The Boogie Watch

Post #221 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:14 pm

kennydorglas · Post #222 » by **kennydorglas** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:49 pm

He might be the new Bynum

or might get it together like Love did and shine.

BUY LOW

thamadkant · Post #223 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:55 pm

Fo-Real wrote:Cousins is head and shoulders above Barkley as far having been a head case.

Cousins is head and shoulders above the average NBA player as a head case, are you saying Barkley is average in terms of being a "head case". We've all seen the mug shots, Barkley was far from a role model but very very lovable on court.

thamadkant · Post #224 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:58 pm

And just to add.. Cousins is HEAD to TOE above anyone on the Suns in regards to production All-Star numbers especially for big men.

GMATCallahan · Post #225 » by **GMATCallahan** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:02 am

1UPZ wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:Cousins is head and shoulders above Barkley as far having been a head case.

Cousins is head and shoulders above the average NBA player as a head case, are you saying Barkley is average in terms of being a "head case". We've all seen the mug shots, Barkley was far from a role model but very very lovable on court.

Barkley proved volatile and gluttonous (on and off the floor), and he loved the nightlife (which of course rendered him even more of a target), but he was intelligent and ironic. I do not know enough about Cousins to know how intelligent he happens to be, but I am quite sure that he lacks Barkley's level of intelligence and irony. Something else to consider is that when Phoenix traded for Barkley, he was twenty-nine (Cousins is twenty-six) and had learned to control his emotions a little better.

That said, the Suns did dodge a couple of bullets with Barkley off the court (I will not presently go into the most serious one, as nothing was ever substantiated in a court of law), and on the floor, he always presented the risk of technical fouls and even ejections. But Barkley, at heart, was a clown and a good-humored person with a Pied Piper type of appeal. Certainly, Cousins does not fit that description, nor is he as good of a player, either. I would argue that the Suns may have enjoyed just as much success, and ultimately even more, had they never traded for Barkley. However, what proves unquestionable is that Sir Charles turned the Phoenix Suns into a national and international brand, something that they had never been before, and generated an immense amount of publicity. He cultivated the media like no other player, and he constituted the proverbial "rock star" who played basketball.

Cousins offers none of that appeal. The appropriate analogy, in terms of performance level and public attraction, would be less to Charles Barkley and more to Derrick Coleman ...

Finally, keep in mind that part of the reason why the Barkley trade "worked"—and worked so well—for Phoenix was that the Suns possessed a slew of mature veteran players who had already experienced a great deal of winning together: Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Mark West, Tom Chambers. (Over the previous four seasons, Phoenix had won the fifth-most regular season games in the NBA, had constituted the only club to win at least 53 games in each of those years, and had reached two Western Conference Finals.) To that veteran core, the Suns added two thirty-something guards (and future Phoenix head coaches), Danny Ainge (who had played in five NBA Finals and won two championships) and Frank Johnson. Conceptually, the team was well-conceived and rich in talent, so Barkley landed in a fertile environment where he would have nothing to complain about. And temperamentally, with those mature professionals, the Suns could handle Barkley's wayward focus.

The current Suns, conversely, feature a bunch of players who, age-wise, still belong in college. I hardly think that they could work around Cousins' less attractive aspects that easily.

GMATCallahan · Post #226 » by **GMATCallahan** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:12 am

Reflected former Phoenix head coach Paul Westphal in 2004:

Suns.com: How did Barkley handle the balance of being a competitor and a "clown"?

Westphal: In the big moments, Charles thrived. When he was bored, he would get distracted. You had to have mature players to deal with that and I give his teammates a lot of credit for understanding Charles’ quirks, and embracing him even though at times you knew he was going to be a distraction.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040428231024/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_westphal.html

And here are some relevant comments from some of his veteran Phoenix teammates:

Dan Majerle:

Suns.com: What were practice sessions like with Barkley around?

