Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

[Mystical Apples]

CHA needs a non-sticky wing who defends and shoots a little and shifts 3 players closer to their side roles. Sefelosha, Miles, Tucker.

[nbafan341]

Eh, Zeller is a lot better than his box score stats indicate and one of our most important players. Jonas is good as well and it would be nice to have them both, but we don't necessarily need another good starting center. Cojo is a nice sweatener cuz Sessions has been pretty awful for us. The 1st round pick is too much, though. Make that a second and the value is fair imo, but I still don't know if its the kind of trade we need.

A hornets fam was willimg to trade a first rounder for cojo and hes actually our best perimeter defender but we have a longjam at the point guard spot. Id like to think the hornets first rounder will be above 20s and you gotta give to get anything in this league so the first rounder could be 2018 or 2019 if youd wanna see how good your team is after the val and joseph are

For what? Kemba's PO minutes will be 35+ so getting a backup PG and a scoring non-passing C taking usage and space are 180's from what CHA needs.

Basically the same reason Val and Joseph would be on the block except CHA just surrendered their best defender. Jeez plus kicking in a 1st.

ill explain. Steve clifford will definitrly have joseph playing some sg with kemba at the point and shift batum to the 3. Its been a highly effective lineup which is why cojo got 25 min a game on our team despite lowrh playing 38 min a game. I included valancuinas cus I thought the hornets needed a scoring center who actually has a usage of 15% if you even bothered to check out stats before being so harsh. I came in here after 1 hornets fan said they would trade a first for cojo

[Mystical Apples]

A hornets fam was willimg to trade a first rounder for cojo and hes actually our best perimeter defender but we have a longjam at the point guard spot. Id like to think the hornets first rounder will be above 20s and you gotta give to get anything in this league so the first rounder could be 2018 or 2019 if youd wanna see how good your team is after the val and joseph are

For what? Kemba's PO minutes will be 35+ so getting a backup PG and a scoring non-passing C taking usage and space are 180's from what CHA needs.

Basically the same reason Val and Joseph would be on the block except CHA just surrendered their best defender. Jeez plus kicking in a 1st.

ill explain. Steve clifford will definitrly have joseph playing some sg with kemba at the point and shift batum to the 3. Its been a highly effective lineup which is why cojo got 25 min a game on our team despite lowrh playing 38 min a game. I included valancuinas cus I thought the hornets needed a scoring center who actually has a usage of 15% if you even bothered to check out stats before being so harsh. I came in here after 1 hornets fan said they would trade a first for cojo

I mean, I'm a fan of Joseph's and believe he's an incredibly valuable combo with Toronto for the reasons you outlined. Any team would love his services but CHA doesn't have a roster need for a high minute combo....thus signing Sessions on a cheap 1+ 1. The notion a combo's defense could replace that of an elite wing isn't realisitc.

Val is a traditional post with suffering usage from a perimeter heavy, light passing offense. I didnt "check his stats" cause this is common knowledge....I get his usage is lower but that doesn't change his DNA or lacking what Charlotte needs. And again, why Toronto would move him.

[HornetJail]

Eh, Zeller is a lot better than his box score stats indicate and one of our most important players. Jonas is good as well and it would be nice to have them both, but we don't necessarily need another good starting center. Cojo is a nice sweatener cuz Sessions has been pretty awful for us. The 1st round pick is too much, though. Make that a second and the value is fair imo, but I still don't know if its the kind of trade we need.

A hornets fam was willimg to trade a first rounder for cojo and hes actually our best perimeter defender but we have a longjam at the point guard spot. Id like to think the hornets first rounder will be above 20s and you gotta give to get anything in this league so the first rounder could be 2018 or 2019 if youd wanna see how good your team is after the val and joseph are

For what? Kemba's PO minutes will be 35+ so getting a backup PG and a scoring non-passing C taking usage and space are 180's from what CHA needs.

