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Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

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bravor
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Re: RE: Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#281 » by bravor » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:19 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
bravor wrote:Geting a promising combo guard would be a major blessing on the other hand. It would lower the scoring pressure from Batum (he can't handle it, nothing new) and alleviate Kemba's duty as well. But you have to bring someone that brings something positive in defense.

But going the cheap way with Chalmers (waiving Roberts or Harrison) and Scott (i personnally think he would fit perfectly with Clifford) could be a good gamble (both on contract year and having to prove they are done for the 1st).
You can use the draft to fix the major need (which means, keeping 1st unless you can get a potential - real - second star to play along Kemba).

So you want to trade Lamb for Chalmers or Scott, or do you want either of those guys taking minutes from MKG, Belinelli, or Lamb?

Don't get what the purpose of that move would be.


No, i meant if we cannot get the much needed fix at the combo guard/pf position with a reasonable move, i would try to go the cheap way with the guys i mentioned. Especially with the looming 2017 free agency (bunch of good 3D role players are in their contract year, the market should be more friendly).
For Lamb i would expect a very good return (or even a 1st pick).

Playing time wise, i would cut some of Sessions's minute, especially if we play low pace/good defensive teams (Pistons, Celtics etc.) to bring Chalmers in a Jennings way (knowing we would need some play making from the wings if we can't outscore in transition). Before giving him playing time anyway, you would need to check how much he recovered knowing his main asset was his on the ball defense (and his quick hands).
I would cut Batum's playing time (to average 30/32mn) and play Frank his usual 18/20ish mn at the C and only use Hibbert/Hawes when necessary - fouls, match up, player management...
The main issue with this would be the fact that the creation/organization would rely a lot more on Marco (i would not play Batum with the whole bench).
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#282 » by Joest2003 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:22 pm

Why's everyone want to trade Lamb? I think he's been a pretty good player for us this year. Even won us a game or 2. I honestly don't want to trade anyone. Expecially bench guys I mean what do we really expect to get for guys like Lamb, Frank or even Zeller? Nothing great that's for sure, all that would do is ruin out chemistry. We played great first few weeks of the year we need to get back to that and we will be fine.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#283 » by Braggins » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:24 pm

I really don't want to trade Lamb. I don't think swapping him for a lower upside wing who might be a slightly better immediate fit is worth it and if we trade him for a PG or a big then we would just be opening up another weakness on the wing. I would rather just sit on what we have than make either one of those kinds of moves, unless someone who is a significant upgrade and not too old becomes available, but I'm not sure if anyone like that would be available.

Lamb is young, on a good contract, and is mostly a pretty good fit for what we need from our 2nd wing off the bench. Id rather give up our 1st round pick (with some protection) than trade him.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#284 » by Diop » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:37 pm

Diop wrote:last loss dummy spit team rebuild

Out - MKG and Marv
In - Millsap and Sefolosha

.

Posted this on the Hawks board and got a positive response and apparently we would retain Millsaps bird rights according to their cap guru.

Thabo isn't the defender MKG is but he's pretty good and thankfully he's not the offensive player MKG is.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#285 » by yosemiteben » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:27 pm

MKG (turned 23 in Sept.) + Marv (turns 31 next offseason) for Millsap (RFA that turns 32 in Feb.) + Thabo (URFA turns 33 in May)

Talk about win now.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#286 » by yosemiteben » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:26 pm

I agree with Braggins, it's not clear to me that there is an easy upgrade available in the rotation. We sent PJ + Roberts + 2nds to MEM for CLee to upgrade a starter spot, I don't think you do any sort of similar trade to upgrade a backup rotation spot, especially when it might not even be a clear upgrade. CLee was a massive upgrade and worth it. A backup guy is unlikely to be an upgrade worth giving up assets to accomplish.

Curious to see what Cho does. Barring injury (probably a bad idea to assume we stay healthy) and assuming the current Sessions is the new normal, it's not obvious to me what sort of move we could make to improve the rotation that would be worth the assets it would take to get the deal done.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#287 » by Mystical Apples » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:34 pm

catsfan wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:
As for Frank, CHA's defensive eFG% with Kaminsky is actually quite good. Last year he was 2nd after Lamb in dead ball eFG and it's been tracking that way since mid-November. The problem has been requiring Frank to contest everywhere in Clifford's endless pursuit of using his PF to surrender zero in the paint....and then rebounding in below average defensive rebounding lineups. With Hibbert the result is too many Orebs, without Hibbert too many opponent 3PA.


it's odd because last year frank did much better defensively with al in the 2nd unit. was that because al never follows a screener out of the paint? hibbert always shows high/hedges but can't even come close to getting back into defensive position. it is an instant rotational scramble for the other 3 defenders. frank can only play center against a few of the smaller centers right now.


