Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[thamadkant]

Is Okafor's defense fixable?

Was Archie's jump shot? I don't know how to answer that. People will tell you defense is all about effort but that's not entirely true. You need to understand the scheme, have sound fundamentals, know when to take risks, and most importantly you have to always be engaged. That is the difference between a good defender and a mediocre one. I don't know a damn thing about Okafor other than he has legitimate NBA post skills, which is something the Suns need. You'd have to get a scout or coach to fill in the rest.

No in the NBA can really guard each other... Well except players who got it due to size and not skills.



Defense is 50% effort 50% knowledge... Having great size and length help in implementing both aspects.

Okafor is 20

If people here thinks Booker will lift himself above the negative defender status one day... Then its fair to think Okafor... Who is same age as Booker and posted more impressive defensive numbers as a rookie will also improve... Assuming he gets the right coach.

[bwgood77]

as ive stated 10,000,000,000 times, id rather have Noel than Okafor.

Give me the Guy who can get 10/10/2/2 with stellar defense over a guy who gets 20/10 but also gives up 20 points on the defensive side.

There is just separate talk of Okafor deals right now because now Colangelo has said he is intrigued about the possible pairing of Embiid/Noel going forward, so now people are looking at Okafor deals.

[TeamTragic]

as ive stated 10,000,000,000 times, id rather have Noel than Okafor.

Give me the Guy who can get 10/10/2/2 with stellar defense over a guy who gets 20/10 but also gives up 20 points on the defensive side.

There is just separate talk of Okafor deals right now because now Colangelo has said he is intrigued about the possible pairing of Embiid/Noel going forward, so now people are looking at Okafor deals.

Then why was Noel removed from their rotation?

[bwgood77]

as ive stated 10,000,000,000 times, id rather have Noel than Okafor.

Give me the Guy who can get 10/10/2/2 with stellar defense over a guy who gets 20/10 but also gives up 20 points on the defensive side.

There is just separate talk of Okafor deals right now because now Colangelo has said he is intrigued about the possible pairing of Embiid/Noel going forward, so now people are looking at Okafor deals.

Then why was Noel removed from their rotation?

I have no idea what is going on there, but there is probably a good chance they will end up trading Noel. There were just a bunch of confusing comments from Colangelo that made people start talking more about Okafor now. I read a long article about it the other day where you could find some stuff. Looks like he shortened it over the last 12 hours and summarized it.

Read on Twitter

But, for tonight's game.

Read on Twitter

The original most confusing tweet the day after that report you mention came out:

Read on Twitter

[OGBAH]

Bird man is out and maybe JR hmmm

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hb3xmzx lol

[Qwigglez]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5vprsw

Add in their 1st round pick top 3 protected.

[DirtyDez]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5vprsw

Add in their 1st round pick top 3 protected.

That would be too big a risk if it was top-1 protected.

[Zelaznyrules]

Is Okafor's defense fixable?

Was Archie's jump shot? I don't know how to answer that. People will tell you defense is all about effort but that's not entirely true. You need to understand the scheme, have sound fundamentals, know when to take risks, and most importantly you have to always be engaged. That is the difference between a good defender and a mediocre one. I don't know a damn thing about Okafor other than he has legitimate NBA post skills, which is something the Suns need. You'd have to get a scout or coach to fill in the rest.

No in the NBA can really guard each other... Well except players who got it due to size and not skills.



Defense is 50% effort 50% knowledge... Having great size and length help in implementing both aspects.

Okafor is 20

If people here thinks Booker will lift himself above the negative defender status one day... Then its fair to think Okafor... Who is same age as Booker and posted more impressive defensive numbers as a rookie will also improve... Assuming he gets the right coach.

I think you underrate the importance of "effort" when it comes to defense. I'd put it closer to 95% effort/desire. The vast majority of players that have the skill, athleticism and size to play the game at this level already have the physical tools to be effective on D. And most of the knowledge they need has to do with understanding their role within a team concept which isn't exactly rocket science and learning it is also primarily a function of effort and desire. Okafor shows no desire to defend.

It's also a huge stretch to think that simply because two people don't excel at something that each therefore has an equal chance to change their futures. Booker, prior to the injury, showed both the desire and the effort to succeed on defense, something I've yet to see from Okafor. Neither one of them is particularly fleet of foot but Okafor is much more challeged in this regard than Booker is, even adjusting for position.

I don't believe either one of them is efficient enough offensively to justify living with their poor defense. If you think that we are looking at a healthy Booker and he is playing this poorly because the league has caught on to him, then it's probably time to find a new shooting guard. Myself, I don't think he's anywhere near healthy. To me he's a half step slower than pre-injury and he lacks the explosion I'm used to seeing from him. But regardless, I'm not sure it's ever the right time to add a center that dominates the ball, does not pass out of the double team, possesses limited range, has a very uninspiring true shooting percentage, carries off court baggage and complements all that with horrible defense.

