Around the league 2016-2017

[Chuck-Cheese]

Marcus Smart 0-3 20 mins 0 pts. Lol

funny, I think it happened on the same night that Okafor went 0-9 in 28 minutes and Noel Didnt even get into the game. Must have been something in the water that day - lol.

[CoreyGallagher]

Was just looking at random game logs and Brandon Ingram hasn't recorded a block or steal in the last 329 minutes (5 and a half hours) that he's been on the court. Since the third quarter, 12 games ago.

[PhilasFinest]

Was just looking at random game logs and Brandon Ingram hasn't recorded a block or steal in the last 329 minutes (5 and a half hours) that he's been on the court. Since the third quarter, 12 games ago.

I can't believe people were arguing him for the #1 pick. He looks lost out there at times.

[eagereyez]

Ingram wasn't a good defender in college. People looked at his wingspan and just assumed that he'd be a lockdown defender. It could still happen, but I think we should have learned from Wiggins that having the tools doesn't mean they'll be used. Westbrook would be another example.

[SelfishPlayer]

Was just looking at random game logs and Brandon Ingram hasn't recorded a block or steal in the last 329 minutes (5 and a half hours) that he's been on the court. Since the third quarter, 12 games ago.

I can't believe people were arguing him for the #1 pick. He looks lost out there at times.

He has been playing more PG recently so that could be making it more difficult for him to record stats in those areas.

[joyeuxnoel]

russell and mudiay look pretty bad this year

[PhilasFinest]

Was just looking at random game logs and Brandon Ingram hasn't recorded a block or steal in the last 329 minutes (5 and a half hours) that he's been on the court. Since the third quarter, 12 games ago.

I can't believe people were arguing him for the #1 pick. He looks lost out there at times.

He has been playing more PG recently so that could be making it more difficult for him to record stats in those areas.

A guy who is nearly 6'10" with a 7'3" wingspan is finding it difficult to block shots or get steals guarding guys who are 6'0-6'3"?

Is that why he is struggling to score and shoot as well?

I dont buy it. Sure he has been handling the ball some, but he's not playing bonafide PG. Lou Williams, Clarkson, Russell and Randle all handle the ball there too. I don't think thats an excuse at all, he just doesn't look ready to be an NBA starter right now.

I know 1 thing, he would be getting roasted in Philly if he was playing this way.

[PhilasFinest]

Malcolm Brogdon playing well again for Milwaukee. He has literally been 1 of the top 3 rookies in the class so far. Cant imagine what he would be doing starting at the SG spot for our Sixers.

That Bucks team is pretty fun to watch with Giannis and Jabari (who looks pretty damn good). They have a nice core.

[ProcessDoctor]

Malcolm Brogdon playing well again for Milwaukee. He has literally been 1 of the top 3 rookies in the class so far. Cant imagine what he would be doing starting at the SG spot for our Sixers.

That Bucks team is pretty fun to watch with Giannis and Jabari (who looks pretty damn good). They have a nice core.

Yea they're looking pretty fun this year. If they can add another all-star through the draft/trade/FA then they might have a real chance down the road.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Ericb5]

Malcolm Brogdon playing well again for Milwaukee. He has literally been 1 of the top 3 rookies in the class so far. Cant imagine what he would be doing starting at the SG spot for our Sixers.

That Bucks team is pretty fun to watch with Giannis and Jabari (who looks pretty damn good). They have a nice core.

There were a lot of people on this board that were very low on Parker in 2014 once the lottery happened. Complaints about his defense, and lack of quickness, and reluctance to pass the ball.

I always thought he was a future all star, and he is on his way.

When Embiid got hurt, and I became convinced that Wiggins was then going to go first, there were rumors that the Bucks were high on Exum.

I always thought of Embiid as the best player in the draft by far, but once he got hurt a few days before the draft, I quickly assumed that we weren't going to, and shouldn't pick him, and it was devastating as someone who followed the tank so closely that year.

I was praying for the Bucks to take Exum because Parker was still a star. I was trying to convince myself to be happy with Exum if the Bucks DID take Parker.

However, once we took Embiid 3rd I quickly got on board with it, and in retrospect, it was a no brainer.

Parker is really killing it this year though, and still somewhat quietly. I think a lot of people stopped thinking about him as a future star once he had a pretty tame start, and then got the knee injury.

