Game 30: Sixers @ Suns

[Djedefre]

What's the point of winning against the worst team in the league with Tucker playing 35, Chandler 33 minutes and yet another DNP for Ulis and Bender?! What is Watson doing? Didn't McD himself say few days ago about trying to win and compete for the playoffs

“Let’s do it the right way,” he said of a potential playoff run. “Let’s not bury Dragan Bender and Marquese Chriss and play the veterans 40 minutes a night to get it.”

?

[LacosteM]

Dragan apprenticing with Williams. #careertrajectory

Just send the poor dude to the DL already, at least he can get some minutes there.

I still think Chriss stands to learn more from a DL stint than Bender though. Chriss can refine his offensive game as a number one option with more touches.

Bender is more of an intangibles guy, who probably gets more benefit from being on the court and supporting Booker, Warren and Len's already established games. He's also already a 2 way player, which is what we desperately need right now.

I don't understand this either. I like Chriss, but how he not only gets minutes, but starts, while Bender gets DNPs is head scratching. But it basically REALLY pisses me off. They should both get as many minutes as they can handle considering where our team is. If we don't trade Tucker soon, or at least by the deadline, this whole organization feels like a joke. Furthermore, if we don't trade AND keep playing him a ton of minutes it will be REALLY hard to retain much optimism, if any, for the GM and coach.

Eh, if Watson's PT redistribution continues I imagine there's only a matter of time before Bender starts feeling resentful. I mean it has to be tough for him seeing Chriss routinely getting abused on defense, giving up on plays, missing defensive assignments and mouthing off to the refs and still being rewarded with the starting spot, while he has to rot on bench, collecting DNP's.

[LacosteM]

What's the point of winning against the worst team in the league with Tucker playing 35, Chandler 33 minutes and yet another DNP for Ulis and Bender?! What is Watson doing? Didn't McD himself say few days ago about trying to win and compete for the playoffs

“Let’s do it the right way,” he said of a potential playoff run. “Let’s not bury Dragan Bender and Marquese Chriss and play the veterans 40 minutes a night to get it.”

?

There is no point. Fans can tolerate losing if the rookies are getting proper minutes, but doing so while playing veterans 35+ mins is unacceptable. Clearly Watson thought nothing of Ryan's statement and will continue to overplay the veterans unless they get traded. Seems like keeping veterans happy is the highest on Watson's priority list.

[thamadkant]

The veterans are obviously more vocal about their roles with Watson.

I cant picture Bender speaking out about minutes... But I can picture Tucker speaking out about his role and demanding more from team mates.... You see him looking like he's about to fight in a UFC match every time he gets called for a foul or anything he doesnt like....

[LacosteM]

The veterans are obviously more vocal about their roles with Watson.

I cant picture Bender speaking out about minutes... But I can picture Tucker speaking out about his role and demanding more from team mates.... You see him looking like he's about to fight in a UFC match every time he gets called for a foul or anything he doesnt like....

I feel like Tucker should have no business complaining about his minutes considering he's already receiving far more than he deserves. Also one thing couple of other posters and I noticed is that whenever him and Bender are on the court, it seems like he's delibaretely trying to freeze him out and often refuses to pass him even when he's wide open.

As for Bender I agree, he's too much of a professional to ever publicly speak out about his minutes, but I bet his resentment will grow if his situation continues.

[m1chal]

We shouldn't have won this game. Also, what do Noel and Okafor's supporters on the board think of their performance last night? I didn't watch the game and their statlines look somewhat unimpressive.

[Fo-Real]

We shouldn't have won this game. Also, what do Noel and Okafor's supporters on the board think of their performance last night? I didn't watch the game and their statlines look somewhat unimpressive.

This game showed us what pisses the Sixers fans off about them. Neither had a positive impact on the game. If you plan to make Jah the focal point of the offense and dump it to him over and over again (don't think you can) he might have an impact, but if he ain't scoring one on one he is invisible. Noel looked average at best, not a threat on offense and just a big warm body on the court. Neither brought energy or impact when on the court.

