Grading Hornacek

misterfrazier10 · Post #181 » by **misterfrazier10** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:43 pm

Around 10 games back I had him somewhere between at least a C and a strong B and now I voted C but essentially a C plus. 16-14 is better than expected for this team even though their strength of schedule is .500. So they are an okay regular season team, no more no less. They're getting by on talent alone and not much teamwork. Passing is so important and our assist numbers are probably going down when they should be creeping up if were playing as a team. Defense is horrible (Melo and Rose mostly) and Lee has been a bit disappointing on d.

Coach isn't getting the best out of Melo (too much iso not enough passing) or Rose (too much shooting not enough passing) or even KP (too many quick shots without feet set) either, which worries me. Pop and Doc would and they are the best coaches. The team is not coming together and basically 30 games you are what you are. It's not all the coach though. The Knicks overall talent level is only a little above average. So Hornacek is doing a C+ job. If they were .500 it'd be a C, which is what an average job is.

Jessie 2k18 · Post #182 » by **Jessie 2k18** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:57 pm

misterfrazier10 wrote:Around 10 games back I had him somewhere between at least a C and a strong B and now I voted C but essentially a C plus. 16-14 is better than expected for this team even though their strength of schedule is .500. So they are an okay regular season team, no more no less. They're getting by on talent alone and not much teamwork. Passing is so important and our assist numbers are probably going down when they should be creeping up if were playing as a team. Defense is horrible (Melo and Rose mostly) and Lee has been a bit disappointing on d.

Coach isn't getting the best out of Melo (too much iso not enough passing) or Rose (too much shooting not enough passing) or even KP (too many quick shots without feet set) either, which worries me. Pop and Doc would and they are the best coaches. The team is not coming together and basically 30 games you are what you are. It's not all the coach though. The Knicks overall talent level is only a little above average. So Hornacek is doing a C+ job. If they were .500 it'd be a C, which is what an average job is.

You're way to kind to Jeff sorry ,I expected this team to be better than what they are . So many teams they should've won ..
Wizards, nuggets, suns .Teams that they were ahead of at home like thunder and blew that lead too and ended up losing .
Like I said the whole team plays like garbage defensively but yet you're only naming two people ?
Kp has been terrible defensively ,lee has been inconsistent ,Noah let guys he used to beat defensively get right pass him now .
The bench is inconsistent as well .Jennings was bad yesterday he can't play very much defense either ,But lets just blame it on two people ?
Melo has always been terrible defensively that is nothing new , And rose well he's never been great defensively ,Yet bulls always won pretty convincely teams like Boston or other top teams at the time when he was healthy .They just couldn't beat the heat in the playoffs with lebron and then he ended up getting hurt ,Mind you the bulls were the team in 2011 and 2012 people picked to challenged and even beat the heat but unfortunately for them rose got hurt .Yet they still played their asses off after he got hurt .
You see thats what "Good coaches do" And I'm not convince Coach Hornacek is doing a very good job .

Dr. Detfink · Post #183 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:38 pm

Jeff Hornacek deserves nothing higher than a C. That's being fair and borderline generous. Yeah, come at me bro.

The offense still sputters because it's a bastardized version of a few systems. It's NOT efficient. Iso ball is a clock eater and when you're behind 10+ pts you NEED to draw fouls to slow the clock down AND cut into the deficit. The Knicks should be a more efficient, better passing, faster team IF we're going with DJ Jazzy Jeff's vision of turning the Knicks into the Eastern Conference Phoenix Suns.

Fine. We're exciting but we're borrowing from a franchise that NEVER once won a NBA Chip.

As for defense, NO ONE can be shocked we're this bad on defense. Even IF the domesticated animal, Joke-keem Noah was his former self it wouldn't make a difference. Look at who the Knicks are taking the playbook from. The Suns. The Knicks need to score at least 110+ pts and HOPE they don't fall behind. The proof is in the pudding.

