Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[bwgood77]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hxyugqd

Boston Len
Philly Knight
Minny Noel
PHX Smart Shabazz Dieng

I love it. Been a fan of Dieng and I think Shabazz and Smart have potential and are moveable.

I posted it on the trade board to see reactions. The only fan base I think might not want it is Boston. I don't think Philly fans would be too excited with Knight as a return, but I think I've seen that some would be fine with it, though maybe not.

[Frank Lee]

Why? PF position is kinda crowded atm.

? Crowded with pudgy SFs.... Tucker and Dudley. Crowded with kids.....Chriss is so lost he mucks it up for the other four...... And Bender is just ignored for some reason


This team lacks real talent. Lacks BBIQ. Lacks inside scoring. Lacks passing. healthy DMo is a much needed talent infusion. Furthermore, his court savvy and footwork would be a fine blueprint for Bender to follow. Chriss? I'm not sure he could spell blueprint.

Jesus Christ man. I like DMo as much as nearly anybody, but he has worse numbers than Chriss, who you hate, in 3 of his 4 NBA seasons. He is 25 and coming off his worst season ever, shooting horribly from the field across the board, with poor defense and limited ancillary skills. He is only elite in the post, and he hasn't been that in 2 years, when he broke out, but again that is just 1 of 4 years.

If you are going to give up on Chriss in less than half a season at age 20, I am flabergasted as to how you would have so much faith in DMo. From a talent perspective, Chriss is drastically further along at age 20 than DMo was and that isn't even debatable.

This team needs to do what it is doing--play the youngsters and lose games. Add more talent and move forward.

You are flabbergasted or blabbergasted? No hate here, no giving up, just the stark observation of how far away the teen twosome is from contributing on a professional level. You 'draft builders' are so sensitive to any criticism. Is sending a kid to the DLeague giving up on him, or actually is it a constructive thing? This isn't about replacing Chriss or Bender with DMo, it's about adding more talent and moving forward. This team is horrible. It's going to take more than an actual PF and a top pick to change that.

And furthermore, the twisted stat 'at the same age' arguement means nothing. Circumstances vary, roles and rosters are different. there are too many variables from one to the other for those stats to have any real reflection or bearing on who is or will be the better ball player. Where is the eyeball stat? Because if you use that one, it's easy to see Chriss has no idea of where he should be on both ends of the court, Sadly, it seems more than not, low BB sense is the hardest flaw to cure. Sure, he has physical tools.... a lot of guys do/did...(SSwift, TyrusT, HWarrick come to mind) that doesn't guarantee anything. But I tell you what, being a PF selected #8 by a team with no PFs, a team desperate for anything positive, will get you some playing time, whether you deserve it or not.

The real problem here is the overall lack of talent on this roster. And it's equally disturbing how so many have flat out given up putting out a competitive team for the hopes of drafting our way back to the top. it just doesn't happen. The draft places too much emphasis on potential and not on production. Fact is, we hope Chriss will become a decent to good PF.... same for Bender. But we can't tell till they grow up.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

There would have to be a third team. I can't see Noel landing here. Send Noel to Portland and give me Evan Turner.

The great thing about all three of these players is that they have no value to the team going out, but all three could in theory do better with a fresh start.

Hell no to all of that. Evan Turner? Why do our fans covet passers who pass because they cannot hit the broad side of a barn with a rocket launcher? He's not even young either. Noel is a much better gamble than Turner.

Either take a pick or a young player.

When you say, "Evan Turner?" don't you imagine that's what other teams say when someone proposes "Brandon Knight?" "That guy's got the worst RPM in the league! A turnover machine who can't shoot or defend! He's a scrub!" If this season's the measure, we should be happy to receive Evan Turner in return.

Turner had some success in Boston, and his passing would at least liven up our games. I'm okay going another direction, but if you think we're going to get a pick or a young player for Knight, I'm not sure you'll get it.