The Bucks have quietly snagged two star players of their own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Slizeezyc]

Malcolm Brogdon playing well again for Milwaukee. He has literally been 1 of the top 3 rookies in the class so far. Cant imagine what he would be doing starting at the SG spot for our Sixers.

That Bucks team is pretty fun to watch with Giannis and Jabari (who looks pretty damn good). They have a nice core.

There were a lot of people on this board that were very low on Parker in 2014 once the lottery happened. Complaints about his defense, and lack of quickness, and reluctance to pass the ball.

I always thought he was a future all star, and he is on his way.

When Embiid got hurt, and I became convinced that Wiggins was then going to go first, there were rumors that the Bucks were high on Exum.

I always thought of Embiid as the best player in the draft by far, but once he got hurt a few days before the draft, I quickly assumed that we weren't going to, and shouldn't pick him, and it was devastating as someone who followed the tank so closely that year.

I was praying for the Bucks to take Exum because Parker was still a star. I was trying to convince myself to be happy with Exum if the Bucks DID take Parker.

However, once we took Embiid 3rd I quickly got on board with it, and in retrospect, it was a no brainer.

Parker is really killing it this year though, and still somewhat quietly. I think a lot of people stopped thinking about him as a future star once he had a pretty tame start, and then got the knee injury.

The Bucks have quietly snagged two star players of their own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He's still a horrible defender, doesn't get to the FT line, and is an awful rebounder. That being said, the 3-point shooting going up is good, and the explosion and scoring ability is back. He's like Wiggins in that he gives a team next to nothing besides points at this juncture, but I probably would take him over Wiggins moving forward.

Wiggins should end up as a better defender, but he's still not showing it yet with any consistency. Parker probably won't ever figure it out there, but he's going to play the 4 and has Giannis to hide him so it will be mitigated somewhat. I also have to believe Parker figures out rebounding before Wiggins so he won't hurt the team as much at the 4 like Wiggins would.

And I have more faith in Parker maintaining an ability to score, while Wiggins I'm still not sure where he tops out on that end.

[Slizeezyc]

Malcolm Brogdon playing well again for Milwaukee. He has literally been 1 of the top 3 rookies in the class so far. Cant imagine what he would be doing starting at the SG spot for our Sixers.

That Bucks team is pretty fun to watch with Giannis and Jabari (who looks pretty damn good). They have a nice core.

He's still been pretty bad in a lot of respects (he's 24 so he has to be graded on a curve being old as **** for a rookie), but so is this class so he gets to chill in the Top 5 by default. It's dope that he's shooting so well on 3s though as he was sort of like Justin Anderson in that he just had the one season of shooting well right before he left school. So maybe unlike Justin Anderson he'll have an easier time. It's also cool to see the assist rate as it shows some playmaking being in there.

(I'm not trying to take a crap in the Bucks' cereal, I like the general talent, just think they wasted a lot of money and a lot rides on Middleton being normal and healthy when he gets back from a brutal injury.)

[eagereyez]

Malcolm Brogdon playing well again for Milwaukee. He has literally been 1 of the top 3 rookies in the class so far. Cant imagine what he would be doing starting at the SG spot for our Sixers.

That Bucks team is pretty fun to watch with Giannis and Jabari (who looks pretty damn good). They have a nice core.

There were a lot of people on this board that were very low on Parker in 2014 once the lottery happened. Complaints about his defense, and lack of quickness, and reluctance to pass the ball.

I always thought he was a future all star, and he is on his way.

When Embiid got hurt, and I became convinced that Wiggins was then going to go first, there were rumors that the Bucks were high on Exum.

I always thought of Embiid as the best player in the draft by far, but once he got hurt a few days before the draft, I quickly assumed that we weren't going to, and shouldn't pick him, and it was devastating as someone who followed the tank so closely that year.

I was praying for the Bucks to take Exum because Parker was still a star. I was trying to convince myself to be happy with Exum if the Bucks DID take Parker.

However, once we took Embiid 3rd I quickly got on board with it, and in retrospect, it was a no brainer.

Parker is really killing it this year though, and still somewhat quietly. I think a lot of people stopped thinking about him as a future star once he had a pretty tame start, and then got the knee injury.

The Bucks have quietly snagged two star players of their own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Parker should serve as a reminder to everyone that these prospects take time to develop. Regardless of who we end up with after the draft, odds are they won't be a net positive until year 3-4.