Our trade able assets (knight, picks mainly) could serve us better elsewhere. We need impact from the pf position. Chriss starting won't help us win games this year, so if we are only worried about developing the young guys, fine, we can't complain about losses and poor overall team play. If we actually want to win games this year consistently, we should get a guy like D Mo and let the kids learn from the pine and vets. Or trade Knight and assets for impact players, and again win some games while still developing the young talent from the pine. Or please some of you, trade anyone over 25 and look like complete **** for a couple years.... would be fun to watch the young kids get demoralized and possibly mentally scarred nightly right?

[Fo-Real]

I really pray that's somebody on the sun staff shows Bledsoe his play from the first half, how different his play was to start the 3rd quarter and how in the fourth quarter him taking over and being the leader/catalyst aggressor made everything different for everybody on our team. When you turned it up they couldn't handle it and Booker followed and begin the score because things got easier and people like Tucker and Chandler play better defense because of the energy. TJ even sHOOK lose for one or two after cutting lanes opened up due to Erick Bledsoe becoming a terror in the 4th.

[TeamTragic]

Why the **** did we win this game? We were literally at the bottom and now Watson decides to beat the worst team in the league? I've been patient with this YMCA coach and then he plays Tucker 35 minutes against the Sixers.

Chriss now only getting 7 minutes. Bender not even getting a minute. Watson has turned this team into a sideshow.

[Djedefre]

I’ll try to take this from the bright side - Watson is riding Tucker and Chandler in order to build up their trade value. Otherwise, he is nothing but a clown.

[thamadkant]

Out of Noel or Okafor, I rather Okafor... he can be Cousins v2.0. On the Sixers... CLEARLY he has taken a back seat to Embiid. Cousins would not have developed the way he is if he too played second fiddle to another big man.


Noel has the defensive skills... but I think his frail body and lack of offense is a bit of a concern since he is due for a near max contract after this season.

With Bender... Suns need an interior scorer. Hence why I think Cousins is a good star to bring in or if rebuilding from near bottom... Okafor is a good substitute.

My vision consists of having the following young line-up (rebuild path)

C: Okafor / Bender / Chriss
PF: Bender / Chriss / Okafor
SF: Warren / Bender / Jones
SG: Booker / Josh Jackson?? / Jones
PG: Fultz?? OR Ball?? / Ulist
The above lineup depends on where the Suns pick....


I posted that PER 36 and Okafor matches up very well with Porzingis and KAT..... of course those 2 are better players but it simply means Okafor is productive and skilled.

[Scutt]

I’ll try to take this from the bright side - Watson is riding Tucker and Chandler in order to build up their trade value. Otherwise, he is nothing but a clown.

I think the NBA knows what Tucker and Chandler have to offer. You do not need to "showcase" your vets for half the season. The Suns are playing all their vets, just like every other year, because they have always been desperate for the 8th seed.

Atleast in 2014 and 2015, they were winning around 40 games a season, so as much as I hated not seeing the young guys get any real minutes, it was somewhat understandable looking at it from the front offices perspective.

This year is almost unbearable for me to watch. Losing with the young guys is fine, but we are losing with the veterans. Playing Chandler, Tucker, and Bledsoe 40 minutes for a couple extra wins is just idiotic. Why delay your young players development AND worsen your pick?

You think Sarver would have learned a lesson from last year. Injuries allowed Booker a chance to shine, giving fans some hope in another losing season. What do we have to look forward to this year? Either Bledsoe, Chandler, and Tucker play us out of a top pick, which will set us back. Or we do get a top 3 pick, but we will never develop him to his full potential because we have to conbuild with our franchise player PJ Tucker. This team is a joke and Watson is indeed a clown.

[DaleyBlind]

I’ll try to take this from the bright side - Watson is riding Tucker and Chandler in order to build up their trade value. Otherwise, he is nothing but a clown.

