Game 27: Phoenix Suns (8-18) @ Oklahoma City Thunder (15-11)

[NavLDO]

You have no idea how low the standards are right now. Len is near the bottom with Knight which is quite sad. What a waste.

Len has his issues but he provides value. Maybe not the eye candy value, but do you just completely ignore stuff like this?

The 2 most important things for every center are rebounding and rim protection. Len's rebound percentage for the year is 18.0 and block percentage is 5.4. To put this into perspective, here's a list of players who averaged 16+ TReb% and 5+ Blk% while playing at least 20 minutes per game in the last 4 seasons (since Len was drafted):



Players with his skillset are worth significantly more than $10M/yr.

That is extremely valuable. I mean that's proof. I think we probably have enough scoring once Booker and Warren get in their prime and rebounding has ALWAYS been a huge weakness for the Suns. Now that we have a young center who is among the best rebounders in the league, people want to get rid of him?

I'm happy we finally have a good young 7 footer who rebounds and can block shots. He's not pretty on offense that much, but most great rebounding and good rim protectors are not either.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Alex Len is not worth 16M per season or greater. Not on this current team and I bet he won't fit whatever McD has planned for the future. I saw a post recently saying that he has been playing better the last 10 games.

Does that mean we should pay him 20M per season? How did that approach work for Knight? I guess we should give Tucker a contract because every once in a while he plays good D on a superstar. This is nonsense on multiple levels.

There are too many redundancies right now. This franchise is going nowhere fast and signing Len to a ridiculous contract will not solve any current issues. It will just make the future more complicated.

While I respect your opinion to not like what Len offers, there are a couple of points you mentioned I think are worth discussing, plus, I have a question for you.

The 'redundancies' you speak of will be all but gone next season, as there really is only one (in the frontcourt) with Tucker on board, but he's gone. The rest of our 'potential' PFs are of the 'stretch' variety (Warren, Bender, Chriss, Dudley). None are 'bangers' inside, so Len an Chandler are a good 1/2 punch for the next couple of years.

Regarding the money?? We don't know what 'Market' will be set for Centers at the end of the season, but based upon what was 'set' last year, and assuming the Cap will continue to rise, and the fact that the '13 draft was 'chock full' of 'decent' if unspectacular Centers, with one exception being Gobert, Len will receive a salary commensurate with the other Centers that he is 'as good as' in everyone else's eyes but Sun's fans, and which has been 'proven' in various ways by various posters. Let's look at the 1st Rd 'Centers' from that class that were 1st Rd picks (some are PF/C-types, but even Len was put as PF at times, so I'll list them as well):

Cody Zeller
Alex Len
Nerlens Noel
Steven Adams
Kelly Olynyk
Lucas Nogueira
Gorgui Dieng
Mason Plumlee
Rudy Gobert

On this list, only 2 are 'clearly' more talented/better than Len--Gobert and Noel(maybe??). The rest may be a bit more talented offensively, but lack Len's defensive and rebounding prowess. So let's say, Adams and Zeller get $20M per contracts next year, wouldn't 'bat an eye' if Len got the same. He's on par with them talent-wise, just in different ways

Now, let's look at some of the 'per yr' contracts that were thrown out last year with (age):

Horford(30) -$28.3M
Whiteside(27) - $24.5M
Noah(31) - $18.1M
Mozgov(30) - $16M
Mahinmi(30) - $16M
Valanciunas(24) - $16M
Miles Plumlee(28) - $12.5M

So my question is, after looking at that list, which Centers are clearly better than Len? Yep, just the top 2. Noah's well past his prime. Valanciunas is more talented offensively, but there is a reason why so many ORL fans are offering him up in trades; he offers almost nothing in the middle of that defense.

So what's your answer to spell or replace Chandler next season?

Sorry, but the market will dictate Len's salary, not some arbitrary number we as fans 'think' is a fair amount. McD has been pretty good at paying market value for our talent. Knight/Bledsoe 'were' worth their contracts at that time, they just have regressed horribly...Knight more so than Bledsoe, but both, IMO, are not playing to their contract right now.

