The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0)

[fallguy]

What? Jimmy Butler is a top 10 player in the league, a two way star and only 27 years old. He's signed for 3 more years and cheap money too. Pre-lottery? There's a FAR better chance that we draft a bust than a guy who even approaches Jimmy Butlers level.

This draft is deep. I've watched many of these prospects play and they're all impressive. But they are so far away from Butlers level and so much could go wrong. It's patently absurd to say you'll only trade a pre-lottery draft pick for someone far better than a top 10 guy.

The Celtics want to know where that pick is before they move it. Unless the return is an absolute franchise changer. That's not Butler. I wouldn't put Butler in the top-10 guys in the league. Even with Butler Boston still taps out to Cleveland. If they even get there.

Maybe. But even if it's #1 overall, chances are it'll be 5-7 years before they'll even approach Butlers level on a best case scenario. Most likely scenario is the pick will be a fringe all-star who never approaches Butlers current level.

With Butler, you're one piece away. You may not beat Cleveland this year, but you have all the flexibility in the world to get him this off season and seriously compete with the big boys.

Eventually we're gunna have to take a risk. The picks are nice, but, despite how much I love Fultz, there are no generational guys in this draft and no sure things.

With Butler you're still one top-10 player in the league away.

Ditching a potential #1 overall pick in-season burns the single biggest asset we have to get that guy (whether by draft or trade).

You really want Butler? Go get him in the offseason.

[reload141]

I would much rather spend our assets on a 4/5 all star then a Butler while yes he would be an upgrade on AB it isn't significant enough to spend your best assets on.
Also I'd much rather gamble on signing Hayward in the offseason who in my opinion is on par with Butler and would only be costing us money and not draft/player assets.

[Curmudgeon]

I would be shocked if Dirk ever gets traded by Dallas. Don't care how bad they are.


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Why not? Pierce was traded when it was obvious that the Celtics needed to rebuild. Do you think Cuban and Donnie Nelson are sentimentalists?

[bucknersrevenge]

Brown's lack of playing time has absolutely nothing to do with his defense, which is strong for a rookie. He's not playing because he can't shoot, and the team needs more scoring, not more defense. He's also fighting for minutes over Crowder, Smart and Jerebko, all of whom are pretty good and much more experienced.

All of that is true. There are players better than him...and better defensively. He gets lost on D. Often. That is real not imaginary. Regardless, he is by no means out of the rotation for good. He will certainly play again this year and we are in no rush nor need to forcefeed him minutes just because of his draft status.

[jmr07019]

My attitude is it's time to overpay assets to get a star to put with IT, AB and Horford and then try and sign another star or close to it in FA.

I would make a move for Butler. He's on a great contract for 19, 19 and 20 milllion the next 3 years. I would give up Crowder, Brown, Rozier and 17 Brooklyn pick to get it done. It's a ton to give up but we need to consolidate and our assets are attractive enough to get deals done now. A pitch to griffin of come play with IT, Smart, AB, Butler, Horford and KO is pretty damn good. If that fails you can try again in a year with Paul George.

[CelticFaninLBC]

The Bulls won't move Butler until the day of the draft, and probably ask for at least Brown, Smart and BKN 2017.

[Andrew McCeltic]

My attitude is it's time to overpay assets to get a star to put with IT, AB and Horford and then try and sign another star or close to it in FA.

I would make a move for Butler. He's on a great contract for 19, 19 and 20 milllion the next 3 years. I would give up Crowder, Brown, Rozier and 17 Brooklyn pick to get it done. It's a ton to give up but we need to consolidate and our assets are attractive enough to get deals done now. A pitch to griffin of come play with IT, Smart, AB, Butler, Horford and KO is pretty damn good. If that fails you can try again in a year with Paul George.

Exactly what we shouldn't do. Better off keeping Brown and pick.

