good player should respond. Can't blame him for this one either. What got Lionel fired was his old school approach to basketball, his inability to communicate with players, the horrific roster, and of course, his own grumpy personality that doesn't do him any favors when the team sucks. I will always commend Lionel however, for telling Deron that he was garbage and nearly getting assaulted over it. He was doing the Lord's work in that instance.

Brown: 3rd interim coach. He wasn't going to be retained once Billy King was banished to basketball hell, never to return again. Not Lopez's fault

You can make a case for Lopez having some responsibility for PJ because if we had gotten to the 2nd rd the Nets would have looked crazy letting him go. But that's about it imo...

[MGrand15]

Good roster and good coach? PJ was 10 years behind the rest of the league. I was KILLING him back then.

we had like 5 or 6 coaches in 5 or 6 years... at some point the coach isn't the problem. Lopez wasnt the main issue all the time, but at what point do you need to say his lack of development/improvement/defense is on him and not the coach?

was it brooks fault or was it Frank/Kiki/Avery/PJ/Kidd/Hollins/brown?

Frank: Got fired because Ratner wanted the team gutted for sale. We lose vince carter and ryan anderson for next to nothing, Nets proceed to march one of the worst teams in history on the floor. Explain how Lopez is at fault?

Kiki: Interim coach. What did Lopez do to get him fired?

Avery: I don't think we need to go into how inept Avery was. Even when the team won, we looked bad, the team had no offensive system to speak of. he played favorites. Can't blame Lopez.

PJ: Nets weren't going to bring him back. 2nd interim coach. Not Lopez's fault, but if we want to place blame on losing vs the Bulls Deron and Brook both can share that blame because they got their asses kicked by Nate Robinson and Joakim Noah, and Joe Johnson's foot was messed up so he was a non factor.

Kidd: He tried to pull a power play because he correctly assessed that Billy King didn't know what the **** he was doing. He only tried to pull the power play because he had the Bucks job as his trump card. Him wanting to trade Lopez to the Bucks sounds kind of shady if he had intentions on hauling ass there in the first place. Can't blame Lopez for this, the Nets front office at that time is 100% responsible for that mess.

Hollins: Lopez responded to Hollins' coaching, he had to get benched for playing soft but he responded how a good player should respond. Can't blame him for this one either. What got Lionel fired was his old school approach to basketball, his inability to communicate with players, the horrific roster, and of course, his own grumpy personality that doesn't do him any favors when the team sucks. I will always commend Lionel however, for telling Deron that he was garbage and nearly getting assaulted over it. He was doing the Lord's work in that instance.

Brown: 3rd interim coach. He wasn't going to be retained once Billy King was banished to basketball hell, never to return again. Not Lopez's fault

You can make a case for Lopez having some responsibility for PJ because if we had gotten to the 2nd rd the Nets would have looked crazy letting him go. But that's about it imo...

Funny part is he knows all of this. Hes watched all this unfold like we have. Not sure why he made you go through that list.

Just to add - PJs insistence on playing Reggie/Wallace together played PERFECTLY into the hands of Thibs and his overloading strong side defense. Then to make it worse, he kept throwing Watson/Deron out there together. Which not only was a bad pairing ALL year - it let the Bulls hide Nate (their only legit scorer) on Watson. One of the prime examples of coaching leading a less talented team to victory in the playoffs. Thibs destroyed PJ.

PJ is a guy I'd fight on sight. No hesitation. I hope I never meet him.

[MrDollarBills]

Didn't PJ also refuse to play Mirza? We needed floor spacing out there and he refused to cut Evans' minutes.