I look at our roster and see:

[Fultz/Ball/Fox/Monk?]/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa
Warren/Dudley
Chriss/Bender
Len

What that team needs are solid team players on long-term contracts who will not eat up the time of our young guys. Ideally, I'd like a rotation wing with wingspan, a young dunky bruiser, and a slightly overpaid veteran PG to sub in for injuries and add perspective from the bench. If I'm trading Knight, what I don't expect to get is a great version of any of those things. What we need are guys with good attitudes (like Dudley, Barbosa and Chandler) who can back these guys up. So I'm willing to take guys who are slightly overpaid in exchange for Knight - in large because I think I'm being realistic. But who knows.

More than anything, I just want Tyler to play.

[lilfishi22]

? Crowded with pudgy SFs.... Tucker and Dudley. Crowded with kids.....Chriss is so lost he mucks it up for the other four...... And Bender is just ignored for some reason


This team lacks real talent. Lacks BBIQ. Lacks inside scoring. Lacks passing. healthy DMo is a much needed talent infusion. Furthermore, his court savvy and footwork would be a fine blueprint for Bender to follow. Chriss? I'm not sure he could spell blueprint.

Jesus Christ man. I like DMo as much as nearly anybody, but he has worse numbers than Chriss, who you hate, in 3 of his 4 NBA seasons. He is 25 and coming off his worst season ever, shooting horribly from the field across the board, with poor defense and limited ancillary skills. He is only elite in the post, and he hasn't been that in 2 years, when he broke out, but again that is just 1 of 4 years.

If you are going to give up on Chriss in less than half a season at age 20, I am flabergasted as to how you would have so much faith in DMo. From a talent perspective, Chriss is drastically further along at age 20 than DMo was and that isn't even debatable.

This team needs to do what it is doing--play the youngsters and lose games. Add more talent and move forward.

You are flabbergasted or blabbergasted? No hate here, no giving up, just the stark observation of how far away the teen twosome is from contributing on a professional level. You 'draft builders' are so sensitive to any criticism. Is sending a kid to the DLeague giving up on him, or actually is it a constructive thing? This isn't about replacing Chriss or Bender with DMo, it's about adding more talent and moving forward. This team is horrible. It's going to take more than an actual PF and a top pick to change that.

And furthermore, the twisted stat 'at the same age' arguement means nothing. Circumstances vary, roles and rosters are different. there are too many variables from one to the other for those stats to have any real reflection or bearing on who is or will be the better ball player. Where is the eyeball stat? Because if you use that one, it's easy to see Chriss has no idea of where he should be on both ends of the court, Sadly, it seems more than not, low BB sense is the hardest flaw to cure. Sure, he has physical tools.... a lot of guys do/did...(SSwift, TyrusT, HWarrick come to mind) that doesn't guarantee anything. But I tell you what, being a PF selected #8 by a team with no PFs, a team desperate for anything positive, will get you some playing time, whether you deserve it or not.

The real problem here is the overall lack of talent on this roster. And it's equally disturbing how so many have flat out given up putting out a competitive team for the hopes of drafting our way back to the top. it just doesn't happen. The draft places too much emphasis on potential and not on production. Fact is, we hope Chriss will become a decent to good PF.... same for Bender. But we can't tell till they grow up.

At a high level, I agree with you. Putting all our eggs in one basket hoping Chriss and Bender comes through is a dangerous method of team building, as is setting low expectation on the team so we can draft high again. We should be bringing in actual productive talent to fill the gaps we have.

The only thing I disagree with you on is DMo being that gap filler. I don't think he's the talent to fill that gap. Signing him to a 4 year deal (it's what he's seeking) takes away cap space and as 1UPZ mentioned in another post, it's slowly but surely taking us into treadmilling territory with guys like DMo on $9-12m a year. Doesn't sound like much but when you have Bledsoe/Knight on $14m, Chandler on $14m, Warren and Len coming up for big extensions; it's a lot of money going to players who I don't think make a good team.

[nevetsov]

It's obvious that we need talent, but how do you get talent? I don't think draft picks = talent necessarily.

Draft picks = potential.

Potential + development (playing time) = talent.

We have a team loaded with potential. We just need to turn it into talent.

This is why talent (eg a superstar) is so hard to acquire via trade - no one wants to give up potential that has already been developed. You want to add to that.