I think the NBA knows what Tucker and Chandler have to offer. You do not need to "showcase" your vets for half the season. The Suns are playing all their vets, just like every other year, because they have always been desperate for the 8th seed.

Atleast in 2014 and 2015, they were winning around 40 games a season, so as much as I hated not seeing the young guys get any real minutes, it was somewhat understandable looking at it from the front offices perspective.

This year is almost unbearable for me to watch. Losing with the young guys is fine, but we are losing with the veterans. Playing Chandler, Tucker, and Bledsoe 40 minutes for a couple extra wins is just idiotic. Why delay your young players development AND worsen your pick?

You think Sarver would have learned a lesson from last year. Injuries allowed Booker a chance to shine, giving fans some hope in another losing season. What do we have to look forward to this year? Either Bledsoe, Chandler, and Tucker play us out of a top pick, which will set us back. Or we do get a top 3 pick, but we will never develop him to his full potential because we have conbuild with our franchise player PJ Tucker. This team is a joke and Watson is indeed a clown.

Cant wait till next year....

Josh Jackson playing 5 mins a game while PJ Tucker is out their hustling for the ball and shooting those wonderful corner 3 bricks for 35 minutes. Gotta play those vets! Then some fans will complain about it, but then a wiser poster will tell us we just cant give our rookies minutes over the vets they need to earn it...especially if the vets are marginally better than the rooks.

[Frank Lee]

Why the **** did we win this game? We were literally at the bottom and now Watson decides to beat the worst team in the league? I've been patient with this YMCA coach and then he plays Tucker 35 minutes against the Sixers.

Chriss now only getting 7 minutes. Bender not even getting a minute. Watson has turned this team into a sideshow.

Apparently you missed the stat that Chriss had 5 fouls in 7 minutes. The kid just isn't ready. Send him to the DLeague and soon.

Watson is playing his best players. No shame in that. And the better team won last night. Why are you tankers complaining when it was clearly Bled and Book that carried the team in the 4th. You want to lose then those two should be sitting. Quit masking the urge to tank for pick with the incessant whine to play Chriss and Bender. There will be plenty of opportunity over the next two likely LOSING seasons to get them in the mix.

And Y'all should at least applaud Tucker for bringing it every night. He has stepped his game up just in time to be traded. At least he should have positive value. Frankly, if he continues to hit his 3s, then I wouldn't be surprised if he is signed for the next 3 yrs right here. We are in this mess because McD has let too much talent walk off this team with out getting tangible talent back. PJ will always have value if he plays it this level.

Yours truly,
Mr Wiser Poster

[Scutt]

Why the **** did we win this game? We were literally at the bottom and now Watson decides to beat the worst team in the league? I've been patient with this YMCA coach and then he plays Tucker 35 minutes against the Sixers.

Chriss now only getting 7 minutes. Bender not even getting a minute. Watson has turned this team into a sideshow.

Apparently you missed the stat that Chriss had 5 fouls in 7 minutes. The kid just isn't ready. Send him to the DLeague and soon.

Watson is playing his best players. No shame in that. And the better team won last night. Why are you tankers complaining when it was clearly Bled and Book that carried the team in the 4th. You want to lose then those two should be sitting. Quit masking the urge to tank for pick with the incessant whine to play Chriss and Bender. There will be plenty of opportunity over the next two likely LOSING seasons to get them in the mix.

And Y'all should at least applaud Tucker for bringing it every night. He has stepped his game up just in time to be traded. At least he should have positive value. Frankly, if he continues to hit his 3s, then I wouldn't be surprised if he is signed for the next 3 yrs right here. We are in this mess because McD has let too much talent walk off this team with out getting tangible talent back. PJ will always have value if he plays it this level.

Yours truly,
Mr Wiser Poster

Urge to tank?? We are at the bottom of the league, currently at 9-21, playing our "best" players, aka the veterans. This team doesn't need to tank, our lack of talent will assure us a pretty good spot in what is supposed to be a very deep draft. But if our veterans suck so badly that we have to scrap out a win against the 76's, then what is the point in playing them and benching our #4 pick?