Basically the same reason Val and Joseph would be on the block except CHA just surrendered their best defender. Jeez plus kicking in a 1st.

yeah this trade is horrible. On the trade board, I did suggest trading our 1st for CoJo. We'd have to move one of Hawes or Sessions to make it happen (and I'd be perfectly okay with either). I never said a damn thing about moving MKG or taking on JV. CoJo is as close to a Lin clone as we'd be able to get and he's cheaper. As an added bonus, CoJo and Marco were on the 2014 championship Spurs together in the same backcourt.

[fatlever]

Slam, your guy Faried had a monster game tonight - 25pts (on 11 shots), 7reb, 3blk.

[BigSlam]

Slam, your guy Faried had a monster game tonight - 25pts (on 11 shots), 7reb, 3blk.

Went 10 from 11 from the floor.

He'd be awesome on our 2nd unit.


"BBMF'ers"

[nbafan341]

A hornets fam was willimg to trade a first rounder for cojo and hes actually our best perimeter defender but we have a longjam at the point guard spot. Id like to think the hornets first rounder will be above 20s and you gotta give to get anything in this league so the first rounder could be 2018 or 2019 if youd wanna see how good your team is after the val and joseph are

For what? Kemba's PO minutes will be 35+ so getting a backup PG and a scoring non-passing C taking usage and space are 180's from what CHA needs.

Basically the same reason Val and Joseph would be on the block except CHA just surrendered their best defender. Jeez plus kicking in a 1st.

yeah this trade is horrible. On the trade board, I did suggest trading our 1st for CoJo. We'd have to move one of Hawes or Sessions to make it happen (and I'd be perfectly okay with either). I never said a damn thing about moving MKG or taking on JV. CoJo is as close to a Lin clone as we'd be able to get and he's cheaper. As an added bonus, CoJo and Marco were on the 2014 championship Spurs together in the same backcourt.

before anyone gets hostile here, i never said you agreed to take on valancuinas either. I was explaining why cojo was of interest to the hornets fan and explained to the previous poster why the hornets how joseph would be used since he declared joseph as a backup to play behind 36 min kemba where a first would be too much. i didnt realize everyone in trade threads is like a guard dog snaring at others.

[yosemiteben]

I'm a JVal believer so I'd be really tempted by that trade. He's still only 24, and I'd love a C rotation of Zeller and JVal. I love MKG so I'm not saying I'd do it or that it'd be a smart decision, but I'd be tempted.

[Mystical Apples]

Faired is a bit like Hansbrough in the DOING THINGS sugar high kinda way. Offensive rebounders are generally net drains like that.

For example, Hernangomez was completely ignoring Faried in PnR. For every Oreb he grabbed there were 2-3 tough looks or a sellout compromising the defense.

If someone wanted him I'm sure filler + a 2nd would get it done but Denver coughing up the 2nd is just as likely before FA.

[Braggins]

For what? Kemba's PO minutes will be 35+ so getting a backup PG and a scoring non-passing C taking usage and space are 180's from what CHA needs.

Basically the same reason Val and Joseph would be on the block except CHA just surrendered their best defender. Jeez plus kicking in a 1st.

ill explain. Steve clifford will definitrly have joseph playing some sg with kemba at the point and shift batum to the 3. Its been a highly effective lineup which is why cojo got 25 min a game on our team despite lowrh playing 38 min a game. I included valancuinas cus I thought the hornets needed a scoring center who actually has a usage of 15% if you even bothered to check out stats before being so harsh. I came in here after 1 hornets fan said they would trade a first for cojo

I mean, I'm a fan of Joseph's and believe he's an incredibly valuable combo with Toronto for the reasons you outlined. Any team would love his services but CHA doesn't have a roster need for a high minute combo....thus signing Sessions on a cheap 1+ 1. The notion a combo's defense could replace that of an elite wing isn't realisitc.

I don't know about the bolded part. I feel like we are good on wings and having a guy like CoJo would be really handy (its our biggest need imo), assuming we were willing to commit more to playing small in order to allow him to get minutes while still giving Lamb and Marco plenty of burn. My problem with the trade was just that we don't really have any use for Jonas. If we did and we had an extra wing defender to get rid of then I think the trade would be fair.