Look at Cleveland, ironically- they spent years accumulating Kyrie, Thompson, Waiters, Bennett, Wiggins. Trades for the last three didn't materialize right away.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

I would be shocked if Dirk ever gets traded by Dallas. Don't care how bad they are.


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Why not? Pierce was traded when it was obvious that the Celtics needed to rebuild. Do you think Cuban and Donnie Nelson are sentimentalists?

Cuban has already gone on record saying he wouldn't.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/8839464/mark-cuban-says-dallas-mavericks-trade-dirk-nowitzki

[Curmudgeon]

I would be shocked if Dirk ever gets traded by Dallas. Don't care how bad they are.


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Why not? Pierce was traded when it was obvious that the Celtics needed to rebuild. Do you think Cuban and Donnie Nelson are sentimentalists?

Cuban has already gone on record saying he wouldn't.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/8839464/mark-cuban-says-dallas-mavericks-trade-dirk-nowitzki

How much is that worth?

[Andrew McCeltic]

Btw, any word from

or

?

Tighter ship this winter.

[CeltsfaninDC]

With Butler you're still one top-10 player in the league away.

Ditching a potential #1 overall pick in-season burns the single biggest asset we have to get that guy (whether by draft or trade).

You really want Butler? Go get him in the offseason.

The key there is "potential". Thats all those guys are. Potential good players. Potential All-stars. There are no sure things at the top of any draft. For every LeBron there are 10 Darkos out there waiting to get paid and bust out in a few years. With an actual, current all-star you KNOW you are getting a high quality NBA player. You can't say that about any player in the draft. As has been pointed out here, there are very few top 5 players from any recent draft that are making contributions that are anywhere near an all-star level. Aside from KAT and AD who do you see in the top 5 over the past 5 years who is really a difference maker? Wiggins? Otto Porter? (It took him a few years to even start to figure it out). The lottery is an absolute crap shoot and if the Cs can get a Butler from a BKL pick they should do that and let someone else roll the dice on getting Kwame Brown.

[BRUNiNHO91]

Brown, Rozier, Mickey, fillers and BKN 17 for Butler seems fair and seems about as good as Chicago could possibly get for the guy. I'm pretty sure Miinny would make a hard run with LaVine and other pieces also but at the end of the day the BKN pick would probably put us over the top. My biggest concern with the Bkn picks is that two months from noww teams like Phoenix, Philly, Nola, Miami and LA will all be shooting into their own baskets in order to lose games while Bkn will be playing their asses off to squeeze an extra win or two. That could make every difference in the world..if we keep that pick and it gives us another Marcus Smart it would be a disaster. There are no Anthony Towns in this draft and Boston is the 3rd seed competing for playoff positioning..our top 3 pick is stacking up DNP's or getting 2 minute stints..there's no room for young unproven lottery players on this team anymore. You have to play too well and mistake free to get minutes and for rookies that's just really tough.

A Butler, Bradley, Thomas, Horford, Crowder, Johnson, Smart, Olynyk and Jerebko 9 man roster coached by Stevens this year would be a nightmaree to play against in the playoffs. Next year replace Olynyk, Zeller and Jerebko with a max guy, Zizic and Yabu and you're sitting pretty with that 18 Bkn pick still in your back pocket. If an All star breaks free you have Bradley, Smart, BKN 18 and Crowder to trade with..maybe even the Memphis pick or Zizic and Yabu which could gain value.

[SmartWentCrazy]

With Butler you're still one top-10 player in the league away.

Ditching a potential #1 overall pick in-season burns the single biggest asset we have to get that guy (whether by draft or trade).

You really want Butler? Go get him in the offseason.

The key there is "potential". Thats all those guys are. Potential good players. Potential All-stars. There are no sure things at the top of any draft. For every LeBron there are 10 Darkos out there waiting to get paid and bust out in a few years. With an actual, current all-star you KNOW you are getting a high quality NBA player. You can't say that about any player in the draft. As has been pointed out here, there are very few top 5 players from any recent draft that are making contributions that are anywhere near an all-star level. Aside from KAT and AD who do you see in the top 5 over the past 5 years who is really a difference maker? Wiggins? Otto Porter? (It took him a few years to even start to figure it out). The lottery is an absolute crap shoot and if the Cs can get a Butler from a BKL pick they should do that and let someone else roll the dice on getting Kwame Brown.