I don't think a good coach will ever turn him into a good defender although slightly below average might be within his reach. However, I do think the right coach might be able to turn him into a force down low on offense. It's an incredible advantage to have a big that is so effective down low that it forces a regular double team. But if you can't get him to find the open man before that double team shuts him down, you're just throwing that advantage out the window.

Recognizing the double and finding the open man can be taught, I don't know Jahlil well enough to know if it can be learned though. A lot of that has to do with the makeup of the man, not his physical skills. If I were in charge of Philly, I'd hang onto him and gamble I could turn him into that better version of himself. But if I were running some other team, I don't know if I'd gamble away a lot of assets to try and acquire such a risky player. My limit would probably be Knight, Tucker and a lottery protected pick. And frankly, that's not much of a return for a big that was drafted number 3 just a year and a half ago.

[WeekapaugGroove]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j5vprsw

Add in their 1st round pick top 3 protected.

Thats risky deal because if Dallas hits top 3 that pick could be in the teens next year. But maybe a risk worth taking because two top 10 picks in this draft would be great. Personally id see if there are better bledsoe or chandler deals to be had but if nothing better is on the table by February then id have to consider it.

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[Villalobos]

If Terry Stotts gets fired, the Suns need to toss Watson and his yoga mats in the trash (and close the lid) and run as fast as they can to hire him.

[Scutt]

Bright Side has a good article on the Suns : http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/12/20/13932644/just-how-young-are-the-phoenix-suns

I really feel like this same scenario has been playing out since the beginning of the 2013-2014 season. Unfortunately that 2014 team overachieved to 48 wins and it is still haunting us. The Suns have never been fully committed to rebuilding through the draft and developing their young players. They are always trying to straddle the fence between chasing the 8th seed with veterans and rebuilding with youth.

I think it is pretty obvious that all that talk from Sarver over the summer about removing playoff expectations was just a guise. I bet anything he was hoping that Booker would take the next step, and that combined with our group of vets, the team could surprise people and let them sneak into the 8th spot. Then the front office could sell us on how bright our future is because we have a "young" team that made the playoffs.


What I would like to see:

Warren, Len, and Booker should be our established core, all playing together and getting starter minutes. Those 3 players have each shown that they can be decent level starters in the NBA and they have the right attitudes. They are also young enough that they still have the potential to improve. Especially if we could ever manage to get a real coach with an offensive system and a pg that can implement it. No more selfish undersized combo guards!

Bender, Chriss, and Ulis should all be getting regular rotation minutes at this point. I would love to see us trade PJ Tucker and Brandon Knight before the deadline. Just trade them for expiring contracts if you have to, then roll the rest of the season with a starting lineup of Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Bender, and Len. Ulis, Barbosa,Dudley, Chriss, and Chandler make up the bench. Then draft a pg with our pick and look to trade Bledsoe in the off season. I would like to see them get a coach who is experienced and has a reputation for player development.

I like Mcd and I think he has a good eye for talent and wants to build the team the right way. I think most of his mistakes stem from pressure from Sarver for quick results, though the Watson hiring is still puzzling. If Sarver can truly accept building though the draft, then I think Mcd should be extended. Finally, I would like Len to be resigned and Chandler moved if he is unwilling to be the backup veteran presence. Is that too much to ask for?

[ryanball]

I agree. I've seen every game and I dont like what I see. Its free style basketball... Players playing one on five offensively and no direction or guidance from coaching on court.

Yeah. I'm feeling down on Watson right now, I think he's a pretty major detriment to this team.

I'm fine with not getting wins, that is expected with our roster. And if he's instructed to play PJ a ton of minutes for whatever reason that's fine, not his fault. But there is no excuse for our apparent lack of a scheme or system here. There's no way he's getting pressure from ownership to not run plays, have virtually no action or movement on offense, and let Booker take terrible shots over and over.

[Zelaznyrules]

If Terry Stotts gets fired, the Suns need to toss Watson and his yoga mats in the trash (and close the lid) and run as fast as they can to hire him.

I'm not happy with the minutes distribution so far but I think this kind of move reeks of panic and sends the wrong message to the team and the league. Bad organizations do what you're suggesting, I'm hoping we aren't quite that bad. And it takes time to build a team, especially one loaded with youth, just look what Thibs is going through in Minnesota.

Like most of us, I'm frustrated by the lack of playing time for our young guys but rookies (and even second year players) usually run down during the season anyway. With a little bit of luck, Knight and a couple members of the geriatric set will be on their way by mid-February and Booker, TJ, Bender, Ulis, Len, Chriss and even Jones JR will all be playing significant minutes.