Post #184 » by **Thugger HBC** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:42 pm

I tend to have a very good memory, and when there is a contradiction, I'm usually quick to point it out.

Certainly not seeing this offensive mind or the staggered lineups that was talked about in particular, and lack of defensive principles certainly is a damper.

I see a team for the most part getting by on talent. Not bad if that's the plan and that is being maximized, but it doesn't seem that way.

Record-wise, the team is where I'd suspect, even though it's playing out differently in the journey.

Cant get an A or B because no expectations have been exceeded, the team is where they should be.

The team is average, you are too Jeff. here's your C for now.

misterfrazier10 · Post #185 » by **misterfrazier10** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:11 pm

Jessie 2k18 wrote:
misterfrazier10 wrote:Around 10 games back I had him somewhere between at least a C and a strong B and now I voted C but essentially a C plus. 16-14 is better than expected for this team even though their strength of schedule is .500. So they are an okay regular season team, no more no less. They're getting by on talent alone and not much teamwork. Passing is so important and our assist numbers are probably going down when they should be creeping up if were playing as a team. Defense is horrible (Melo and Rose mostly) and Lee has been a bit disappointing on d.

Coach isn't getting the best out of Melo (too much iso not enough passing) or Rose (too much shooting not enough passing) or even KP (too many quick shots without feet set) either, which worries me. Pop and Doc would and they are the best coaches. The team is not coming together and basically 30 games you are what you are. It's not all the coach though. The Knicks overall talent level is only a little above average. So Hornacek is doing a C+ job. If they were .500 it'd be a C, which is what an average job is.

You're way to kind to Jeff sorry ,I expected this team to be better than what they are . So many teams they should've won ..
Wizards, nuggets, suns .Teams that they were ahead of at home like thunder and blew that lead too and ended up losing .
Like I said the whole team plays like garbage defensively but yet you're only naming two people ?
Kp has been terrible defensively ,lee has been inconsistent ,Noah let guys he used to beat defensively get right pass him now .
The bench is inconsistent as well .Jennings was bad yesterday he can't play very much defense either ,But lets just blame it on two people ?
Melo has always been terrible defensively that is nothing new , And rose well he's never been great defensively ,Yet bulls always won pretty convincely teams like Boston or other top teams at the time when he was healthy .They just couldn't beat the heat in the playoffs with lebron and then he ended up getting hurt ,Mind you the bulls were the team in 2011 and 2012 people picked to challenged and even beat the heat but unfortunately for them rose got hurt .Yet they still played their asses off after he got hurt .
You see thats what "Good coaches do" And I'm not convince Coach Hornacek is doing a very good job .

Yeah I sure am basically singling out Rose and Melo and it's because Melo is basically the worst defender in the league at the starting small forward position http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5. Meanwhile Rose is about the worst defender among starting point guards http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/1. So 40% of our starting lineup on the defensive side puts the team in a huge gaping hole.

Iron Mantis · Post #186 » by **Iron Mantis** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:37 pm

Standing by my original C grade assessment.

Mediocre record, inconsistent effort, suspect rotations, worst defense I've ever seen.

Team is .500 only because of D.Rose's talent.

MDDN48 · Post #187 » by **MDDN48** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:38 pm

Adelheid wrote:B+

Needs to take control of the locker room. Needs to be the Alpha even though he doesnt look like one. He has to grow a pair of balls to wack these bunch of millionaires to submission.

I didn't know there were locker room issues. Link please.

8-)

AmazingJason · Post #188 » by **AmazingJason** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:16 am

misterfrazier10 wrote:Around 10 games back I had him somewhere between at least a C and a strong B and now I voted C but essentially a C plus. 16-14 is better than expected for this team even though their strength of schedule is .500. So they are an okay regular season team, no more no less. They're getting by on talent alone and not much teamwork. Passing is so important and our assist numbers are probably going down when they should be creeping up if were playing as a team. Defense is horrible (Melo and Rose mostly) and Lee has been a bit disappointing on d.