Lets be clear, we are highly likely going to have a losing season no matter who is on the court. So of the two choices, which would you rather have?

1) Play the vets who have no future with this team, in hopes of winning the maximum games possible. In the process, hurting our draft position.

2) Play the young guys and hopefully accelerate their development, not worrying about the wins. In the process, helping our draft position and giving the fans some hope for the future.

I think it is pretty clear why so many on here would go with the 2nd option. Which I actually find funny because a couple of years ago, it seemed like the majority of this board believed in treadmilling and waiting to land a superstar in a trade.

You say we are in this position because Mcd has let too much talent walk off? What talent is that? Do you think bringing back IT, Dragic, or the Morris bros. would suddenly change this teams outlook? I don't think so. This team is still lacking a franchise player, just as it has been since Nash left. McD playing musical chairs with role players has not changed that. I am of the opinion that if you are going to have a losing season, why not kill two birds with one stone, and get the young guys some experience and a better pick. How can that possibly set us back from anything? We are not going anywhere playing the vets we have currently.

[Frank Lee]

i believe you should play the best players you have. And I don't care if we have the 3rd, 5th, or 10th pick. The worst record guarantees nothing but losing a lot of games.

PS.... as far as talent that walked... its not so much as keeping it, we didn't replace it. Gortat went for nothing tangible in return, we have received nothing yet for Dragic, Frey left for nothing... the MoBros self destructed, but we still didn't replace them with anything but paper. IT ? Sheesh. Those are all players who are contributing on teams today. Even dealing MVP Nash got us little to nothing. Surely we should see more for that lot than a couple of 19 year olds.

[Scutt]

^I agree that McD not cashing in on assets is extremely frustrating. He also holds on to the players he does trade way too long. I also agree that you should play your best players. But when your best players are veteran role players who have maxed out their ceilings, and can only get you to 9-21, it is time to look at making a change.

I honestly think if we played all the young guys, our record wouldn't be too far off of what it is now. This group of vets wont suddenly get better, but some our young guys have the potential to be much more than just role players. All those players you listed are just that, role players, and we have gone out and gotten more veteran role players to replace them. They might not be the best fits, but that is not going to really move the needle that much in terms of wins and losses. We have rolled out teams featuring Gortat, Dragic, and Frye and it got us nowhere. Now we run with Bledsoe, Knight, and Chandler and we are going nowhere.

Do you want to like find the absolute perfect mix of veteran role players and hope they somehow overachieve and win a title? Or are you still clinging to the idea of the conbuild, hoping a superstar will suddenly demand a trade to Phoenix?

Building through the draft is this teams best shot to get out of the gutter. The front office just needs to commit to developing the players they draft. Len and Warren are made starters, but then they lose those spots to older vets for what reason? Chandler and Tucker are not helping this team win anymore games. Len, Warren, and Booker should all be playing together and building chemistry, but that almost never happens. Why? Because our front office has wondering eyes and is always looking for a quick fix. If they just would have committed to building a team the right way years ago, we probably could be looking at a sustainable playoff team full of young players with bright futures. Instead we get to watch PJ Tucker play 40 minutes a night, while Bender rots on the bench and the Suns spin their tires for yet another season.

[Scutt]

And I don't care if we have the 3rd, 5th, or 10th pick. The worst record guarantees nothing but losing a lot of games.

It does not guarantee anything, but it increases your chances at getting a top 3 pick. And in a draft where you can get a franchise changing talent, something the Suns need more than anything (well maybe a new owner), why wouldn't you want to help increase your odds if you are going to have a losing record regardless?