[Boxy99]

Took ulis one play to do what knight has been trying to do all game

Don't forget Bledsoe...not sure what EXACTLY you are referencing, but most likely applies to Bledsoe as well--our starting PG with 4 Assts...WOO HOO!!!! Booker had more with 5. I really need to try to find time to watch this one.

How pitiful is it that...

...RW slashes 26/22/11 on 53% from 2 and 50% from 3

...while...

...EB slashes 12/4/3 on 31% from 2 and 17% from 3

Blame Knight, Len, Tucker, Chandler, etc., all you want, but our player leadership on this team sucks, and likely our rookie coach as well. But c'mon...McD needs to give the 'cook' some ingredient to work with, and it all starts with the cut of 'beef' at the PG position, and sorry, but when Watson's forced to work with cube steak, while Donovan gets Filet Mignon, there's only so much he can do...

It was the quoted straight after Ulis drive to the bucket in his first play off the bench. Watching knight loosing his handles time and time again trying to drive was just hard to watch

Yeah bleds numbers were not great in this game but his had a good couple of weeks so ill cut him some slack.

[Boxy99]

This game is unwatchable. I hate what a negative fan this season has turned me into.

Its hard to think of any positives.

One was watching booker now he sucks at the moment.

I watch to watch the rookies but they get no minutes.

I guess we are one game closer to trading knight in one positive

I'm not sure how you can realistically say that about our rookies. Chriss is averaging 17 MPG in 27 gms, and Bender is averaging 11 MPG in 22 gms. Shoot, Chriss has even started 20 games--more than Len and Warren combined in their rookie seasons, so I think we got a bit 'spoiled' last season with seeing Booker play so much; but we need to remember that Backcourt-types typically develop quicker than Bigs, so it's a testament that Chriss is even getting so much 'burn'.

And regarding yur previou statement, at the time you made it, Booker did appear to be headed for another poor game, but he pulled it out to a respectable game...aside from his 6 TOVs.

I did do this post at half time and i was so pissed so it was a frustrated post.

Although Ulis gives us more then knight and could easily be given more minutes but then do we need to keep playing knight to build up his currency? But the more he plays he seems to be losing his currency . I think bender could be given more minutes especially when we are getting blown away. I understand you cant play all the kids and you need experienced players out there to direct the kids but wow the older boys are hard to watch at times.

As for booker i love the kid i actually feel for the kid he has 2 much expectations on him to perform every night as a 20 year old.

[NavLDO]

Its hard to think of any positives.

One was watching booker now he sucks at the moment.

I watch to watch the rookies but they get no minutes.

I guess we are one game closer to trading knight in one positive

I'm not sure how you can realistically say that about our rookies. Chriss is averaging 17 MPG in 27 gms, and Bender is averaging 11 MPG in 22 gms. Shoot, Chriss has even started 20 games--more than Len and Warren combined in their rookie seasons, so I think we got a bit 'spoiled' last season with seeing Booker play so much; but we need to remember that Backcourt-types typically develop quicker than Bigs, so it's a testament that Chriss is even getting so much 'burn'.

And regarding yur previou statement, at the time you made it, Booker did appear to be headed for another poor game, but he pulled it out to a respectable game...aside from his 6 TOVs.

I did do this post at half time and i was so pissed so it was a frustrated post.

Although Ulis gives us more then knight and could easily be given more minutes but then do we need to keep playing knight to build up his currency? But the more he plays he seems to be losing his currency . I think bender could be given more minutes especially when we are getting blown away. I understand you cant play all the kids and you need experienced players out there to direct the kids but wow the older boys are hard to watch at times.

As for booker i love the kid i actually feel for the kid he has 2 much expectations on him to perform every night as a 20 year old.

I agree to a point. It may be a case of the difference between what he's showing in the outside, and what he's actually feeling on the inside, because he appears to be handling all this pressure fairly well on the outside, but maybe on the inside, he's really feeling that pressure, causing him to try to do too much. IDK. In the end, though, I think he'll be fine. It's as I mentioned. When your 'QB' of the team (Bledsoe) I playing below par, it's hard to expect everyone else to excel...