Majerle: The best thing about Charles was he didn’t practice and we didn’t want him to practice because every time he practiced he was busy shooting threes and doing all this stuff messing up practice. We just told Charles to sit on the sidelines and we would do our practicing. He just kept us so loose. I won so much money off of Charles. He’d come down to shoot-around and just want to shoot threes for money. I think my kids are still going to school on his money. So, that was fun.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040417121141/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_majerle.html

Frank Johnson:

Suns.com: What was Barkley like on the practice court?

Johnson: Practice floor? Did he ever show up there (laughs)? Charles’ line was, “Either you want it in the game or want it down on the practice court.” The thing about practice is we didn’t ever want him to practice. He would mess it up so bad because he would be the weak link defensively in practice, so the other guys were like, “No Charles, why don’t you just stay over there,” because we’d just attack him, he wouldn’t play any defense. I think Charles was allergic to defense.

... Suns.com: What are your memories of the funny side of Barkley?

Johnson: I can’t remember any funny jokes because Charles couldn’t tell jokes. He was terrible at jokes. I guess I was really pissed off at him in Seattle in Game 6 (of the ’93 Western Conference Finals). We were up there; we had a chance to close them out. Charles was very loose in Game 6, a little too loose. We all thought he was a little too loose. We go there and we get out butt kicked, thinking that when you have an opportunity to close out, you close out. You have no idea what’s going to happen. Injuries could occur. I just didn’t think he had the right mindset, but I guess he had something bigger and better in mind for Game 7, and he showed it. He told us. He said, “Hey, don’t worry about Game 7.” I guess he knew something that we didn’t know. But we were all worried because you never know what could happen. Injuries could occur, as they did in the Houston series the next year.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040603082115/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_fjohnson.html

Joe Kleine:

Suns.com: What was it like matching up against Barkley in practice?

Kleine: I never matched up to him in practice because he never practiced (laughs). If there’s anybody out there saying Charles worked really hard in practice, they’re lying. On a veteran team like we had, you don’t get mad at a guy who doesn’t want to practice who just played 40 minutes, got 22 rebounds and 32 points. When the lights went on, he performed. Charles was always at practice. He wasn’t going give it to you in practice, but that’s okay because he gave it to you in the game. As long as somebody shows up when the lights come on, most NBA players and coaches don’t consider that a distraction because he’s producing. If he was getting seven points and eight rebounds, and then not practicing and then complaining he needs more time, that’s where that stuff starts to come in.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040417112909/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_kleine.html

The late Wayman Tisdale:

Suns.com: What was it like to have him around practice and in the locker room?

Tisdale: Well, I don’t know because he didn’t ever practice (laughs). He was always the life of the party, though, no matter what it was. He was always the life of the party.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040405071159/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_tisdale.html

TeamTragic · Post #227 » by **TeamTragic** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:23 am

bwgood77 wrote:

Read on Twitter

I honestly just don't get it. Why does DMC put up with this franchise? I mean the press **** hate him and he hates them back. The owners want to literally trade him every season. This guy needs to fire his agent and start fresh.

Demand a trade and see what happens. It cannot get any worse for him. If he keeps going at this rate he will be off the court and in prison within the new few years. What the hell is he doing with that **** human being Matt Barnes? :noway:

GMATCallahan · Post #228 » by **GMATCallahan** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:25 am

Actually, Kevin Johnson did not practice much during those years, either, because he was playing with an undiagnosed sports hernia (a tear in his abdominal wall), and as Danny Ainge later said, "He was in pain all the time."

K.J., however, believed in practice as a means of maintaining team crispness. When he could not participate or declined in order to protect the leg muscles rendered fragile by the undiagnosed hernia, he would use the time to work out. Given the undiagnosed injury that he was dealing with, what is remarkable in retrospect is not how many games K.J. missed (an average of 27 per year while playing four seasons with at least one and ultimately two undiagnosed hernias), but how many games he played in and how effective he proved in those games.