Frank is a talented PnR defender to help onto 5's or in perimeter PnP. His skill set is ideally suited to generate paint defense in the absence of a basket protector and Clifford rode this all last season. Except problematically it stretches Frank thin and isn't nearly as effective without defense @ 2/3 + rebounding @ 5. Al and Spencer are good individual rebounders, Roy is not. Collectively Lamb-Lin-Batum was a good defensive trio, Sessions-Marco-? is.....you be the judge.

Also, Al rarely turned it turnover or fouled which boosts defensive efficiency. Personally, I believe Hibbert + Frank + Lamb will be great defensively but the real concern is offense.....IMO why Clifford may play Cody through Q1 and why he currently delays Lamb's minutes until Q2.

This chart from 2015-16 shows Spot Up Defensive Frequency vs PnR Defensive Frequency. Identifying the Center-PF-Wings for each team is a good indication how personnel is used per the coach's philosphy. For example look at Frank, Lamb, and Al.....Clifford extended Frank like no other NBA PF which is only possible with Lamb + rebounding. Clifford won't need to do this with Roy, ultimately leading to fewer opponent 3PA.

Red + % = Rim protecting outlier (ie Gobert 95 percentile, Scola 5 percentile)
Green = top 30% rim protection (look at Marvin)
Blue = above average rim protection value

X axis = Spot Up Defensive Frequency (perimeter defense)
Y axis = PnR Defensive Frequency

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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#288 » by Mystical Apples » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:25 pm

catsfan wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:


it's odd because last year frank did much better defensively with al in the 2nd unit. was that because al never follows a screener out of the paint? hibbert always shows high/hedges but can't even come close to getting back into defensive position. it is an instant rotational scramble for the other 3 defenders. frank can only play center against a few of the smaller centers right now.

what backup center could you flip hibbert and a pick for that provide defense/rim protection but won't cost you lamb and/or belli off the second unit? or do you look to upgrade marv on the starting unit, knock him back to an very expensive 6th man and run frank at center anyway?


I think upgrading backup C is a low priority for Charlotte's FO. Hibbert and Sessions were signed to 1 year deals for a reason so I doubt they'd take on LT money or an expiring C for > 2nd rounder.

If the goal is an expiring contract candidates are Bogut and Withey. A splashier long-term move would be someone like Nurkic who's on a cheap deal but costs $$$$ in assets. Hernangomez too but NYK would be dumb to trade him. IMO Noel is only an option if cost allows renouncing him next summer if needed.....something like Hawes + 1st + Christian at least clears $6.5M in the process.

Hollis Thompson is the cheap Philly guy I'd look at.

BTW I'm still a huge believer in Marvin Williams.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#289 » by Mystical Apples » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:55 pm

Snidely FC wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:CHA needs a non-sticky wing who defends and shoots a little and shifts 3 players closer to their side roles. Sefelosha, Miles, Tucker.

any of those 3 guys would be a good addition

I also like Jared Dudley or Omri Casspi

Would you include Jeremy Lamb to get any of these guys, cuz I'm thinking he'd be required in any such deals?

Mystical Apples wrote:The remedy is a mobile 5 who rebounds (not exactly cheap or growing on trees). Or move Frank to 5 and add perimeter length to switch and Dreb. I'd tinker with Marco at pg and Frank at C + 3 wings. It could also create a path for Lamb to become the "scoring pg" that he is but has been a challenge to accommodate.

I really believe mgmt overreacted to the MIA playoff loss in signing a "shot blocker", Whiteside didn't "destroy" us until Cody was down to one leg. I understand mgmt getting a discount on Hibbert, but Roy's immobility kills this teams pnr on both sides of the ball. The guy I wanted this offseason was Tyler Zeller, I think his mobility would perpetuate Cliff's sets on o & d, while team defense would continue to protect the rim. Tyler still somewhat buried on Bos' chart, would they take:

Hibbert + Christian Wood for Tyler Zeller?