[nevetsov]

Kings
Out: Gay, Afflalo ($26m)
In: Knight, Tucker, E'twuan Moore ($26m)

Knight, Collison
Mclemore, Moore
Tucker, Barnes
Koufos, Tolliver
Cousins, Cauley-Stein

Moves the malcontents for the the PG they need, and some guy called Knight. Jokes aside, they shuffle the deckchairs on the titanic in an attempt to appease Cousins. Knight could excel there with the ball in his hands and Tucker could bring some grit to a team that gave up long ago.

Hornets:
Out: Sol Hill, Tyreke, Moore, Galloway, Ajinca ($38m)
In: Gay, Afflalo, Chandler ($38m)

Holiday, Frasier
Afflalo, Hield
Gay, Cunningham
Davis, T Jones
Chandler, Asik

New Orleans pick up some discounted pieces that upgrade them at 3 positions and put enough experience around Brow to at least make them competitive through his prime.

Suns
Out: Knight, Chandler, Tucker ($30m)
In: Sol Hill ($11m/4), Galloway ($5m/2), Ajinca ($4m/3), Evans ($10m expiring/cut)

Bledsoe, Galloway, Ulis
Booker, Barbosa, Jenkins
Warren, Hill, Jones JR
Chriss, Dudley, Bender
Len, Williams, Ajinca

Cut our losses for a bit of moveable bench bait, some of which might have value as cheap role players. The kicker is we clear the deck for the youth movement by swapping low end starters for mid level bench guys.

Solomon Hill might be able to get us a pick from somewhere.

I'm sure we could nab a pick from NOH as well.

[Jarlaxle0204]

Bright Side has a good article on the Suns : http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/12/20/13932644/just-how-young-are-the-phoenix-suns
What I would like to see:

Warren, Len, and Booker should be our established core, all playing together and getting starter minutes. Those 3 players have each shown that they can be decent level starters in the NBA and they have the right attitudes. They are also young enough that they still have the potential to improve. Especially if we could ever manage to get a real coach with an offensive system and a pg that can implement it. No more selfish undersized combo guards!

Bender, Chriss, and Ulis should all be getting regular rotation minutes at this point. I would love to see us trade PJ Tucker and Brandon Knight before the deadline. Just trade them for expiring contracts if you have to, then roll the rest of the season with a starting lineup of Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Bender, and Len. Ulis, Barbosa,Dudley, Chriss, and Chandler make up the bench. Then draft a pg with our pick and look to trade Bledsoe in the off season.

If Sarver can truly accept building though the draft, then I think Mcd should be extended. Finally, I would like Len to be resigned and Chandler moved if he is unwilling to be the backup veteran presence. Is that too much to ask for?

I'm totally 100% in agreement with all that I've quoted.

I find this section of the article to be spot on:

“Our veterans are who they are,” Watson told Zach Lowe recently. “The only room to grow is through the young guys. Their development is better than a trade. It can happen at any time. Dragan [Bender] is getting better. Marquese [Chriss] is getting better. Tyler Ulis ... we just have too many guys.”

McDonough needs to clear the roster just a little bit, for all of our sakes.

And at some point, Watson needs to shift the minutes distribution a little more to the young side.

It seems like everyone can see it. Hopefully the best deals possible will be made.

[WeekapaugGroove]

JR Smith out for an extended period and bird man out for the year. Injuries are starting to stack up for them and they might need to add reinforcements. Id love to send a vet or two their way. They owe portland their 2018 pick so first one they can deal would be 2020 but id happily take that for tucker and id even throw in barbosa.

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[WeekapaugGroove]

Bright Side has a good article on the Suns : http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/12/20/13932644/just-how-young-are-the-phoenix-suns
What I would like to see:

Warren, Len, and Booker should be our established core, all playing together and getting starter minutes. Those 3 players have each shown that they can be decent level starters in the NBA and they have the right attitudes. They are also young enough that they still have the potential to improve. Especially if we could ever manage to get a real coach with an offensive system and a pg that can implement it. No more selfish undersized combo guards!

Bender, Chriss, and Ulis should all be getting regular rotation minutes at this point. I would love to see us trade PJ Tucker and Brandon Knight before the deadline. Just trade them for expiring contracts if you have to, then roll the rest of the season with a starting lineup of Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Bender, and Len. Ulis, Barbosa,Dudley, Chriss, and Chandler make up the bench. Then draft a pg with our pick and look to trade Bledsoe in the off season.

If Sarver can truly accept building though the draft, then I think Mcd should be extended. Finally, I would like Len to be resigned and Chandler moved if he is unwilling to be the backup veteran presence. Is that too much to ask for?

I'm totally 100% in agreement with all that I've quoted.

