Remodeling the Suns--also fixing other teams.

[Mamba4Goat]

The Suns are a really young team but have a few pieces best used on other teams and could get a few decent rebuilding pieces/vets for them.

Trade one: Knight.
PHX sends: Knight
Phx in: WCS, Tolliver

Sac in: Knight, Monroe
Sac out: Tolliver, WCS, Afflalo

MIl in: Afflalo
Mil out: Monroe

Why for the Suns? They get out of Knights contract and get WCS to be a young center of the future.
Why for the Kings? They get two guys who could really use a change of scenery and could be huge in a playoff push.
Why for the Bucks? They get wing depth for a center that they don't really want.

Trade two: Chandler
Hou in: Chandler, Ulis
Phx in: Brewer, Ennis, 2017 lotto protected 1st (protected for two years then turns into 2 2nds.)

Why for Houston? They get a center that plays defense and rebounds while being a great locker room presence and does the small things, as well as a point guard with decent potential.
Why for Phx? They could buy out Brewer or use him in a Tucker role, and like-wise either waive Ennis or give him a test run. The 1st is the big thing here.

Trade three: Tucker
Orl sends: CJ Watson, 2017 2nd, one of numerous crazy variable 2019 2nd round picks.
Suns send: Tucker

Why for Orlando? They get a SF which they kinda lack on the roster (It's mostly tweeners and SG's, i.e. Green and Gordon)
Why for Suns? Get a competent backup point guard who's a good vet and get 2 2nds.

End result:
Bledsoe/Watson/Ennis
Booker/Barbosa/Jenkins
Warren/Dudley/Brewer
Bender/Chriss/Tolliver
WCS/Len

Could also do Len+Brewer for Bazz+Jones. Minny would get their defensive center, Suns would get their actual back up point guard and Bazz is a great guy to take a flyer on.

Phx also has all of their picks, Houston's likely 2017 1st, and 2 more 2nds.

[OGSactownballer]

I like the Kings part in it.

Curious how the other teams peeps feel. It seems pretty smart and balanced overall if that's the route they want to go.

[bwgood77]

I think it's a well thought out post. I'm not a big fan of WCS, and we've tried Tolliver before, but I'm not a fan of Knight either. I'd prefer Len start though, but they could battle out to see who won out.

I'll take a Houston first for Chandler. Don't really want Brewer, but the first probably makes it worth it depending on how many years Brewer has left.

That's not a lot for Tucker, but I'd definitely do it if it was that or keeping him and there was no other offer, because a 2017 second in this draft is a decent pick, and adding another one later is nice. No reason for the Suns to keep Tucker so might as well get something out of him.

Don't know if Watson would play much, because they should probably play Ulis at backup PG, but each trade is pretty much a fair return.

I imagine half the Suns fans would be fine with it and just want to get rid of the guys, and I know some love WCS. Some Suns fans will want more though. I don't mind keeping Chandler for now that much but if we can get a first out of it, I'd trade him.

[DaleyBlind]

Sacramento trade i'm ok with.
Rockets trade - Id do it if it was like this - T. Chandler, J. Jenkins for C. Brewer, K.J McDaniels. Lotto protected 1st
Orlando trade - Think we can do better elsewhere - at the very least id want to do a 2nd and an expiring

[csuriano]

Great ideas here. Aside from the minor things (like not trading Ulis and we already had Ennis), I like these trades.
My idea for remodeling the Suns would have to involve staying young and finalizing our asset collection so we can turn into the pruning part of our rebuild to build a cohesive team.
Our core already has Bledsoe, Booker and Warren locking in the 1,2 and 3. We also have two young PF prospects and a RFA C.
Trade 1: Chandler, Tucker and a top 10 protected 2018 first to TOR for Val (a 23 y.o. center). They get a C who fits their system and a bigger defensive 3/4 to guard Lebron and we get a higher upside center who doesn't fit our style of play but fits our timeline.
Trade 2: Knight for something to fill out our roster.
Is Knight for Faried and a 2nd fair? We then have a jam at the 4 but could make another trade to clear it or have insurance for Len in the summer.
Or Knight for Evan Turner? We could use a forward who makes plays since our PG is score-first. He just got a big contract but is POR soured on that yet? Are they looking to get out of that? i see it as one the worst value contracts on this board.
Or Knight, Len and an asset (Miami 2018 first) for Vucevic and a PG from ORL? Rumors have them looking to move him but then we have two offensive C's which doesn't fit the new model for the NBA. Luckily our PF prospects aren't allergic to defense so far.
Or the same-old Knight and an asset (Miami 2018 first) for Noel or Okafor? We've all heard this a million times already and it makes sense for both teams. We get another building block, insurance for Len and PHI gets a scoring guard.
To sum it up, maybe something like this? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zqqyqsa. DEN would have to receive the MIA 2018 1rst from PHX. PHX sacrifices some assets to get a more well rounder roster, ORL gets solid scoring wings, TOR gets defense against CLE, and DEN gets prospects and picks for "older" players that don't fit their timeline. Sounds like a Festivus miracle.
But realistically and joking aside, which one of the above makes the most sense? OR do you think the OP makes more sense than any of these ideas for PHX?