[Fo-Real]

The young kids are not ready, they need to learn how to compete and you learn that by WINNING **** GAMES!! "Watson sucks, we find ways to lose...... Watson sucks, why the hell did we decide to beat the Sixers" goddammit man! If these very very wet behind the ear kids learn how to compete half as hard as Chandler and Tucker, it's a valuable lesson learned. We are not dealing with guys like LeBron and D. Wade who come in and kick the door down where you have no choice but to put your best player (rookie be damned) on the court and let him eat. Chriss hurts the team at times, Bender is meek and needs to learn grit, Kobe was a freak of nature 10 times any rookie we have, his rookie year he was the third best guard on his team deferring BEHIND Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones. The kids need to learn how to make a positive impact and possibly take over games like Bledsoe has done for us as shown once again in the 4th quarter of this game. Hopefully Booker is paying attention to what Bled is doing and learn this art, **** hopefully Bled watches the differences from quarter to quarter in this game and recognizes the impact he can put on the game, he once again put us on his back, and when he did, the EXCELLENT ROLE PLAYERS in Tucker, Chandler and Warren followed him right on home to a win. He helped to free up and ignite Booker because he became a threat to score or dish on EVERY play. They gave Booker even more space and he got hot. GOOD WIN!!!

[LacosteM]

The young kids are not ready, they need to learn how to compete and you learn that by WINNING **** GAMES!! "Watson sucks, we find ways to lose...... Watson sucks, why the hell did we decide to beat the Sixers" goddammit man! If these very very wet behind the ear kids learn how to compete half as hard as Chandler and Tucker, it's a valuable lesson learned. We are not dealing with guys like LeBron and D. Wade who come in and kick the door down where you have no choice but to put your best player (rookie be damned) on the court and let him eat. Chriss hurts the team at times, Bender is meek and needs to learn grit, Kobe was a freak of nature 10 times any rookie we have, his rookie year he was the third best guard on his team deferring BEHIND Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones. The kids need to learn how to make a positive impact and possibly take over games like Bledsoe has done for us as shown once again in the 4th quarter of this game. Hopefully Booker is paying attention to what Bled is doing and learn this art, **** hopefully Bled watches the differences from quarter to quarter in this game and recognizes the impact he can put on the game, he once again put us on his back, and when he did, the EXCELLENT ROLE PLAYERS in Tucker, Chandler and Warren followed him right on home to a win. He helped to free up and ignite Booker because he became a threat to score or dish on EVERY play. They gave Booker even more space and he got hot. GOOD WIN!!!

You failed to mention that Lakers were a 56 wins team (2nd in the West) in Kobe's rookie year, while Suns are currently at the sheer bottom of it. Also forgot to mention that Eddie Jones was an all-star that year and that Nick Van Exel was posting 15/3/9. Who do Suns exactly have to warrant the lack of PT for likes of Bender, Ullis and even Len? 31 year old Tucker who is likely to be traded ? Brandon Knight who at times looks like the worst player in the league? Or Chandler who I admit has been productive this season, but nonetheless doesn't have a future with this team? Really not a comparable situations...

"The young kids are not ready, they need to learn how to compete and you learn that by WINNING **** GAMES!! "

That narrative would somewhat be plausible, if the team was acually winning. Suns currently hold a record of 9-21.

Again no one is advocating for rookies to start and play 30+ mins, but they should absolutely get at least 15+ mins each and a consistent spot in the rotation. What's the use of rebuilding if you decide to ignore the rebuild's product? Bender, a 4th pick in the draft, hasn't even gotten a real chance to prove himself yet. Giannis for example, 19 year-old as a rookie also, who I've seen as a comparison for Bender on couple of occasions has played 24 minutes in his rookie season. He wasn't that great and he didn't set the world on fire, but he got a valuable learning experience and continued to improve every following season. Bucks basically took a chance on him and let him play freely and through mistakes and Giannis returned them the favour. No one is really saying that Dragan will become like Giannis, but he absolutely deserves to be given a chance to make an impact. People who believe that the young players will be quickly demoralized if things won't go their way from the get go are severely underestimating them. I mean they're in the NBA, they didn't get there by accident, they're not as fragile as some are suggesting. In my book this absolutely isn't a reason to keep the locked on the bench.