I find this section of the article to be spot on:

“Our veterans are who they are,” Watson told Zach Lowe recently. “The only room to grow is through the young guys. Their development is better than a trade. It can happen at any time. Dragan [Bender] is getting better. Marquese [Chriss] is getting better. Tyler Ulis ... we just have too many guys.”

McDonough needs to clear the roster just a little bit, for all of our sakes.

And at some point, Watson needs to shift the minutes distribution a little more to the young side.

It seems like everyone can see it. Hopefully the best deals possible will be made.

I think most of us are of this mindset. I know some posters like Frank hate the draft and hope approach but to me it's just the most realistic way for this team to get good again. I'm all for acquiring talent by all avenues but I just don't see a star walking through the door as a FA next summer and the trade market is tricky since guys like Cousins who might be available have question marks surrounding them and if they do hit the market they will have multiple teams bidding so the cost will be high. Plus say you are able to trade for a star after giving a big package would this team be good enough around them to compete? Probably not; so then you could end up with a disgruntled star who might be leaving when their contract is up. Organic growth is the most clear path but it's going to take patience and some luck.

[AtheJ415]

Bright Side has a good article on the Suns : http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/12/20/13932644/just-how-young-are-the-phoenix-suns
What I would like to see:

Warren, Len, and Booker should be our established core, all playing together and getting starter minutes. Those 3 players have each shown that they can be decent level starters in the NBA and they have the right attitudes. They are also young enough that they still have the potential to improve. Especially if we could ever manage to get a real coach with an offensive system and a pg that can implement it. No more selfish undersized combo guards!

Bender, Chriss, and Ulis should all be getting regular rotation minutes at this point. I would love to see us trade PJ Tucker and Brandon Knight before the deadline. Just trade them for expiring contracts if you have to, then roll the rest of the season with a starting lineup of Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Bender, and Len. Ulis, Barbosa,Dudley, Chriss, and Chandler make up the bench. Then draft a pg with our pick and look to trade Bledsoe in the off season.

If Sarver can truly accept building though the draft, then I think Mcd should be extended. Finally, I would like Len to be resigned and Chandler moved if he is unwilling to be the backup veteran presence. Is that too much to ask for?

I'm totally 100% in agreement with all that I've quoted.

I find this section of the article to be spot on:

“Our veterans are who they are,” Watson told Zach Lowe recently. “The only room to grow is through the young guys. Their development is better than a trade. It can happen at any time. Dragan [Bender] is getting better. Marquese [Chriss] is getting better. Tyler Ulis ... we just have too many guys.”

McDonough needs to clear the roster just a little bit, for all of our sakes.

And at some point, Watson needs to shift the minutes distribution a little more to the young side.

It seems like everyone can see it. Hopefully the best deals possible will be made.

I think most of us are of this mindset. I know some posters like Frank hate the draft and hope approach but to me it's just the most realistic way for this team to get good again. I'm all for acquiring talent by all avenues but I just don't see a star walking through the door as a FA next summer and the trade market is tricky since guys like Cousins who might be available have question marks surrounding them and if they do hit the market they will have multiple teams bidding so the cost will be high. Plus say you are able to trade for a star after giving a big package would this team be good enough around them to compete? Probably not; so then you could end up with a disgruntled star who might be leaving when their contract is up. Organic growth is the most clear path but it's going to take patience and some luck.

Exactly. If you want to get back to contention, our best course is not to gut our assets for a superstar and try to more successfully build around him than his former team. For instance, trading everybody for Cousins makes us the Kings, not a contender. Signing him in FA if he ever becomes available would be a different ball game.

The draft is our best friend here, and we've done well in it. Sucking for a couple more years and hitting with our picks is the best bet. We still need upgrades at C, PG, and probably as a backup wing (2-3). We could accomplish all of these if we get high picks in the next couple of drafts and build from within. Free agency is also a better avenue because you give up cap space but not picks to acquire guys.

If we continue to add guys 25 and under who fit the style of play we are attempting to run, trade the current vets who still have value or who are in the way of the youngsters, and then add guys via draft and FA, we will be so much better set up for the long haul than in the future.

I'm pretty confident in Booker and Warren and one of Chriss/Bender becoming damn good. We just need backups for those guys and starters at the 1 and 5. Len can be the 5 in a more limited role, and I think he's shown that thus far.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zzkgjpj

Minny adds its 2017 1st, unprotected.

[King4Day]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zzkgjpj

Minny adds its 2017 1st, unprotected.

I think I'd do this. Minny would be a contender next year with that team I think.

EDIT: Rethinking this, I believe we'd need a bit more. Pek won't do much for us and I'd sense we would buyout both he and Hill. The pick is probably not going to be high lottery after the trade.