Of course, if you're nowhere near competing, picks become valuable because you have the time to turn potential into talent, in line with potential you already have.

[bwgood77]

Jesus Christ man. I like DMo as much as nearly anybody, but he has worse numbers than Chriss, who you hate, in 3 of his 4 NBA seasons. He is 25 and coming off his worst season ever, shooting horribly from the field across the board, with poor defense and limited ancillary skills. He is only elite in the post, and he hasn't been that in 2 years, when he broke out, but again that is just 1 of 4 years.

If you are going to give up on Chriss in less than half a season at age 20, I am flabergasted as to how you would have so much faith in DMo. From a talent perspective, Chriss is drastically further along at age 20 than DMo was and that isn't even debatable.

This team needs to do what it is doing--play the youngsters and lose games. Add more talent and move forward.

You are flabbergasted or blabbergasted? No hate here, no giving up, just the stark observation of how far away the teen twosome is from contributing on a professional level. You 'draft builders' are so sensitive to any criticism. Is sending a kid to the DLeague giving up on him, or actually is it a constructive thing? This isn't about replacing Chriss or Bender with DMo, it's about adding more talent and moving forward. This team is horrible. It's going to take more than an actual PF and a top pick to change that.

And furthermore, the twisted stat 'at the same age' arguement means nothing. Circumstances vary, roles and rosters are different. there are too many variables from one to the other for those stats to have any real reflection or bearing on who is or will be the better ball player. Where is the eyeball stat? Because if you use that one, it's easy to see Chriss has no idea of where he should be on both ends of the court, Sadly, it seems more than not, low BB sense is the hardest flaw to cure. Sure, he has physical tools.... a lot of guys do/did...(SSwift, TyrusT, HWarrick come to mind) that doesn't guarantee anything. But I tell you what, being a PF selected #8 by a team with no PFs, a team desperate for anything positive, will get you some playing time, whether you deserve it or not.

The real problem here is the overall lack of talent on this roster. And it's equally disturbing how so many have flat out given up putting out a competitive team for the hopes of drafting our way back to the top. it just doesn't happen. The draft places too much emphasis on potential and not on production. Fact is, we hope Chriss will become a decent to good PF.... same for Bender. But we can't tell till they grow up.

At a high level, I agree with you. Putting all our eggs in one basket hoping Chriss and Bender comes through is a dangerous method of building a team, as is setting low expectation on the team so we can draft high again. We should be bringing in actual productive talent to fill that spot the gaps we have.

The only thing I disagree with you on is DMo being that gap filler. I don't think he's the talent to fill that gap. Signing him to a 4 year deal (it's what he's seeking) takes away cap space and as 1UPZ mentioned in another post, it's slowly but surely taking us into treadmilling territory with guys like DMo on $9-12m a year. Doesn't sound like much but when you have Bledsoe/Knight on $14m, Chandler on $14m, Warren and Len coming up for big extensions; it's a lot of money going to players who I don't think make a good team.

I will take having young hopeful draft picks over throwing Gortat, Scola, Beasley, Brown and Dragic as a team 100x out of 100. Tyring to compete with crappy vets was a recipe for disaster.

I'm not sure where Frank expects us to find some quality players now that will get us good enough to be a playoff team that loses in the first round.

At least we can have hope and some of us are excited to watch the young guys. Even when we still had Nash the last couple of years, we were hoping to get to the playoffs and were close, but we all knew (or most of us) it was one playoff series and that team was done and we should start over building a team like when we drafted Marion, Amare, and then made a trade of our vets for JJ, and signed Nash. I mean that took a few years. Why not wait for that again? Are these guys Marion and Amare? I don't know. But we have the rights to more promising players now than at that time, and guys who are perfect for today's NBA. We need to move a few people and add a free agent at some point but I don't see why people don't enjoy watching these guys develop.

[DaleyBlind]

Evan Turner is being paid 18 million a year until 2020....and you want to bring him to PHX...lol

yeah lets go and ahead and bring in another over payed scrub...we made a mistake with Knight, why repeat it by bringing in another bad contract guy...