[Hornet Mania]

Cho better be kicking the tires on Nerlens Noel. I can definitely see them shipping him off for a mid-late 1st and a useful vet or intriguing prospect eventually. They just don't have the minutes to showcase and boost his value and when Simmons comes back it will be even worse.

Noel is a pretty good player now, and has some potential left, but more importantly I think whatever team trades for him is going to win that trade because he's undervalued. Other teams will probably make better offers, but it would be crazy not to take a shot.

[JDR720]

i would do lamb and a lottery protected 1st for him

[amcoolio]

For what? Kemba's PO minutes will be 35+ so getting a backup PG and a scoring non-passing C taking usage and space are 180's from what CHA needs.

Basically the same reason Val and Joseph would be on the block except CHA just surrendered their best defender. Jeez plus kicking in a 1st.

yeah this trade is horrible. On the trade board, I did suggest trading our 1st for CoJo. We'd have to move one of Hawes or Sessions to make it happen (and I'd be perfectly okay with either). I never said a damn thing about moving MKG or taking on JV. CoJo is as close to a Lin clone as we'd be able to get and he's cheaper. As an added bonus, CoJo and Marco were on the 2014 championship Spurs together in the same backcourt.

before anyone gets hostile here, i never said you agreed to take on valancuinas either. I was explaining why cojo was of interest to the hornets fan and explained to the previous poster why the hornets how joseph would be used since he declared joseph as a backup to play behind 36 min kemba where a first would be too much. i didnt realize everyone in trade threads is like a guard dog snaring at others.

Make it Norman Powell and you got a deal. Don't think I notice that you Toronto fans are trying to sell off your bad players for another solid starter. Lol.

[amcoolio]

I honestly think Faried can save Frank Kaminksy. A Faried/Frank 2nd unit is interesting and with Frank's passing Faried can dominate second units.

MKG/Hibbert/Lamb for Faried, Wilson Chandler, Gary Harris. Big win now move, but I would do it. Denver sheds long term salary and gets their defensive fit with Barton, Murray, Gallo, and the big white guys.

Kemba
Chandler
Batum
Williams
Zeller

Sessions
Bellinelli
Harris
Faried
Frank

Hawes
Roberts
Wood
Harrison

[Mystical Apples]

Oh Gary Harris always gets my attention. The issue with Faried is Denver's defense has been worse with him and usually by a wide margin on an annual basis.

As for Frank, CHA's defensive eFG% with Kaminsky is actually quite good. Last year he was 2nd after Lamb in dead ball eFG and it's been tracking that way since mid-November. The problem has been requiring Frank to contest everywhere in Clifford's endless pursuit of using his PF to surrender zero in the paint....and then rebounding in below average defensive rebounding lineups. With Hibbert the result is too many Orebs, without Hibbert too many opponent 3PA.

The remedy is a mobile 5 who rebounds (not exactly cheap or growing on trees). Or move Frank to 5 and add perimeter length to switch and Dreb. I'd tinker with Marco at pg and Frank at C + 3 wings. It could also create a path for Lamb to become the "scoring pg" that he is but has been a challenge to accommodate.

[catsfan]

Oh Gary Harris always gets my attention. The issue with Faried is Denver's defense has been worse with him and usually by a wide margin on an annual basis.

As for Frank, CHA's defensive eFG% with Kaminsky is actually quite good. Last year he was 2nd after Lamb in dead ball eFG and it's been tracking that way since mid-November. The problem has been requiring Frank to contest everywhere in Clifford's endless pursuit of using his PF to surrender zero in the paint....and then rebounding in below average defensive rebounding lineups. With Hibbert the result is too many Orebs, without Hibbert too many opponent 3PA.

