Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 2: End This Knightmare!

[Frank Lee]

I'll try a trade since I'm feeling creative this morning:

Timberwolves out: Wiggins, Rubio, Dunn
Timberwolves in: Bledsoe, Gay, Noel, Mia 1st 2018

76ers out: Noel
76ers in: Dunn

Suns out: Bledsoe, Mia 1st 2018
Suns in: Wiggins

Kings out: Gay
Kings in: Rubio

Really like this trade. To me it makes a lot of sense for all. If there was a way we could flip Knight for Rubio I would do that too, because he's a much better playmaker for our youth. SAC needs shooting at the PG spot to complement Cousins' inside game.

I don't see why Minny would trade their first and second string PGs AND Wiggins too... I don't think they'd swap Rubio for Bled straight up. I wouldn't

[lilfishi22]

That trade is awesome for us but I don't see a single reason why Minny would do it. Minny aren't looking to compete now and are already well on their way to creating what is potentially a superstar core for the future.

[DirtyDez]

With Bled's health concerns and Noel's character concerns I don't see Minnesota even considering that. Thibbs loves Wiggins.

[nevetsov]

Building on Jar's trade idea, what about the following then. Note this is based on the PHX-MIN rumours:

Suns out/ Min in: Bledsoe, Chandler, Tucker
Min out/ Suns in: Rubio, Pekovic (done), Mohammed

Suns out/ Kings in: Knight
Kings out/ Suns in: Koufos, Collison (exp)

Rubio, Ulis
Booker, Mohammed
Warren, Bender
Chriss, Bender
Len, Koufos, Williams

Barbs, Dudley, Jones Jr = cheer squad
Pekovic = done
Collison = cut

Draft a Rubio replacement next year.

[lilfishi22]

Building on Jar's trade idea, what about the following then. Note this is based on the PHX-MIN rumours:

Suns out/ Min in: Bledsoe, Chandler, Tucker
Min out/ Suns in: Rubio, Pekovic (done), Mohammed

Suns out/ Kings in: Knight
Kings out/ Suns in: Koufos, Collison (exp)

Rubio, Ulis
Booker, Mohammed
Warren, Bender
Chriss, Bender
Len, Koufos, Williams

Barbs, Dudley, Jones Jr = cheer squad
Pekovic = done
Collison = cut

Draft a Rubio replacement next year.

We're giving up A LOT for guys we're going to cut. Bledsoe alone should have value equal to if not much greater than Rubio.

[Villalobos]

I don't want to sound like a hater, but the Timberwolves hype annoys me.

I don't want Wiggins or Lavine. Lavine is a much better shooter than Booker right now, but he has zero BBIQ and even worse defense. I don't think Wiggins is appreciably better than Warren (if I'm being honest I don't think he's better at all because he's a much worse defender). If Warren can't develop a consistent 3pt shot then the Suns might need to upgrade that spot, but Wiggins isn't the guy imo, and certainly not by giving up a bunch of stuff. Not that the Thibs wants to get rid of Wiggins anyway...yet.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5

80 of 80 in DRPM out of Small Forwards. Warren's is -0.20 versus Wiggin's -2.43. DPM is -1.4 versus -3.1.

[nevetsov]

Building on Jar's trade idea, what about the following then. Note this is based on the PHX-MIN rumours:

Suns out/ Min in: Bledsoe, Chandler, Tucker
Min out/ Suns in: Rubio, Pekovic (done), Mohammed

Suns out/ Kings in: Knight
Kings out/ Suns in: Koufos, Collison (exp)

Rubio, Ulis
Booker, Mohammed
Warren, Bender
Chriss, Bender
Len, Koufos, Williams

Barbs, Dudley, Jones Jr = cheer squad
Pekovic = done
Collison = cut

Draft a Rubio replacement next year.

We're giving up A LOT for guys we're going to cut. Bledsoe alone should have value equal to if not much greater than Rubio.

Of the guys we give up, which of them other than Bled has significant value? Chandler might be worth a late first, but Tucker and Knight have zero. If they did, they'd be gone by now.

Like you said, Bled might be a better player than Rubio, but for us, Rubio seems to be a better fit as a natural playmaker. If developing youth is our priority, there's a case to be made that Rubio is a better fit.

You add to this the roster clean up/ opportunities opened up for the young guys currently buried on the bench, and there's an element of additon-by-subtraction that holds value to us as well.