I think if Lamb is moved it'll be somewhat motivated by 2017 cap space. I'd keep Lamb unless an ideal expiring became available which IMO isn't Casspi.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#290 » by Eoghan » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:51 am

Maybe Cho pulls Afflalo off the Kings' scrap heap like he did Marco. He's been after that AA for a long time.

Charlotte In: A. Afflalo & huge Greek guy
Sacto In: R. Hibbert & S. Hawes

Eh?

Wait, forgot Hawes burned bridges in Sacramento. How about Afflalo and DUI Lawson for Hibbert and Sessions?
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#291 » by Diop » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:01 am

Eoghan wrote:Maybe Cho pulls Afflalo off the Kings' scrap heap like he did Marco. He's been after that AA for a long time.

Charlotte In: A. Afflalo & huge Greek guy
Sacto In: R. Hibbert & S. Hawes

Eh?

Wait, forgot Hawes burned bridges in Sacramento. How about Afflalo and DUI Lawson for Hibbert and Sessions?

Perfect Charlotte reclamation project, I still believe we do nothing
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#292 » by HornetJail » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:17 am

Afflalo has basically quit on the last two teams that gave him money. Don't see the need for us since he hasn't played defense in years either and isn't as good a shooter as Marco.
investigate Adam Silver
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#293 » by fatlever » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:16 am

topic of discussion...

Two questions

1. Who has a higher trade value right now, MKG or Cody? Their contracts are fairly similar so no real need to bring contracts into the equation, unless you feel that one contract vs the other adds or removes value. In that case you can answer as highest value contracts included and not included.

2. If the Hornets had to trade one of Cody or MKG who would you rather keep between the two?

I bring this up because up until the past few weeks these two questions were really easy to answer. MKG had the higher trade value, even probably when he was hurt and I think Hornets fans would have been damn near unanimous in wanting MKG over Cody. Cody has really closed the gap this year by improving, finding a true position, while at the same time, MKG's growth seems to have plateaued (or even regresssed).
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#294 » by Diop » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:23 am

I still think MKG has the higher value at the moment, I constantly change my mind on who I would rather keep.

It all depends on who we get. If we were sticking to scoring mainly from the guards, then I would want Cody for his hyper screening skills
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#295 » by bravor » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:28 am

Among the players to target, one name i don't remember seeing here : Jonathan Simmons. He will be RFA and he could be a great fit to replace Lamb or Belinelli (depending on who is moving).
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#296 » by catsfan » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:29 pm

fatlever wrote:topic of discussion...

Two questions

1. Who has a higher trade value right now, MKG or Cody? Their contracts are fairly similar so no real need to bring contracts into the equation, unless you feel that one contract vs the other adds or removes value. In that case you can answer as highest value contracts included and not included.

2. If the Hornets had to trade one of Cody or MKG who would you rather keep between the two?

I bring this up because up until the past few weeks these two questions were really easy to answer. MKG had the higher trade value, even probably when he was hurt and I think Hornets fans would have been damn near unanimous in wanting MKG over Cody. Cody has really closed the gap this year by improving, finding a true position, while at the same time, MKG's growth seems to have plateaued (or even regresssed).


1. since centers generally have a lower value these days, i would say mkg. not sure how many savy gm's are out there that really value what cody can do. offensively, cody is much more important than mkg and defensively, i am not sure the mkg is irreplaceable.

2. i would trade mkg but there needs to be a 2017 summer plan for the sg/sf position. gordon hayward would be ideal.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#297 » by KembaSlice » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:29 pm

Hope we are looking into the Noel and Gay situations
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#298 » by catch20two » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:21 pm

If Cho can sell the Sixers on Belly's hot shooting streak for Noel he is the GOAT.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#299 » by yosemiteben » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:19 pm

catch20two wrote:If Cho can sell the Sixers on Belly's hot shooting streak for Noel he is the GOAT.

Don't think that would make much sense for PHI in terms of where they are in their rebuild. By the time Simmons and Embiid are fully online with a little experience Marco is going to be a 32 year old URFA. Would think if they move Noel it'll be with someone either on a long term deal or a younger guy that is more likely to stick around and be productive as they grow.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#300 » by mrknowitall215 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:45 pm

I wouldn't be adverse to Cho swinging a trade of MKG, Zeller, and a 1st rounder for Demarcus Cousins at all. It's a risk worthy of the possibility of putting Charlotte over the hump to become a contender. I think a trio of Kemba-Batum-Cousins would make the Hornets the second best team in the East with a possibility to trump Cleveland
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