Fellow Magic Fans, Forgive Me For Doubting Elfrid..

SHAQ32 · Post #1 » by **SHAQ32** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:40 am

He's changed my mind. I still think he has the ability to be one of the better starting PGs in the league.

SOUL, MagicStarwipe, etc...

Is it too late to ask for forgiveness?

:noway:

Post #2 » by **FFBlitzace** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:52 am

Well he still needs to become more consistent (and this month has been pretty encouraging in that regard, since he's had far more good games than bad games), and the jumpshot and free throw still needs to improve to respectable percentages (doesn't have to be super high numbers), but it was always pretty silly to turn on him in his 2nd season. Especially for anybody who liked him as a rookie (which was pretty much everybody. How many parentheses can I use in this post?). He didn't just wake up one day and forget how to play basketball. "Regression" in young players who are still healthy is largely a myth. If they're performing worse, there's almost certainly a reason for it besides them just mysteriously becoming worse at basketball.

Post #3 » by **Bensational** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:04 am

I think people were right when they said we had pieces that didn't fit. I didn't see the imbalance myself, but I think Vogel has found a way to make them fit by essentially having 2 starting caliber units where there's less conflict between players. (Yeah yeah, our players suck and none would be starters on a good team...whatevs).

It's odd that Fournier and Payton can't mesh. One would imagine Fournier would be an ideal off ball spot up shooter, but his game seems to have become much more on ball. It's also odd that neither Ibaka or Biyombo can run a decent PnR with Payton. Vuc doesn't even try, because his 3pt range is genuinely spacing the floor and opening lanes for Payton now. Meeks plays off the ball the way Fournier should.

But when Payton looks to score, we're a better team. We're undefeated when he scores 20 or more. And Vogel currently has him in a position to be doing that with more regularity than he has before.

Mc-o · Post #4 » by **Mc-o** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:00 am

Yeah i was one of the ones down on him but he has been much better lately !!

MagicFan4Lyfe · Post #5 » by **MagicFan4Lyfe** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:08 am

I've been negative about EP but his play of late has surprised me. Hopefully he can continue with CONSISTENT play.

Post #6 » by **SOUL** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:09 am

SHAQ32 wrote:He's changed my mind. I still think he has the ability to be one of the better starting PGs in the league.

SOUL, MagicStarwipe, etc...

Is it too late to ask for forgiveness?

Jinx thread

Don't need to ask for forgiveness, I don't know what he will become, just knew that he was too talented to give up on while we gave other people the benefit of the doubt for longer periods of time (He's only 22!). Of course he's still going to have some rough shooting nights but if he is aggressive and opens up the game for others, depending on who is around him, it's not hard for him to be lethal in other areas.

The biggest thing is that he's been consistent as of late, but more importantly, he's being put in the position to do things with the ball while being aggressive and pushing the tempo. It seems that both him and Vogel have figured at least that much out. While passiveness was his main issue, it doesn't help when we were playcalling to pass it once he steps past half-court and play off the ball to watch Fournier or Green or whoever dance around with it when we know the offense looks better when he is probing and hitting the open man instead.

MagicStarwipe · Post #7 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:20 am

I mean... you're already on my ignore list, so probably too late, yeah :lol:

. You just consistently took it way too far.

SHAQ32 · Post #8 » by **SHAQ32** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:32 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:I mean... you're already on my ignore list, so probably too late, yeah . You just consistently took it way too far.

Skin · Post #9 » by **Skin** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:31 am

I'm not ready to concede. I LOVE the aggressive Elf, but he's still way too inconsistent. Fully acknowledge that he needs patience though, and the flashes are great. Right now coming off the bench and still getting quality minutes is what he needs. Vogel is pushing the right buttons with this team, but I'm still waiting for more.

Veyron · Post #10 » by **Veyron** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:43 am

lol, he is still mediocre at best. Such a homerism.

fendilim · Post #11 » by **fendilim** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:40 pm

Well, at least you're not part of front office.