If you consider:
Bled = Rubio
Knight = Mohammed
Tyson = cost of accelerating youth movement
Tucker dump = Collison dump

The only other cost to us is eating Pekovic, which is not an issue given we will be so far below the salary floor. He's probably due for medical retirement anyway.

[nevetsov]

^^ Edit: thought about trying to nab Dieng as well, but figured I was just being greedy.

Maybe flick Koufos to from PHX to MIN, for Dieng and filler if that evens out the value.

[Damkac]

I just don't see how more draft picks are going to work, when we can't even find playing time for 2/3 of last year's draft. One of which was #4 overall.

We draft a PG, it pushes Ulis down the order.
We draft a wing, him or Warren becomes a bench player.
We draft a big... Good luck with that.

Until we make some moves, all these picks seem wasted to me. And if we make trades, what's coming back? More picks? More players who will be given playing time?

We need to start consolidating this roster before assets depreciate further.

Not playing Tucker 40 minutes a game would help a lot.

[lilfishi22]

Of the guys we give up, which of them other than Bled has significant value? Chandler might be worth a late first, but Tucker and Knight have zero. If they did, they'd be gone by now.

Like you said, Bled might be a better player than Rubio, but for us, Rubio seems to be a better fit as a natural playmaker. If developing youth is our priority, there's a case to be made that Rubio is a better fit.

You add to this the roster clean up/ opportunities opened up for the young guys currently buried on the bench, and there's an element of additon-by-subtraction that holds value to us as well.

If you consider:
Bled = Rubio
Knight = Mohammed
Tyson = cost of accelerating youth movement
Tucker dump = Collison dump

The only other cost to us is eating Pekovic, which is not an issue given we will be so far below the salary floor. He's probably due for medical retirement anyway.

This move is great for a contending (playoff/title) team looking to offload useless assets (Pek) and getting an upgrade at the PG. Minny aren't in playoff picture so it makes little sense for them to offload assets they could easily and happily keep. For a team not looking to compete, adding Bledsoe and Chandler doesn't make a ton of sense and if that's the case, I don't think we're maximising the return value of Bledsoe and Chandler .

^^ Edit: thought about trying to nab Dieng as well, but figured I was just being greedy.

Now, if they are looking to be a playoff team next season and players like Bledsoe and Chandler can help them on that quest, then I'd be asking for a Dieng in return.

[Saberestar]

On Zach Lowe’s “The Lowe Post” podcast, ESPN reporter Brian Windhorst said the Suns have discussed Knight with the Sacramento Kings for some time. Now, whether informal discussion means much at all is up for guessing.

“It’s hard to read Sacramento. Sacramento talks a lot but then never does anything, so Sacramento’s very frustrating to people,” Windhorst said. “I know that Sacramento has been talking to Phoenix about Brandon Knight since the summer. Will that ultimately get done? I don’t know, but it’s out there.”

Knight has been linked to the Kings simply because they are one of few teams in need of an established point guard with Darren Collison and Ty Lawson splitting time at present.

http://arizonasports.com/story/971678/brandon-knight-trade-discussed-kings-suns/

[bwgood77]

Time for a new thread! Continued from: viewtopic.php?p=50704609#p50704609

So who exactly would we be interested in from the Wolves (That also might be available)?

Read on Twitter

Wolfson is rock solid on Wolves stuff.

Ha, I copied this exact quote from Andre and was going to post it here but then remembered gaspar posted the actual Wolfson tweet a couple days before that this guy is referring to.

Can we please get a Christmas deal? You need to create a gif with Santa and his sleigh carrying Knight and Tucker in the back of it as if to deliver them somewhere.

[bwgood77]

On Zach Lowe’s “The Lowe Post” podcast, ESPN reporter Brian Windhorst said the Suns have discussed Knight with the Sacramento Kings for some time. Now, whether informal discussion means much at all is up for guessing.

“It’s hard to read Sacramento. Sacramento talks a lot but then never does anything, so Sacramento’s very frustrating to people,” Windhorst said. “I know that Sacramento has been talking to Phoenix about Brandon Knight since the summer. Will that ultimately get done? I don’t know, but it’s out there.”