[DaleyBlind]

Same goes for D-MO...the dude isn't even healthy. Ill give him a shot on a 1 year deal, but he wants a long term deal. Just not worth the risk

[bwgood77]

Same goes for D-MO...the dude isn't even healthy. Ill give him a shot on a 1 year deal, but he wants a long term deal. Just not worth the risk

Didn't he just get matched on like a 4 year deal?

[DaleyBlind]

Same goes for D-MO...the dude isn't even healthy. Ill give him a shot on a 1 year deal, but he wants a long term deal. Just not worth the risk

Didn't he just get matched on like a 4 year deal?

Didn't Houston pull there offer. He is UFA now?

[bwgood77]

Same goes for D-MO...the dude isn't even healthy. Ill give him a shot on a 1 year deal, but he wants a long term deal. Just not worth the risk

Didn't he just get matched on like a 4 year deal?

Didn't Houston pull there offer. He is UFA now?

I guess they did pull it, but it was a match. That doesn't seem right. You match someone and then don't do it? I guess the Nets can sign him now although there would been a restriction on them trading for him for at least a year after being matched. Not sure if that applies to free agency. If so, Houston screwed them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rockets-cut-ties-donatas-motiejunas-153415909.html

[DaleyBlind]

Didn't he just get matched on like a 4 year deal?

Didn't Houston pull there offer. He is UFA now?

I guess they did pull it, but it was a match. That doesn't seem right. You match someone and then don't do it? I guess the Nets can sign him now although there would been a restriction on them trading for him for at least a year after being matched. Not sure if that applies to free agency. If so, Houston screwed them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rockets-cut-ties-donatas-motiejunas-153415909.html

They matched, then pulled that offer

[DaleyBlind]

Didn't he just get matched on like a 4 year deal?

Didn't Houston pull there offer. He is UFA now?

I guess they did pull it, but it was a match. That doesn't seem right. You match someone and then don't do it? I guess the Nets can sign him now although there would been a restriction on them trading for him for at least a year after being matched. Not sure if that applies to free agency. If so, Houston screwed them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rockets-cut-ties-donatas-motiejunas-153415909.html

Yeah, its a weird one. I read somewhere Brooklyn cant offer him a deal now though...apparently.

[thamadkant]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hxyugqd

Boston Len
Philly Knight
Minny Noel
PHX Smart Shabazz Dieng

Not going to happen though. Dieng is a good backup big man who is more of a veteran big man than Noel in age and demeanor.

Also Shabazz behind Dudley, Warren and Tucker?


I like Shabazz but Tucker needs to traded first.

[thamadkant]

I think Bledsoe is a good individual player but not a good team player. And his individual brilliance isnt good enough to be option 1... Even option 2. But I think he would be a good option 3.

Suns terrible style of play is heavily influenced by the type of guards they have.... Dragic/Bledsoe worked because Dragic was having a career season and Gerald Green was putting up 30 points once a week.

[Kerrsed]

Didn't Houston pull there offer. He is UFA now?

I guess they did pull it, but it was a match. That doesn't seem right. You match someone and then don't do it? I guess the Nets can sign him now although there would been a restriction on them trading for him for at least a year after being matched. Not sure if that applies to free agency. If so, Houston screwed them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rockets-cut-ties-donatas-motiejunas-153415909.html

Yeah, its a weird one. I read somewhere Brooklyn cant offer him a deal now though...apparently.

From what i understood, he didnt want to play for the Rockets, so he refused to take a physical. Brooklyn signed him to an offer sheet which he accepted. Houston decided to match, but once again he refused to take the physical, so they were able to release him as an UFA. Now Brooklyn cant sign him because Houston matched their offer, so they must wait a year.

But......ESPN is now reporting something different. Most of that still hold true, but now instead of him refusing to take the physical the 2nd time, they say:

But after taking a physical, Motiejunas told ESPN he was sent home. Rockets officials declined to comment on whether Motiejunas failed the physical.

So either:

A. He did refuse to take it, like what was originally being reported.
B. He took the Physical and failed, so they released him.
C. He took the Physical and passed, but they still had a change of heart and decided to let him go.