[Mamba4Goat]

Sacramento trade i'm ok with.
Rockets trade - Id do it if it was like this - T. Chandler, J. Jenkins for C. Brewer, K.J McDaniels. Lotto protected 1st
Orlando trade - Think we can do better elsewhere - at the very least id want to do a 2nd and an expiring

Yeah--I may have over done it by including Ulis--wasn't sure of his value and how much would needed to include a 1st from Houston.

Great ideas here. Aside from the minor things (like not trading Ulis and we already had Ennis), I like these trades.
My idea for remodeling the Suns would have to involve staying young and finalizing our asset collection so we can turn into the pruning part of our rebuild to build a cohesive team.
Our core already has Bledsoe, Booker and Warren locking in the 1,2 and 3. We also have two young PF prospects and a RFA C.
Trade 1: Chandler, Tucker and a top 10 protected 2018 first to TOR for Val (a 23 y.o. center). They get a C who fits their system and a bigger defensive 3/4 to guard Lebron and we get a higher upside center who doesn't fit our style of play but fits our timeline.

This isn't something I can get behind. If you want something like this, you could send Chandler+filler for Monroe and not lose value while gaining a similar cause, Monroe comes off the books earlier and could be paid cheaper too.

Trade 2: Knight for something to fill out our roster.
Is Knight for Faried and a 2nd fair? We then have a jam at the 4 but could make another trade to clear it or have insurance for Len in the summer.
Or Knight for Evan Turner? We could use a forward who makes plays since our PG is score-first. He just got a big contract but is POR soured on that yet? Are they looking to get out of that? i see it as one the worst value contracts on this board.
Or Knight, Len and an asset (Miami 2018 first) for Vucevic and a PG from ORL? Rumors have them looking to move him but then we have two offensive C's which doesn't fit the new model for the NBA. Luckily our PF prospects aren't allergic to defense so far.
Or the same-old Knight and an asset (Miami 2018 first) for Noel or Okafor? We've all heard this a million times already and it makes sense for both teams. We get another building block, insurance for Len and PHI gets a scoring guard.
To sum it up, maybe something like this? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zqqyqsa. DEN would have to receive the MIA 2018 1rst from PHX. PHX sacrifices some assets to get a more well rounder roster, ORL gets solid scoring wings, TOR gets defense against CLE, and DEN gets prospects and picks for "older" players that don't fit their timeline. Sounds like a Festivus miracle.
But realistically and joking aside, which one of the above makes the most sense? OR do you think the OP makes more sense than any of these ideas for PHX?

For the first suggestion, why would you add Faried when you have Bender, Chriss, and Dudley all able to play PF? I'd look to add depth else where if it's a key piece.
The second trade would need a bit more coming back to Phx, I'd push for Plumlee to take over Chandler's minutes. But even then, a minor incentive would be needed from Phx.
The third trade, is a no go from both sides I believe. The Miami pick should be regarded like the BK picks for now, and Vuce doesn't have the kind of value to get that type of pick anyways. Vuce for Knight in a vacuum wouldn't be that bad, but the trade as is, even without the pick, I'd have Orlando needing to add value.
I'd say the pick is a huge deal breaker for the Suns in the trade machine trade, it looks good otherwise.

Good post though, lots of good ideas but I think you're slightly under selling some of your guys.

[csuriano]

Thanks for the feedback. I was consciously trying not to be a homer and over-value our assets. Good to hear we could get more value out of them on the market. The only reason I mentioned Faried is because in the new NBA you can run with Faried, Chriss or Bender as a small ball 5 for small stints. If we could remove that MIA pick from the above mentioned trades that would be great. Based on the fan comments here I think every team gets what some are calling for, to help their team.

This isn't something I can get behind. If you want something like this, you could send Chandler+filler for Monroe and not lose value while gaining a similar cause, Monroe comes off the books earlier and could be paid cheaper too.

I'm a bit confused by this because Monroe does come off the books a year earlier but he is paid about 2 million more a year. Would MIL even be interested in Chandler? I know some TOR fans are. I also wouldn't want to ship Chandler out to a non-contender.

[Mamba4Goat]

I meant by getting Monroe you don't have to lose a high value piece, and you gain a high offense center who on his new deal can probably be talked down to a steal. I'm sure the Bucks would be okay with Chandlers defense and vet leadership--could always send him away too.