[Ericb5]

Malcolm Brogdon playing well again for Milwaukee. He has literally been 1 of the top 3 rookies in the class so far. Cant imagine what he would be doing starting at the SG spot for our Sixers.

That Bucks team is pretty fun to watch with Giannis and Jabari (who looks pretty damn good). They have a nice core.

There were a lot of people on this board that were very low on Parker in 2014 once the lottery happened. Complaints about his defense, and lack of quickness, and reluctance to pass the ball.

I always thought he was a future all star, and he is on his way.

When Embiid got hurt, and I became convinced that Wiggins was then going to go first, there were rumors that the Bucks were high on Exum.

I always thought of Embiid as the best player in the draft by far, but once he got hurt a few days before the draft, I quickly assumed that we weren't going to, and shouldn't pick him, and it was devastating as someone who followed the tank so closely that year.

I was praying for the Bucks to take Exum because Parker was still a star. I was trying to convince myself to be happy with Exum if the Bucks DID take Parker.

However, once we took Embiid 3rd I quickly got on board with it, and in retrospect, it was a no brainer.

Parker is really killing it this year though, and still somewhat quietly. I think a lot of people stopped thinking about him as a future star once he had a pretty tame start, and then got the knee injury.

The Bucks have quietly snagged two star players of their own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He's still a horrible defender, doesn't get to the FT line, and is an awful rebounder. That being said, the 3-point shooting going up is good, and the explosion and scoring ability is back. He's like Wiggins in that he gives a team next to nothing besides points at this juncture, but I probably would take him over Wiggins moving forward.

Wiggins should end up as a better defender, but he's still not showing it yet with any consistency. Parker probably won't ever figure it out there, but he's going to play the 4 and has Giannis to hide him so it will be mitigated somewhat. I also have to believe Parker figures out rebounding before Wiggins so he won't hurt the team as much at the 4 like Wiggins would.

And I have more faith in Parker maintaining an ability to score, while Wiggins I'm still not sure where he tops out on that end.

There are very few flawless basketball players, and Parker is proof that talent wins out most of the time eventually. The 3 point shooting should come as no surprise to anyone who was a fan of him. Too many people overrate the analytics aspects that showed that he was unlikely to be a good defender, and then they throw the baby out with the bath water.

He is going to be a 25 ppg scorer eventually, and he is a leader.

Coming out of college, I had him a solid 3rd behind Embiid, and Wiggins. So far I think that it is fair to say that he is a better player than Wiggins. Wiggins' Achilles heal was always his lack of competitive fire, and so far that has held him back further than Parker's lack of length and quickness.

The traditional idea that you can't judge a draft for 3 years I think is even a year short now that we are in the one and done era. It will often be longer than 3 years for everything to even out, and too many people make up their minds too quickly.

The same thing is happening to Okafor right now. We aren't even a year and a half into his career(which included a lot of missed games due to injury), and people think that he has already been figured out. A year and a half from now it could be a very different story.

[Slizeezyc]

There were a lot of people on this board that were very low on Parker in 2014 once the lottery happened. Complaints about his defense, and lack of quickness, and reluctance to pass the ball.

I always thought he was a future all star, and he is on his way.

When Embiid got hurt, and I became convinced that Wiggins was then going to go first, there were rumors that the Bucks were high on Exum.

I always thought of Embiid as the best player in the draft by far, but once he got hurt a few days before the draft, I quickly assumed that we weren't going to, and shouldn't pick him, and it was devastating as someone who followed the tank so closely that year.

I was praying for the Bucks to take Exum because Parker was still a star. I was trying to convince myself to be happy with Exum if the Bucks DID take Parker.

However, once we took Embiid 3rd I quickly got on board with it, and in retrospect, it was a no brainer.

Parker is really killing it this year though, and still somewhat quietly. I think a lot of people stopped thinking about him as a future star once he had a pretty tame start, and then got the knee injury.

The Bucks have quietly snagged two star players of their own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He's still a horrible defender, doesn't get to the FT line, and is an awful rebounder. That being said, the 3-point shooting going up is good, and the explosion and scoring ability is back. He's like Wiggins in that he gives a team next to nothing besides points at this juncture, but I probably would take him over Wiggins moving forward.

Wiggins should end up as a better defender, but he's still not showing it yet with any consistency. Parker probably won't ever figure it out there, but he's going to play the 4 and has Giannis to hide him so it will be mitigated somewhat. I also have to believe Parker figures out rebounding before Wiggins so he won't hurt the team as much at the 4 like Wiggins would.