Barkley, conversely, tended to use the time to sit in the stands and read newspapers and magazines. When the Suns imported a state-of-the-art, $80,000 traction table from Canada to help him with his bad back in '93-'94 ($80,000 in those days' dollars), Barkley declined to use it—from his perspective, the effort was not worth the trouble.

Mark West, however, used the machine on his sore back.

Again, as Westphal indicated, you needed mature players to deal with a "leader" who hardly fit any conventional definition of leadership. If DeMarcus Cousins is the "leader" of a young team that is not ready to win, I would not feel confident in the results.

Of course, if you could acquire him for little cost, you might as well do so. But at a major price, I would at least be skeptical given his approaching free agency.

GMATCallahan · Post #229 » by **GMATCallahan** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:37 am

1UPZ wrote:You know that article is from the company that the reporter that has issues with Cousins works for right.

It was stated that Furilo gets on Cousins nerves in the past and in this latest incident Furilo pushed Cousins buttons by mentioning his brother.

Cousins is still an all star big man who can help the Suns.

Again... Barkley was far from perfect off court when the Suns got him and he led the Suns to a finals run.

Barkley joined a team that, had it not suffered some terrible officiating calls at the end of multiple playoff games the previous spring, might have reached the NBA Finals before he even arrived. (I can discuss those calls some other time in another thread.) Of course, the Suns had to surrender three starters in order to acquire Barkley, including their leading scorer (All-Star Jeff Hornacek) and their defensive foundation (Andrew Lang and Tim Perry), but they still possessed a lot of leftover talent, including arguably the best point guard in the game, and then Phoenix inked the best shooter on the free agent market (Danny Ainge) to help replace Hornacek.

Cousins would hardly be arriving in a similar situation. If anything, he would be joining a roster that is worse than the one that Barkley abandoned in Philadelphia in 1992.

And of course, Cousins—while an All-Star—is not as good of a player as Barkley, anyway.

That is not to say that I would automatically be disinterested in him, but I do not see him as a savior, either. Given that the Suns would need to surrender a couple of pieces in order to acquire Cousins, I am skeptical that he could even lead Phoenix to the eighth seed right now. And in terms of building for the future, his pending 2018 free agency only creates more questions.

Fo-Real · Post #230 » by **Fo-Real** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:34 pm

GMATCallahan wrote:Reflected former Phoenix head coach Paul Westphal in 2004:

Suns.com: How did Barkley handle the balance of being a competitor and a "clown"?

Westphal: In the big moments, Charles thrived. When he was bored, he would get distracted. You had to have mature players to deal with that and I give his teammates a lot of credit for understanding Charles’ quirks, and embracing him even though at times you knew he was going to be a distraction.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040428231024/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_westphal.html

And here are some relevant comments from some of his veteran Phoenix teammates:

Dan Majerle:

Suns.com: What were practice sessions like with Barkley around?

Majerle: The best thing about Charles was he didn’t practice and we didn’t want him to practice because every time he practiced he was busy shooting threes and doing all this stuff messing up practice. We just told Charles to sit on the sidelines and we would do our practicing. He just kept us so loose. I won so much money off of Charles. He’d come down to shoot-around and just want to shoot threes for money. I think my kids are still going to school on his money. So, that was fun.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040417121141/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_majerle.html

Frank Johnson:

Suns.com: What was Barkley like on the practice court?

Johnson: Practice floor? Did he ever show up there (laughs)? Charles’ line was, “Either you want it in the game or want it down on the practice court.” The thing about practice is we didn’t ever want him to practice. He would mess it up so bad because he would be the weak link defensively in practice, so the other guys were like, “No Charles, why don’t you just stay over there,” because we’d just attack him, he wouldn’t play any defense. I think Charles was allergic to defense.

... Suns.com: What are your memories of the funny side of Barkley?

