How Good is Jokic?

[NuggetsWY]

Jokic plays just a little less than 24 mpg - 7th on the team
Per Rating - Jokic leads the Nuggets and is #39 in the league
TS% - Jokic leads the Nuggets and is #14 in the league
Double-Doubles - Jokic leads the Nuggets and is #31 in the league
Rebounds - Jokic is #36 in the league - behind Faried who is #24
FG% - Jokic leads the Nuggets and is #8 in the league
Assists among centers - Jokic is #3 in the league

Assuming I got all of those right and realizing stats can be misleading - that's a lot of impressive stats for a guy who plays less than half of each game. Before anyone says "fouls"; he is averaging 3.2 fouls per game. Sure, he sometimes gets more but in games where he gets into early foul trouble (3 in the first half), he often plays very little or not at all in the second half - I ask why?


Bonus Stat #1: Among rookies in the NBA this year, Hernangomez has the 3rd highest PER and Murray the 7th highest (Murray is 15th rookie in mpg).

Bonus Stat #2: The top two plus/minus players on the Nuggets are Murray & Jokic. So why don't they play more?

[The Rebel]

Bonus stat #3: Nurkic is the #1 player on the team for defensive rating and has been since he was a rookie, Malone is always bitching about our defense, but refuses to play by far are best defender.

To answer your questions, Malone has to be trying to lose, there is no other reasonable explanation other than the front office has his showcasing the role players for trades.

[skywalker33]

As good as Malone lets him be....he can easily be better than Marc Gasol IMO.

[NuggetsWY]

Quote from: http://bsndenver.com/nba-acknowledges-blown-call-late-in-nuggets-loss-to-hawks/

“It’s every night,” Michael Malone said of Jokic’s foul trouble after Denver’s loss to Atlanta Friday night. “Nikola Jokic has to learn, this is like the fourth of fifth game since he’s started that he’s getting into foul trouble, and the one game he doesn’t get into foul trouble he flirts with a triple-double. He’s hurting himself, he’s hurting the team. He just has to be smarter, that’s the bottom line. He’s too important of a player. We play through him and we need him on the floor.”

As I've pointed out before, Jokic is averaging less than four fouls per game so he can't possibly be in foul trouble "every night" as Malone says. In the world of parenting, that's considered an unacceptable approach because it is an exaggeration that is a designed to make a child feel bad about themselves. No, Jokic isn't a child, but it is still a discouragement to a young player hearing his coach say "every night ... he's getting into foul trouble".

[skywalker33]

Imagine Jokic with a coach who know how to play bigs ??? Jokic would be averaging 24/12/5

[NuggetsWY]

Imagine Jurkic with a coach who knows how to play with twin towers - Jokic at the high post tossing a bunch of lobs to Nurkic down low - I'm thinking we might have to be a new rim on the Nuggets basket at the end of each quarter. LOL Jokic averaging 24/12/5 maybe even a few triple doubles with Nurkic averaging 20/12.

[skywalker33]

Quote from: http://bsndenver.com/nba-acknowledges-blown-call-late-in-nuggets-loss-to-hawks/

“It’s every night,” Michael Malone said of Jokic’s foul trouble after Denver’s loss to Atlanta Friday night. “Nikola Jokic has to learn, this is like the fourth of fifth game since he’s started that he’s getting into foul trouble, and the one game he doesn’t get into foul trouble he flirts with a triple-double. He’s hurting himself, he’s hurting the team. He just has to be smarter, that’s the bottom line. He’s too important of a player. We play through him and we need him on the floor.”

As I've pointed out before, Jokic is averaging less than four fouls per game so he can't possibly be in foul trouble "every night" as Malone says. In the world of parenting, that's considered an unacceptable approach because it is an exaggeration that is a designed to make a child feel bad about themselves. No, Jokic isn't a child, but it is still a discouragement to a young player hearing his coach say "every night ... he's getting into foul trouble".

Not to be a stickler, but Jokic has been in foul trouble in 5 of the last 6 games, usually 1-2 of those stupid Euro fouls as you called them. Malone is just pointing out (to Nikola ?) that he needs to cut them down because he what makes gives our engine power !!

[skywalker33]

I don't know how good Jokic, but I do know Denver will succeed as much as Jokic allow us to. He's our catalyst, when he goes off, we win !!

[NuggetsWY]

Quote from: http://bsndenver.com/nba-acknowledges-blown-call-late-in-nuggets-loss-to-hawks/

“It’s every night,” Michael Malone said of Jokic’s foul trouble after Denver’s loss to Atlanta Friday night. “Nikola Jokic has to learn, this is like the fourth of fifth game since he’s started that he’s getting into foul trouble, and the one game he doesn’t get into foul trouble he flirts with a triple-double. He’s hurting himself, he’s hurting the team. He just has to be smarter, that’s the bottom line. He’s too important of a player. We play through him and we need him on the floor.”

As I've pointed out before, Jokic is averaging less than four fouls per game so he can't possibly be in foul trouble "every night" as Malone says. In the world of parenting, that's considered an unacceptable approach because it is an exaggeration that is a designed to make a child feel bad about themselves. No, Jokic isn't a child, but it is still a discouragement to a young player hearing his coach say "every night ... he's getting into foul trouble".