And I have more faith in Parker maintaining an ability to score, while Wiggins I'm still not sure where he tops out on that end.

There are very few flawless basketball players, and Parker is proof that talent wins out most of the time eventually. The 3 point shooting should come as no surprise to anyone who was a fan of him. Too many people overrate the analytics aspects that showed that he was unlikely to be a good defender, and then they throw the baby out with the bath water.

He is going to be a 25 ppg scorer eventually, and he is a leader.

Coming out of college, I had him a solid 3rd behind Embiid, and Wiggins. So far I think that it is fair to say that he is a better player than Wiggins. Wiggins' Achilles heal was always his lack of competitive fire, and so far that has held him back further than Parker's lack of length and quickness.

The traditional idea that you can't judge a draft for 3 years I think is even a year short now that we are in the one and done era. It will often be longer than 3 years for everything to even out, and too many people make up their minds too quickly.

The same thing is happening to Okafor right now. We aren't even a year and a half into his career(which included a lot of missed games due to injury), and people think that he has already been figured out. A year and a half from now it could be a very different story.

Defense is half the game, so it's probably underrated quite honestly. It's obviously more important at some positions than others (a center like Jahlil being a horrible defender and rebounder matters more than Parker being the same), but it's still hugely important and getting even more so with all the switching and sorts of defense you have to run to not get murdered by spread out offenses.

It's weird that you go after analytics for that -- really makes no sense -- as scouts and analytics folks both care about defense as, you know, it's part of being a basketball player in the NBA.

Also, if players play bad, it's okay to judge them as such and still give the caveat "things could change at some point." It's worse to blindly follow your original prediction and make excuses at every juncture for a player and pretend like he's not been a below average basketball player. It dilutes your own points and evaluations because you have to be willing to notice that something is going on at that moment.

In other words, having conviction is fine, but you still have to be willing to say "yes this guy has been bad, there's no excuse for it besides youth and maybe X factor -- depending on the player -- but I still believe in the talent."

Someone like Okafor varies from Parker either way because he brings every lineup down he's in on top of the poor metrics and eye test. He's got much more to figure out than Parker did. The worst things Parker had going for him beyond the rebounding/defense were not trusting his shot after coming back from injury and being part of some horrible defenses when paired up with Monroe. Okafor has huge problems to solve as a center in the NBA on both sides of the court. Again, it's fine to say you believe he might figure it out, but framing it as just a "wait and see and things will be cool" isn't necessarily the only angle to take when his weaknesses in college (rebounding and defense, no shooting) are manifesting themselves in the NBA.

[Ericb5]

He's still a horrible defender, doesn't get to the FT line, and is an awful rebounder. That being said, the 3-point shooting going up is good, and the explosion and scoring ability is back. He's like Wiggins in that he gives a team next to nothing besides points at this juncture, but I probably would take him over Wiggins moving forward.

Wiggins should end up as a better defender, but he's still not showing it yet with any consistency. Parker probably won't ever figure it out there, but he's going to play the 4 and has Giannis to hide him so it will be mitigated somewhat. I also have to believe Parker figures out rebounding before Wiggins so he won't hurt the team as much at the 4 like Wiggins would.

And I have more faith in Parker maintaining an ability to score, while Wiggins I'm still not sure where he tops out on that end.

There are very few flawless basketball players, and Parker is proof that talent wins out most of the time eventually. The 3 point shooting should come as no surprise to anyone who was a fan of him. Too many people overrate the analytics aspects that showed that he was unlikely to be a good defender, and then they throw the baby out with the bath water.

He is going to be a 25 ppg scorer eventually, and he is a leader.

Coming out of college, I had him a solid 3rd behind Embiid, and Wiggins. So far I think that it is fair to say that he is a better player than Wiggins. Wiggins' Achilles heal was always his lack of competitive fire, and so far that has held him back further than Parker's lack of length and quickness.

The traditional idea that you can't judge a draft for 3 years I think is even a year short now that we are in the one and done era. It will often be longer than 3 years for everything to even out, and too many people make up their minds too quickly.

The same thing is happening to Okafor right now. We aren't even a year and a half into his career(which included a lot of missed games due to injury), and people think that he has already been figured out. A year and a half from now it could be a very different story.