Knight has been linked to the Kings simply because they are one of few teams in need of an established point guard with Darren Collison and Ty Lawson splitting time at present.

http://arizonasports.com/story/971678/brandon-knight-trade-discussed-kings-suns/

I think we should figure a three way deal with Knight to the Kings, Gay to OKC, and maybe we get something from OKC? A pick would be nice but they may be hesitant since Westbrook's future is still in limbo and could rather give up a prospect. Honestly though, I'd take a pretty heavily protected one for him or even a pretty heavily protected one in the future for him.

Ultimately I'd probably take just about anything for him as long as it was an unnecessary player that just adds salary. I just don't know if we need another avg player.

[lilfishi22]

How protected are you thinking bw? Lotto protected or something like top 20?

[bwgood77]

How protected are you thinking bw? Lotto protected or something like top 20?

For a pick coming back from OKC? Just got done researching it. Was thinking probably top 20 protected would be what I'd put on the trade board, but they have already traded their first round picks in 2018 and 2020 so they can't trade a first rounder, and they've traded their second rounder this year. I also researched some of their players they might trade. I just can't see what we'd want, unless we just wanted to get out of the contract, take Anthony Morrow and a couple of 2nds in like 2018 and 19. I don't think many here would think that is worth it.

Maybe if Sac wants him, just take a flyer on McLemore and then deal Tucker and maybe take back Casspi if need be, but of course I wouldn't want him taking time from Bender either. http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

[Kerrsed]

Well, this idea stemmed from the PHX/SAC/OKC Knight Challenge, but started to snowball.

SAC gets Bledsoe/Chandler - Get themselves a real PG that also helps Cousins in staying and maybe keeping his cool. Chandler gives them the defensive force in the paint, and another battle tested vet that could help control and mentor Cousins. Tucker could also be thrown in if need be, as it also works in the trade machine.
Bledsoe/McLemore/Barnes(or Tucker)/Cousins/Chandler

OKC gets Gay/Afflalo/WCS - They get an immediate upgrade at SF with Gay. Afflalo gives them the seasoned 3 and D at the SG spot. WCS still is young and has the potential to be a great star in this league if given the opportunity, one that he isnt and wont get with the Kings while being stuck behind Cousins. A future pick might also have to be added to their haul.
Westbrook/Afflalo/Gay/Sabonis/Addams

PHX gets Oladipo/Kanter - Oladipo at his more natural PG spot for us. I think his game is currently being stunted by Westbrook being not only the PG of the team, but as the beast of a player that he is. Kanter gives us a Big with a much much much better offense than Len (or Chandler), but also a better defender than Len as well (You wouldnt have expected that, but the advanced stats show his is).Of course as mentioned, we might also have to add Tucker and a pick.
Oladipo/Booker/Warren/Chriss/Kanter

[Saberestar]

Knight for Afflalo and a top 10 protected pick.

[Saberestar]

Well, this idea stemmed from the PHX/SAC/OKC Knight Challenge, but started to snowball.

SAC gets Bledsoe/Chandler - Get themselves a real PG that also helps Cousins in staying and maybe keeping his cool. Chandler gives them the defensive force in the paint, and another battle tested vet that could help control and mentor Cousins. Tucker could also be thrown in if need be, as it also works in the trade machine.
Bledsoe/McLemore/Barnes(or Tucker)/Cousins/Chandler

OKC gets Gay/Afflalo/WCS - They get an immediate upgrade at SF with Gay. Afflalo gives them the seasoned 3 and D at the SG spot. WCS still is young and has the potential to be a great star in this league if given the opportunity, one that he isnt and wont get with the Kings while being stuck behind Cousins. A future pick might also have to be added to their haul.
Westbrook/Afflalo/Gay/Sabonis/Addams

PHX gets Oladipo/Kanter - Oladipo at his more natural PG spot for us. I think his game is currently being stunted by Westbrook being not only the PG of the team, but as the beast of a player that he is. Kanter gives us a Big with a much much much better offense than Len (or Chandler), but also a better defender than Len as well (You wouldnt have expected that, but the advanced stats show his is).Of course as mentioned, we might also have to add Tucker and a pick.
Oladipo/Booker/Warren/Chriss/Kanter

I like Oladipo, but he is not a PG.

I would probably make that trade if we add Knight and receive Cameron Payne.

Payne, Oladipo and Kanter for Knight, Bledsoe and Chandler. I am not sure, but it seems fair.

[bwgood77]

Well, this idea stemmed from the PHX/SAC/OKC Knight Challenge, but started to snowball.