Johnson: I can’t remember any funny jokes because Charles couldn’t tell jokes. He was terrible at jokes. I guess I was really pissed off at him in Seattle in Game 6 (of the ’93 Western Conference Finals). We were up there; we had a chance to close them out. Charles was very loose in Game 6, a little too loose. We all thought he was a little too loose. We go there and we get out butt kicked, thinking that when you have an opportunity to close out, you close out. You have no idea what’s going to happen. Injuries could occur. I just didn’t think he had the right mindset, but I guess he had something bigger and better in mind for Game 7, and he showed it. He told us. He said, “Hey, don’t worry about Game 7.” I guess he knew something that we didn’t know. But we were all worried because you never know what could happen. Injuries could occur, as they did in the Houston series the next year.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040603082115/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_fjohnson.html

Joe Kleine:

Suns.com: What was it like matching up against Barkley in practice?

Kleine: I never matched up to him in practice because he never practiced (laughs). If there’s anybody out there saying Charles worked really hard in practice, they’re lying. On a veteran team like we had, you don’t get mad at a guy who doesn’t want to practice who just played 40 minutes, got 22 rebounds and 32 points. When the lights went on, he performed. Charles was always at practice. He wasn’t going give it to you in practice, but that’s okay because he gave it to you in the game. As long as somebody shows up when the lights come on, most NBA players and coaches don’t consider that a distraction because he’s producing. If he was getting seven points and eight rebounds, and then not practicing and then complaining he needs more time, that’s where that stuff starts to come in.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040417112909/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_kleine.html

The late Wayman Tisdale:

Suns.com: What was it like to have him around practice and in the locker room?

Tisdale: Well, I don’t know because he didn’t ever practice (laughs). He was always the life of the party, though, no matter what it was. He was always the life of the party.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040405071159/http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barkley_memories_tisdale.html

You realize Westphal was one of the coaches in the string that couldn't fix or deal with Cuz right? So Paul coached Chuck, but didn't last with Cousins. And the rest just proves the bigger picture point, "you need vets to control someone like him". We have a young impressionable team, no GM wants him around to teach horrible habits to the young dudes.

LukasBMW · Post #231 » by **LukasBMW** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:38 pm

Interesting point that Westphaul could control Chuck but could not control Cousins. I totally forgot that he did indeed coach both.

Excellent points by GMAT highlighting that Cousins is not as good as Barkley and seems to be more of a problem. I agree 100% with the statement that Cousins is more like Derrick Coleman. That's a big problem.

LukasBMW · Post #232 » by **LukasBMW** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:09 pm

That all said... if we can snag him cheap...I'm all about it. I love the idea of putting Noel next to him.

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa
TJ/Dudley/Bender
Cousins/Chriss
Noel/Chandler

That's got some potential.

Question is, are the stock prices of Noel and Cousins low enough to snag them for Len, Knight, Tucker, and a few picks?

Knight for Noel?

Len, Tucker, and 2 #1's for Boogie?

That's almost risk free.

Post #233 » by **lilfishi22** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:42 pm

The reason he's the way he is, is because he's not being held accountable on or off the court. He has no vets around him to keep him in line on the court and the Kings FO has, for the longest time, been giving in to his demands and doing everything to keep him happy because they know he's an elite talent and the Kings have always had a tough time attracting elite talent. The only structure he ever seemed to get was when he played under Mike Malone, which the Kings swiftly fired after one bad season and an 11-13 start to season 2.

The guy has his off-court blunders but I don't think he's a bad guy. He's not a bad team mate either. Build a team with a couple respectable veterans and a coach who preaches discipline and accountability and I think we can direct his energy into on court production.

TeamTragic · Post #234 » by **TeamTragic** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:20 am

LukasBMW wrote:Interesting point that Westphaul could control Chuck but could not control Cousins. I totally forgot that he did indeed coach both.