Not to be a stickler, but Jokic has been in foul trouble in 5 of the last 6 games, usually 1-2 of those stupid Euro fouls as you called them. Malone is just pointing out (to Nikola ?) that he needs to cut them down because he what makes gives our engine power !!

You are totally correct. However, I predicted this long ago (last year and early this year). You play a big very limited minutes and they know they have fouls to waste and they develop bad habits. If a big is going to be a starter some day, they need to be treated like one right away, unless of course there's a top quality big in front of them. Jokic committed lots of these "Euro-fouls" last year and Malone barely complained about them. Yes, he said something now and then, but it wasn't a big deal. Now he's griping. He should have been dealing with this issue last year. It's called being short-sighted. It's happened to many bigs over the years. The ones that it doesn't happen to are those few who have a quality big in front of them who is willing to talk to them and teach them. Since Jokic hasn't learned this lesson; he must be unable to learn or not have a teacher - I'd say it's the later because his basketball IQ seems rather high in his passing and help defense especially.

[skywalker33]

It's his high BBIQ that makes we scratch my head with these ticky-tack fouls. He knows better, yet he still does it

[The Rebel]

Read on Twitter

Amazing stat.

[skywalker33]

Read on Twitter

Amazing stat.

True, more the truth coming to light !!

[NuggetsWY]

Uh, wow!?! Jokic's bounce pass to Harris in the 3rd quarter where the announcers talked about and the slow motion showed him putting English on the pass!?! A 7 footer, in traffic, leading a fast break with a dribble behind the back before making that pass!?! He certainly is amazing.

I'm thinking back to the Trailblazer's championship year when Bill Walton was making some amazing passes and later they had Arvydas Sabonis making some amazing passes and Chris Webber in Sacramento even Vlade Divac but they never did stuff like that in traffic. In my mind, they were the best passing centers in NBA history. There have been some other good ones, but ... ...

[Boneman2]

Uh, wow!?! Jokic's bounce pass to Harris in the 3rd quarter where the announcers talked about and the slow motion showed him putting English on the pass!?! A 7 footer, in traffic, leading a fast break with a dribble behind the back before making that pass!?! He certainly is amazing.

I'm thinking back to the Trailblazer's championship year when Bill Walton was making some amazing passes and later they had Arvydas Sabonis making some amazing passes and Chris Webber in Sacramento even Vlade Divac but they never did stuff like that in traffic. In my mind, they were the best passing centers in NBA history. There have been some other good ones, but ... ...

Sabonis is the best big I've seen at creating for others. Jokic is right there with him.

[NuggetsWY]

Sabonis is the best big I've seen at creating for others. Jokic is right there with him.

I thought long and hard about that. Sabonis in Russia was the greatest passing big man ever. He was still great when he came to the NBA but his knees limited his movement so much that I think NBA defenders were a little better against him than they would have been 5-10 years earlier.

With that said, anybody who says,

Sabonis is the best big I've seen at creating for others

is not going to get much of an argument from me. At least not until Jokic has a few more years to become better and prove this isn't a fluke.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

[Boneman2]

Sabonis is the best big I've seen at creating for others. Jokic is right there with him.

I thought long and hard about that. Sabonis in Russia was the greatest passing big man ever. He was still great when he came to the NBA but his knees limited his movement so much that I think NBA defenders were a little better against him than they would have been 5-10 years earlier.

With that said, anybody who says,

Sabonis is the best big I've seen at creating for others

is not going to get much of an argument from me. At least not until Jokic has a few more years to become better and prove this isn't a fluke.

His impact on the American game was still felt as if he had played his entire career in the NBA. No question the league has trended towards versatile 7 footers since guys like he and Vlade proved to be entirely capable of handling the ball. His early years in Russia must have been a pleasure to follow.

[Mac1958]

He's our best point guard.

Which doesn't say much about our ACTUAL point guard.
.

[12footrim]

I've posted this a couple times before the seasons and in another thread.

I don't think people really understand how awesome this guy was last year.

Jokic's rookie year

#9th highest Real Plus Minus in the NBA (#1 center by a mile, #2 post player behind Draymond)
#24th highest PER in the NBA

9th highest +/- of any rookie in NBA history.
14th highest rookie PER in the 3point shot era (40 years)

The rookie seasons ahead of him were usually older guys that included guys

Jordan
David Robinson (24 years old)
Sabonis (31 year old)
Bird (23 year old)
etc

He had on of the best statistical rookie seasons ever....... and as a 20 year old

Now even with Malone jerking him around for the first 10 games he's up to top 20 in PER and 17th in Real plus minus.

[12footrim]

He hasn't been in foul trouble every game and Malone is still not playing him like he should IMO. The guy is your franchise player, he certainly should be over 30 minutes if not 35. Certainly not 24 minutes like last night in a competitive game he's going coast to coast behind the back and dunking on the Warriors in.

His per 36's the last 20 games.

21.3 ppg
12.7 rpg
6.5 apg
1.1 bpg
.622% FG (0.6 three's)
.806% FT

low turnovers, etc

The guy has to have a 30 type PER since his poor start. This is all time type efficiency and production. People can poo poo it but he's had a more positive impact on winning basketball than Karl Townes.