SAC gets Bledsoe/Chandler - Get themselves a real PG that also helps Cousins in staying and maybe keeping his cool. Chandler gives them the defensive force in the paint, and another battle tested vet that could help control and mentor Cousins. Tucker could also be thrown in if need be, as it also works in the trade machine.
Bledsoe/McLemore/Barnes(or Tucker)/Cousins/Chandler

OKC gets Gay/Afflalo/WCS - They get an immediate upgrade at SF with Gay. Afflalo gives them the seasoned 3 and D at the SG spot. WCS still is young and has the potential to be a great star in this league if given the opportunity, one that he isnt and wont get with the Kings while being stuck behind Cousins. A future pick might also have to be added to their haul.
Westbrook/Afflalo/Gay/Sabonis/Addams

PHX gets Oladipo/Kanter - Oladipo at his more natural PG spot for us. I think his game is currently being stunted by Westbrook being not only the PG of the team, but as the beast of a player that he is. Kanter gives us a Big with a much much much better offense than Len (or Chandler), but also a better defender than Len as well (You wouldnt have expected that, but the advanced stats show his is).Of course as mentioned, we might also have to add Tucker and a pick.
Oladipo/Booker/Warren/Chriss/Kanter

ZERO chance OKC goes for that one on the trade boards. Those two are probably the two most important to their team in the entire deal. Bledsoe and Chandler are important to our team right now if we wanted to win, but they are fighting for a top 4 seed and those guys are way more valuable than what they would get back. If they do want Gay they are going to give something up for him, but I don't see who, unless it's Payne, but I don't know that they want to do it. I would if I were them just because you want to make noise, need more scoring, and could re-sign him hopefully. He's never been my favorite player but he's a little bit underrated considering many think he isn't that good.

[Andre Roberstan]

Well, this idea stemmed from the PHX/SAC/OKC Knight Challenge, but started to snowball.

SAC gets Bledsoe/Chandler - Get themselves a real PG that also helps Cousins in staying and maybe keeping his cool. Chandler gives them the defensive force in the paint, and another battle tested vet that could help control and mentor Cousins. Tucker could also be thrown in if need be, as it also works in the trade machine.
Bledsoe/McLemore/Barnes(or Tucker)/Cousins/Chandler

OKC gets Gay/Afflalo/WCS - They get an immediate upgrade at SF with Gay. Afflalo gives them the seasoned 3 and D at the SG spot. WCS still is young and has the potential to be a great star in this league if given the opportunity, one that he isnt and wont get with the Kings while being stuck behind Cousins. A future pick might also have to be added to their haul.
Westbrook/Afflalo/Gay/Sabonis/Addams

PHX gets Oladipo/Kanter - Oladipo at his more natural PG spot for us. I think his game is currently being stunted by Westbrook being not only the PG of the team, but as the beast of a player that he is. Kanter gives us a Big with a much much much better offense than Len (or Chandler), but also a better defender than Len as well (You wouldnt have expected that, but the advanced stats show his is).Of course as mentioned, we might also have to add Tucker and a pick.
Oladipo/Booker/Warren/Chriss/Kanter

ZERO chance OKC goes for that one on the trade boards. Those two are probably the two most important to their team in the entire deal. Bledsoe and Chandler are important to our team right now if we wanted to win, but they are fighting for a top 4 seed and those guys are way more valuable than what they would get back. If they do want Gay they are going to give something up for him, but I don't see who, unless it's Payne, but I don't know that they want to do it. I would if I were them just because you want to make noise, need more scoring, and could re-sign him hopefully. He's never been my favorite player but he's a little bit underrated considering many think he isn't that good.

Absolutely cosigned.

Also, I'm not at my computer, but Oladipo falls under Poison Pill this year and I'd bet a lot of money that Phoenix can't absorb the 40mil of Oladipo's poison pill and Kanter's kicker. This doesn't even work mechanically.

I don't know where you're getting the Oladipo as point guard thing, but just...no. No. Stop it. He's not. He's an SG that can handle as a secondary creator, but the level of floor general that you want running the point...no. He's not that guy.

And he's actually been quite good for us. I actually think he'd be better next to a shooter at PG, but he's just good enough from outside that it's effective, if a bit of a hammer as opposed to a scalpel.

I also think Afflalo is being overrated here, but there are varying opinions on that.