Either way, i read that the players association is looking at the matter and trying to find a way for him to still be able to get that Brooklyn offer, even though it is technically against the current rules.

[lilfishi22]

What I was thinking was, if I didn't want to play for a team that matched a deal I got in RFA, then I'd just fail the physical. Give a half-a$$ed attempt during the physical evaluation and hope they can see you're not interested in playing for the team.

[AtheJ415]

I guess they did pull it, but it was a match. That doesn't seem right. You match someone and then don't do it? I guess the Nets can sign him now although there would been a restriction on them trading for him for at least a year after being matched. Not sure if that applies to free agency. If so, Houston screwed them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rockets-cut-ties-donatas-motiejunas-153415909.html

Yeah, its a weird one. I read somewhere Brooklyn cant offer him a deal now though...apparently.

From what i understood, he didnt want to play for the Rockets, so he refused to take a physical. Brooklyn signed him to an offer sheet which he accepted. Houston decided to match, but once again he refused to take the physical, so they were able to release him as an UFA. Now Brooklyn cant sign him because Houston matched their offer, so they must wait a year.

But......ESPN is now reporting something different. Most of that still hold true, but now instead of him refusing to take the physical the 2nd time, they say:

But after taking a physical, Motiejunas told ESPN he was sent home. Rockets officials declined to comment on whether Motiejunas failed the physical.

So either:

A. He did refuse to take it, like what was originally being reported.
B. He took the Physical and failed, so they released him.
C. He took the Physical and passed, but they still had a change of heart and decided to let him go.

Either way, i read that the players association is looking at the matter and trying to find a way for him to still be able to get that Brooklyn offer, even though it is technically against the current rules.

The Rockets also by matching got him at much less than the Brooklyn deal. When you match in RFA, you don't necessarily match incentives, and DMo's moron agent didn't know that, so they had been holding out for a higher offer from Houston for months and then went and signed a deal that is effectively at or below the cost to Houston that they had been offering this whole time.

That is part of why he refused the physical. He doesn't want to be locked into the deal Houston would've been held to if they matched. He would rather take Brooklyn or potentially Utah's deals.

[NavLDO]

Noel is available FOR SURE and he is a better fit for our current stage than Chandler. I would talk with Chandler and trade him for a late pick to a contender/playoff team. He has some value yet, but he is not part of our future.

Noel can be a beast defensively, if he is healthy (and he can be healthier with our medical staff) he can be a real game changer.

If we trade for him NOW we have enough time to see if we want to give him a high salary next season.

We have the trade pieces (Knight, Chandler, Tucker, picks) to adquire him.

Well, they won't want another big back, and doubt they'd want an expiring in Tucker, but Knight? Or Bledsoe? Absolutely. Straight trade...Bledsoe for Noel. Or we can ask they throw in Serge or McConnell, just for some depth, or we make a separate trade with Knight where we bring in a PG somehow.

I haven't read the next two pages, but after reading the news about what came out about Noel being out of Philly's rotation, I'm sure there are at least 10 posts over the next 2 pages regarding bringing Noel in. Just makes too much sense for us, IMO, while unloading either Knight or Bledsoe, in the process.

The only reason I keep bringing up Bledsoe is because I feel we need to go full rebuild, and he's just not helping us right now, and to me, is about 5 years too old to be part of our future, IMO. With all the good PGs coming out this year, and with Ulis on board, to me, this also makes too much sense. We have our pick this year, and two extra future picks and other assets to trade for another lotto pick this year, IMO. McD would be a fool to NOT ensure we came out of this next draft with a PG. We have everything we need except for a young PG (that's taller than 6'); and yes, I feel Len brings enough Defense to be our future starter at C.

[WeekapaugGroove]

The dmo situation with the rockets is certainly an odd one and i think the back injury played a huge part in this mess. Now if the suns were comfortable with his back and if the price tag is reasonable then id be fine signing him if they followed up that move by trading chandler for a minor asset or even trading tucker and letting dudley play the backup 3 opening minutes for dmo at the 4.

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