Defense is half the game, so it's probably underrated quite honestly. It's obviously more important at some positions than others (a center like Jahlil being a horrible defender and rebounder matters more than Parker being the same), but it's still hugely important and getting even more so with all the switching and sorts of defense you have to run to not get murdered by spread out offenses.

It's weird that you go after analytics for that -- really makes no sense -- as scouts and analytics folks both care about defense as, you know, it's part of being a basketball player in the NBA.

Also, if players play bad, it's okay to judge them as such and still give the caveat "things could change at some point." It's worse to blindly follow your original prediction and make excuses at every juncture for a player and pretend like he's not been a below average basketball player. It dilutes your own points and evaluations because you have to be willing to notice that something is going on at that moment.

In other words, having conviction is fine, but you still have to be willing to say "yes this guy has been bad, there's no excuse for it besides youth and maybe X factor -- depending on the player -- but I still believe in the talent."

Someone like Okafor varies from Parker either way because he brings every lineup down he's in on top of the poor metrics and eye test. He's got much more to figure out than Parker did. The worst things Parker had going for him beyond the rebounding/defense were not trusting his shot after coming back from injury and being part of some horrible defenses when paired up with Monroe. Okafor has huge problems to solve as a center in the NBA on both sides of the court. Again, it's fine to say you believe he might figure it out, but framing it as just a "wait and see and things will be cool" isn't necessarily the only angle to take when his weaknesses in college (rebounding and defense, no shooting) are manifesting themselves in the NBA.

I'm not saying that we should wait and see and everything will be cool. I'm saying that we should wait and see before we decide what a player fully is.

I meant the analytics types on this board that see every prospect as a collection of things that they CAN'T do, instead of a collection of things that they CAN do. The same people who hate on Okafor were hating on Parker at the time. The same types were against Julius Randle too, who has also rapidly improved. The whole thing about alligator arms and how he only played bully ball in college, and he won't be able to do that in the NBA. Many of them loved Vonleh over Randle because of his length, and shooting ability, and so far that has been a big zero.

They look at a prospect who has bad statistical indicators in a certain area and then decide that they don't want that guy on the team. You don't get to decide between a bunch of players without flaws so you have to make judgement calls that have trade offs.

I am certainly not saying that I have a greater ability to project players than anyone else, but my purely "eye test" methodology isn't any worse of a method. I think that statistical arguments about college stats lead you astray more often than the eye test does.

My pre-draft top 5's for each of the last 3 drafts looks like this.

2014:

1. Embiid
2. Wiggins
3. Parker
4. Exum
5. Randle

A few years in and this list is looking pretty good other than Exum largely disappointing so far.

2015:

1. Towns
2. Okafor
3. Porzingis
4. Mudiay
5. Russell

Towns has been the obvious best player, and Porzingis has been much better than Okafor so far. Mudiay has been disappointing so far, and Russell to a lesser extent has too, but ultimately I think that the 2015 draft was a pretty weak one overall. Some of the better players so far like Turner and Booker went much later.

2016:

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Everyone else(really didn't like any of the other guys more than anyone else, but would have drafted Dunn if we had the 3rd pick)

In 2017 so far I rank them like this:

1. Jackson
2. Ball
3. Fultz
4. Tatum
5. Smith

I think that Giles is the best talent over all, but his health is such a wildcard right now that I don't know where to put him.

I think that Jackson is very underrated because people are scared off by the jump shot. Ball is amazing, and people discount his shooting ability because of his awkward delivery. I think that Fultz gets overrated a bit like Russell did, even though he is a better athlete, simply because his ability to shoot the 3 makes it seem like he will excel in the modern NBA. Tatum is a prototypical NBA wing, and Smith is the most electric player in the draft.

Smith is a guy like a Kyrie Irving or Russell Westbrook. They are all scoring guards that aren't natural facilitators. However, their overwhelming talent makes up for the chaotic nature of having scoring guards run the point. If he turns into a superstar then his faults will be very excusable, and you just take him, and figure it out later.

[CoreyGallagher]

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[PhilasFinest]

Brogdon gets the start for an injured Dellavedova....drops a triple double, 15-11-11.

DaMn

[freshie2]

Brogdon as a PG...nah...who'd of thunk it.

[76thBearCub]

Speaking of triple doubles, Harden with 53 points, 16 rebounds and 17 assists. WTF