[jbk1234]

I can't think of a team in the NBA that would have less use for Monroe than the Kings. Eve if you believe that Monroe has neutral trade value, the Kings maintain their log jam at center and thin out already thin positions.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

The Suns are a really young team but have a few pieces best used on other teams and could get a few decent rebuilding pieces/vets for them.

Trade one: Knight.
PHX sends: Knight
Phx in: WCS, Tolliver

Sac in: Knight, Monroe
Sac out: Tolliver, WCS, Afflalo

MIl in: Afflalo
Mil out: Monroe

Why for the Suns? They get out of Knights contract and get WCS to be a young center of the future.
Why for the Kings? They get two guys who could really use a change of scenery and could be huge in a playoff push.
Why for the Bucks? They get wing depth for a center that they don't really want.

I don't think WCS makes that much sense for us with Len here. Recently, I've started thinking that Chicago's a really great target for a Knight trade. He's improved over the last several games, and he even when he's missing shots, his effort level remains. Wade had words of praise for him his last season in Milwaukee. He is a shooter, even if he's struggled so far this season, so there's reason to think he could be a big improvement over the disappointing Rondo. So I'd go with this alternative for Knight:

Phoenix In: Rondo, better of CHI '17/SAC '17 (top 10 protected), two second rounders
Phoenix Out: Knight

The idea would be that if both CHI and SAC make the playoffs (or get close), the Suns get a solid first, as well as the Kings second rounders coming CHI's way. The Bulls get what is (hopefully) a solid piece next to Jimmy about the same age.

Don't get me wrong; Knight's struggled this season. But that seems to be a pretty fair return in my view. The Bulls, it would seem to me, are buying low.

I would try to buy Rondo out.

Trade two: Chandler
Hou in: Chandler, Ulis
Phx in: Brewer, Ennis, 2017 lotto protected 1st (protected for two years then turns into 2 2nds.)

Why for Houston? They get a center that plays defense and rebounds while being a great locker room presence and does the small things, as well as a point guard with decent potential.
Why for Phx? They could buy out Brewer or use him in a Tucker role, and like-wise either waive Ennis or give him a test run. The 1st is the big thing here.

See, I simply wouldn't give up Ulis. The Suns have looked their best this year with Ulis in the game. The Suns appear to value him as much as a first rounder; what's more, he's Booker's best friend. He won't be dealt.

I think Houston's a possible landing spot for Chandler, especially given that they have an undesirable long-term contract in Brewer.

I don't expect a first for Chandler (though Houston's isn't great). I think we should be aiming to get a backup 5 and a wing who can replace Chandler and Tucker in the rotation.

If we wanted to get a wing with an actually valuable deal, we could convey CHI's 2nds or (if solid enough a player) the 1st. I would look at Portland (Crabbe) or New Orleans (Moore, Galloway or Hill + Ajinca), Sacramento (Koufos + Casspi) or Minnesota (Aldrich+Muhammad).

Trade three: Tucker
Orl sends: CJ Watson, 2017 2nd, one of numerous crazy variable 2019 2nd round picks.
Suns send: Tucker

Why for Orlando? They get a SF which they kinda lack on the roster (It's mostly tweeners and SG's, i.e. Green and Gordon)
Why for Suns? Get a competent backup point guard who's a good vet and get 2 2nds.

I would do this, but I would add Bledsoe to the deal in exchange for Green, LAL '19, ORL '20 (top 7 protected). They can keep the second (and Payton, who's played well off the bench). The idea here being that adding a solid scorer like Bled on a reasonable deal could help them keep Ibaka. I would try to buy Green out.

End result:
Bledsoe/Watson/Ennis
Booker/Barbosa/Jenkins
Warren/Dudley/Brewer
Bender/Chriss/Tolliver
WCS/Len

Could also do Len+Brewer for Bazz+Jones. Minny would get their defensive center, Suns would get their actual back up point guard and Bazz is a great guy to take a flyer on.

Phx also has all of their picks, Houston's likely 2017 1st, and 2 more 2nds.

I am now solidly in the keep and pay Len camp. So my end result is something like:

Ulis/Watson
Booker/Barbosa/Jenkins
Warren/Dudley/Jones
Chriss/Bender/Millsap (the one in the D-League)
Len/Williams

It looks worse on paper, but I guarantee it'll be more fun to watch. Plus we'll have the following first round picks in 2017 (CHI/SAC), 2018 (MIA), 2019 (LAL), 2020 (ORL) and 2021 (MIA). That's how I would (try to) blow it up.

[yanuary]

Second and third trade are excellent and i can see here win-win type deals. Good job.

But i dont like first one for Sacto. Maybe because i think that Knight has not positive but serious negative trade value (he is just awful 85 of 85 PGs in RPM its not coinsidence) and in my opinion its way to good for Suns. But also it would by typical Kings trade.

Any team which will take his horrible contract and give any asset in return will be big loser.