Blue_and_Whte · Post #12 » by **Blue_and_Whte** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:21 pm

Wtf? Don't ever beg for forgiveness from ANYONE unless you do something malicious. Stick to your opinion then shrug your shoulders if you're wrong. Don't grovel

Sent from my D6708 using RealGM mobile app

OrlandoDream · Post #13 » by **OrlandoDream** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:42 pm

EP believers will be coming out in waves the next couple of months

Mc-o · Post #14 » by **Mc-o** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:56 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:Wtf? Don't ever beg for forgiveness from ANYONE unless you do something malicious. Stick to your opinion then shrug your shoulders if you're wrong. Don't grovel

Sent from my D6708 using RealGM mobile app

lmao

Mc-o · Post #15 » by **Mc-o** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:57 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:EP believers will be coming out in waves the next couple of months

hopefully he is still on our team and not a new magic killer lol

j_n · Post #16 » by **j_n** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:51 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:Wtf? Don't ever beg for forgiveness from ANYONE unless you do something malicious. Stick to your opinion then shrug your shoulders if you're wrong. Don't grovel

Sent from my D6708 using RealGM mobile app

Catledge · Post #17 » by **Catledge** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:34 pm

Bensational wrote:I think people were right when they said we had pieces that didn't fit. I didn't see the imbalance myself, but I think Vogel has found a way to make them fit by essentially having 2 starting caliber units where there's less conflict between players. (Yeah yeah, our players suck and none would be starters on a good team...whatevs).

It's odd that Fournier and Payton can't mesh. One would imagine Fournier would be an ideal off ball spot up shooter, but his game seems to have become much more on ball. It's also odd that neither Ibaka or Biyombo can run a decent PnR with Payton. Vuc doesn't even try, because his 3pt range is genuinely spacing the floor and opening lanes for Payton now. Meeks plays off the ball the way Fournier should.

But when Payton looks to score, we're a better team. We're undefeated when he scores 20 or more. And Vogel currently has him in a position to be doing that with more regularity than he has before.

My point of disagreement has always been that it's about skills, not aggressiveness or confidence. Good players are confident because they are good. They are not good because they are confident.

That is, it's not about when he "looks to score" so much as it's about him improving the skills he needs to actually score successfully. He stopped looking to score in the past because he experienced repeated failure when he tried. He is more confident now because he is experiencing success, and he is experiencing that success because he has improved his shooting and finishing skills.

Fournier, incidentally, has a TS% of .570 and is averaging 4.3 FTAs and 3.8 asts per 36. He is playing the right way on offense. Other players need to learn to play with him, not the other way around.

Gomagic44 · Post #18 » by **Gomagic44** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:26 pm

I was definitely a hater. I will say he has been impressive to me for the most part this season. He's definitely elevated himself over a few other players in my mind. Good for him. Wish it translated to more wins, but that's not all his fault.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

The Real Dalic · Post #19 » by **The Real Dalic** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:46 pm

I'm glad EP is finally looking like he might be turning a corner, he's been my favorite player since his rookie season. People might've put me in the "hater" corner when I would talk about him, but that was because I knew he could be better than what he was last season, we saw how good he can be when he's out there hustling, making plays for others, and being aggressive, he did it all season his rookie year and won the starting job.

Last year, you could tell EP wasn't enjoying himself playing under Skiles, he seems to be much happier with Vogel. I would consider EP our best prospect at the moment with AG just behind. EP can flat out be our best player on most nights, and that's with Ibaka, Fournier, and Vuc currently on the roster.

Statlanta · Post #20 » by **Statlanta** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:16 pm

Bensational wrote:I think people were right when they said we had pieces that didn't fit. I didn't see the imbalance myself, but I think Vogel has found a way to make them fit by essentially having 2 starting caliber units where there's less conflict between players. (Yeah yeah, our players suck and none would be starters on a good team...whatevs).

It's odd that Fournier and Payton can't mesh. One would imagine Fournier would be an ideal off ball spot up shooter, but his game seems to have become much more on ball. It's also odd that neither Ibaka or Biyombo can run a decent PnR with Payton. Vuc doesn't even try, because his 3pt range is genuinely spacing the floor and opening lanes for Payton now. Meeks plays off the ball the way Fournier should.

But when Payton looks to score, we're a better team. We're undefeated when he scores 20 or more. And Vogel currently has him in a position to be doing that with more regularity than he has before.

Yeah I see his inconsistency As a blessing and a curse. He doesn't shoot us out of a game like a Derrick Rose but by doing so other people have to fill in the shot attempts. I agree on the fit with Fournier as he's shown more on ball skills this year and fits more with an off ball guard