Excellent points by GMAT highlighting that Cousins is not as good as Barkley and seems to be more of a problem. I agree 100% with the statement that Cousins is more like Derrick Coleman. That's a big problem.

That made me cringe. Not just that but he doesn't look in shape or motivated. Did Cousins forget how to use a bench press? He is turning into Raymond Felton. Lazy and pudgey.

kennydorglas · Post #235 » by **kennydorglas** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:29 am

lilfishi22 wrote:The reason he's the way he is, is because he's not being held accountable on or off the court. He has no vets around him to keep him in line on the court and the Kings FO has, for the longest time, been giving in to his demands and doing everything to keep him happy because they know he's an elite talent and the Kings have always had a tough time attracting elite talent. The only structure he ever seemed to get was when he played under Mike Malone, which the Kings swiftly fired after one bad season and an 11-13 start to season 2.

The guy has his off-court blunders but I don't think he's a bad guy. He's not a bad team mate either. Build a team with a couple respectable veterans and a coach who preaches discipline and accountability and I think we can direct his energy into on court production.

I dont think he's a bad teammate too but that incident with IT was very concerning for me.
Surrounding him with Matt Barnes aint helping too.

LukasBMW · Post #236 » by **LukasBMW** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:26 am

GoranTragic wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Interesting point that Westphaul could control Chuck but could not control Cousins. I totally forgot that he did indeed coach both.

Excellent points by GMAT highlighting that Cousins is not as good as Barkley and seems to be more of a problem. I agree 100% with the statement that Cousins is more like Derrick Coleman. That's a big problem.

That made me cringe. Not just that but he doesn't look in shape or motivated. Did Cousins forget how to use a bench press? He is turning into Raymond Felton. Lazy and pudgey.

Yeah, it's amazing that he can put up the numbers that he does in that shape. Boobies and a beer gut. Imagine what he could do if he got toned up like Bledsoe.

thamadkant · Post #237 » by **thamadkant** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:17 am

Cousins has never been on a winning team.

And quite frankly everyone on the Suns team barring Chandler and Barbosa have never been on a winning NBA team either as core players.

Ive always said this about Suns going for Cousins.... You have to get another all star next to him to show him you are serious in competing.

If suns put Cousins in the Suns without getting another star to help him.... Its like Kings part deux.

Suns and Kings are the same in the last 5 years... Both losing teams with player issues.

TeamTragic · Post #238 » by **TeamTragic** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:24 pm

1UPZ wrote:Cousins has never been on a winning team.

And quite frankly everyone on the Suns team barring Chandler and Barbosa have never been on a winning NBA team either as core players.

Ive always said this about Suns going for Cousins.... You have to get another all star next to him to show him you are serious in competing.

If suns put Cousins in the Suns without getting another star to help him.... Its like Kings part deux.

Suns and Kings are the same in the last 5 years... Both losing teams with player issues.

You mean sign Wall and have him play with Cousins? Do we need to keep Bledsoe in that scenario?

LukasBMW · Post #239 » by **LukasBMW** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:24 pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hy7tcod

Essentially it is:

-Knight for Noel

-Len to a contender for 2 future picks (likely late first rounders)

-Expirings, 2 late future firsts (from the Len trade), and 2 Phoenix picks for Boogie.

Philly says yes (Noel and Llyasova for Knight)
The Warriors say yes (Loony and 2 late firsts for Len)
We say yes (duh)
Kings get cap space and 4 1st rounders for Boogie. They ain't gonna do any better

We can probably even get light protection on our picks. The lesser of the Miami pick or our pick in 2017 and 2021.

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa
TJ/PJ/Bender
Cousins/Dudley/Chriss
Noel/Chandler/Williams

Then we pick up one more PG or combo guard if we make a playoff push.

4...cont em...4 Kentucky players in our starting 5! Holla!

Post #240 » by **lilfishi22** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:31 am

Boogie doing work. 55/13, 17 in the 4th.