Coach isn't getting the best out of Melo (too much iso not enough passing) or Rose (too much shooting not enough passing) or even KP (too many quick shots without feet set) either, which worries me. Pop and Doc would and they are the best coaches. The team is not coming together and basically 30 games you are what you are. It's not all the coach though. The Knicks overall talent level is only a little above average. So Hornacek is doing a C+ job. If they were .500 it'd be a C, which is what an average job is.

C+ is fair. Or a B-/C+. Our Vegas O/U at the beginning of the season was 38.5. Think that's a fair benchmark to use and we haven't suffered any major injury.

Sark · Post #189 » by **Sark** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:45 am

We hadn't been 4 games over .500 since 2013. He definitely deserves a B so far

Yankeeknickfan · Post #190 » by **Yankeeknickfan** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:08 am

He's settled at a B now

Nothing wrong with that

Jessie 2k18 · Post #191 » by **Jessie 2k18** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:47 am

Sark wrote:We hadn't been 4 games over .500 since 2013. He definitely deserves a B so far

Hopefully you want change your mind this week ..Since their so great on the road .
Houston should be a fun game

Sark · Post #192 » by **Sark** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:53 am

Jessie 2k18 wrote:
Sark wrote:We hadn't been 4 games over .500 since 2013. He definitely deserves a B so far

Hopefully you want change your mind this week ..Since their so great on the road .
Houston should be a fun game

Well I've always agreed with the Parcells' saying "you are what your record says you are", so if we stumble then sure.

mrKnickShot · Post #193 » by **mrKnickShot** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:11 am

if he can't get Melo to be a facilitator and melo continues to not care to pass then Hornacek will fail just like all the other coaches who tried.

Melo is just not passing this season.

His potential assists last season was 7.8 and this season its a pathetic 5.2.

cayuck · Post #194 » by **cayuck** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:24 am

Hornacek needs to do something to get this defense under control. Either take away the layups or take away the threes. All game long opposing teams either have wide open lanes to the hoop or wide open 3pt looks. They need to start hammering guys when they drive the lane and actually teach these guys how to play help defense as a team. I could really care less about the sketchy offensive system or whether they run the triangle. They have plenty of talent to score and have scored consistently at good rates throughout the season.

The defensive chemistry of the team is awful. No one properly reads their teammates on help or switches, they literally bump into each other half the time creating free screens for the other team. Any change in defensive schemes would make me happy at this point because what they are doing is so clearly not working. Time to start experimenting until you find something that can be somewhat effective.

If Hornacek can't get this defense out of the basement of the league I have to give him a D for the time being.

NYKnicksTAPE · Post #195 » by **NYKnicksTAPE** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:59 am

He gets a C+ from me so far. He can't get a higher grade than that from me with some of the performances that we've had on the road and with us being the 26th ranked defense...

Adelheid · Post #196 » by **Adelheid** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:16 am

Not sure we are going to get anywhere on D with Kurt being the D coach just being real here.

MaseInYourFace · Post #197 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:30 pm

A lot of you definitely lack perspective

cayuck · Post #198 » by **cayuck** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:21 am

Was interesting to see Hornacek nearly bump into a ref when he got his technical in Atlanta tonight. He had to stand up after the no call when Milsap pushed KP to the floor and it went uncalled. It was a terrible time in the game to get a tech though and may have cost us the game.

Knicksfan20 · Post #199 » by **Knicksfan20** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:41 am

Id give him an A if he would stop giving Lance Thomas minutes and if he would play Oquinn more. Not sure if he is trying to raise some guys values or not, but lance is a useless players. He does absolutely NOTHING besides hit a 1 3 point shot once every other game.

Post #200 » by **K_ick_God** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:59 pm

Vujacic has no business taking 7 shots. Better to play Holiday all 53 minutes.