The remedy is a mobile 5 who rebounds (not exactly cheap or growing on trees). Or move Frank to 5 and add perimeter length to switch and Dreb. I'd tinker with Marco at pg and Frank at C + 3 wings. It could also create a path for Lamb to become the "scoring pg" that he is but has been a challenge to accommodate.

it's odd because last year frank did much better defensively with al in the 2nd unit. was that because al never follows a screener out of the paint? hibbert always shows high/hedges but can't even come close to getting back into defensive position. it is an instant rotational scramble for the other 3 defenders. frank can only play center against a few of the smaller centers right now.

what backup center could you flip hibbert and a pick for that provide defense/rim protection but won't cost you lamb and/or belli off the second unit? or do you look to upgrade marv on the starting unit, knock him back to an very expensive 6th man and run frank at center anyway?

[Diop]

I honestly don't see our front office making a move.

I think they stay put and blame injuries for the rough times.

[bravor]

Lamb has trade value, especially with a few disappointing wings (ironically, some are shining in losing teams) and others in contract year for several teams.
He was on the trade block last season, i don't see why he would not be this season, especially with an increased value.

On the other hand, there is just one major bullet to dodge : adding another bad contract (assuming Batum's contract is a borderline bad contract no matter the circumstances from last off season) for the sake of bringing veteran leadership. And going the wizard's way (as JDR or someoen else said).

I would not touch the core at least unless this team can't reach the play offs. Imo, what you need to fix is what has been missing during the play offs. Last year, it was toughness and scoring from the bench (especially with starters struggling) and from the wings. As well as a more dominating center in the post.
No reason to overpay for marginal improvement.

Since everyone agrees (or most) to move Kaminsky at the 5 from the bench, that means geting a defensive minded pf/tweener with a reliable midrange and perimeter shot.
Some are on cheap contract and/or contract year (which is why i talked about Scott despite the - maybe - pending suspension) and don't play with their team.

Geting a promising combo guard would be a major blessing on the other hand. It would lower the scoring pressure from Batum (he can't handle it, nothing new) and alleviate Kemba's duty as well. But you have to bring someone that brings something positive in defense.

But going the cheap way with Chalmers (waiving Roberts or Harrison) and Scott (i personnally think he would fit perfectly with Clifford) could be a good gamble (both on contract year and having to prove they are done for the 1st).
You can use the draft to fix the major need (which means, keeping 1st unless you can get a potential - real - second star to play along Kemba).

[yosemiteben]

Geting a promising combo guard would be a major blessing on the other hand. It would lower the scoring pressure from Batum (he can't handle it, nothing new) and alleviate Kemba's duty as well. But you have to bring someone that brings something positive in defense.

But going the cheap way with Chalmers (waiving Roberts or Harrison) and Scott (i personnally think he would fit perfectly with Clifford) could be a good gamble (both on contract year and having to prove they are done for the 1st).
You can use the draft to fix the major need (which means, keeping 1st unless you can get a potential - real - second star to play along Kemba).

So you want to trade Lamb for Chalmers or Scott, or do you want either of those guys taking minutes from MKG, Belinelli, or Lamb?

Don't get what the purpose of that move would be.

[Snidely FC]

CHA needs a non-sticky wing who defends and shoots a little and shifts 3 players closer to their side roles. Sefelosha, Miles, Tucker.

any of those 3 guys would be a good addition

I also like Jared Dudley or Omri Casspi

Would you include Jeremy Lamb to get any of these guys, cuz I'm thinking he'd be required in any such deals?

The remedy is a mobile 5 who rebounds (not exactly cheap or growing on trees). Or move Frank to 5 and add perimeter length to switch and Dreb. I'd tinker with Marco at pg and Frank at C + 3 wings. It could also create a path for Lamb to become the "scoring pg" that he is but has been a challenge to accommodate.

I really believe mgmt overreacted to the MIA playoff loss in signing a "shot blocker", Whiteside didn't "destroy" us until Cody was down to one leg. I understand mgmt getting a discount on Hibbert, but Roy's immobility kills this teams pnr on both sides of the ball. The guy I wanted this offseason was Tyler Zeller, I think his mobility would perpetuate Cliff's sets on o & d, while team defense would continue to protect the rim. Tyler still somewhat buried on Bos' chart, would they take:

Hibbert + Christian Wood for Tyler Zeller?