Why trade for a Jimmy Butler now when we could potentially get a guy who may be as good in 5-7 years for what it'll cost to get him now?

[SmartWentCrazy]

My attitude is it's time to overpay assets to get a star to put with IT, AB and Horford and then try and sign another star or close to it in FA.

I would make a move for Butler. He's on a great contract for 19, 19 and 20 milllion the next 3 years. I would give up Crowder, Brown, Rozier and 17 Brooklyn pick to get it done. It's a ton to give up but we need to consolidate and our assets are attractive enough to get deals done now. A pitch to griffin of come play with IT, Smart, AB, Butler, Horford and KO is pretty damn good. If that fails you can try again in a year with Paul George.

Exactly what we shouldn't do. Better off keeping Brown and pick.

Look at Cleveland, ironically- they spent years accumulating Kyrie, Thompson, Waiters, Bennett, Wiggins. Trades for the last three didn't materialize right away.

The Cavs traded two of those guys for a top 10 player to attract a max guy in FA. That's exactly what people who want Butler are advocating for-- Blake Griffin or Gordon Hayward are FAR more likely to come here with Butler than without him.

We're two pieces away. Why so many of you are against acquiring one of those pieces to better position us for that final piece is beyond me.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Brown/Rozier/BKN 17 is more than we traded for Ray Allen.. Butler's younger, but has a lot of tread on the tires c/o Thibs, and Allen was a well conditioned pro.

Brown or BKN 17, with filler, is as high as you can go. Plus we don't need another guard. I don't want to underrate Butler, but upgrading from Bradley to Butler is less significant the way Avery's playing this year.

Bradley/Crowder for Butler I'd do as straight swap. We keep Brown and the BKN pick.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Brown/Rozier/BKN 17 is more than we traded for Ray Allen.. Butler's younger, but has a lot of tread on the tires c/o Thibs, and Allen was a well conditioned pro.

Brown or BKN 17, with filler, is as high as you can go. Plus we don't need another guard. I don't want to underrate Butler, but upgrading from Bradley to Butler is less significant the way Avery's playing this year.

Bradley/Crowder for Butler I'd do as straight swap. We keep Brown and the BKN pick.

Allen was 32 coming off ankle surgery, butler is 27. Look at what Love went for--and we're trading nothing near Wiggins perceived value at that time.

EDIT- Butler just carried the Bulls to a victory with a 40-11-4-3 line, and he's not good enough for some people. I don't get it. He's a two way top 10 star locked up long term with no character flaws. How is this not good enough for some people?

[Curmudgeon]

Does Jimmy Butler move the needle for any of you? He doesn't for me. Crowder gives you 90% of what Butler gives for a fraction of the cost.

"Fireworks" is dead. What matters now is player development-- not so much because the CBA has changed, but because no team has the slightest incentive to trade a top 10 player. All the franchises are flush with cash and there are no teams that can't afford their stars. You might get a disgruntled top 10 player in free agency and you might draft and develop one, but you'll never trade for one unless the deal is preposterously one-sided.

[Marvel]

lmao, Jae is 60% of Jimmy. Not nearly as good as Jimmy offensively.

[jmr07019]

With Butler you're still one top-10 player in the league away.

Ditching a potential #1 overall pick in-season burns the single biggest asset we have to get that guy (whether by draft or trade).

You really want Butler? Go get him in the offseason.

The key there is "potential". Thats all those guys are. Potential good players. Potential All-stars. There are no sure things at the top of any draft. For every LeBron there are 10 Darkos out there waiting to get paid and bust out in a few years. With an actual, current all-star you KNOW you are getting a high quality NBA player. You can't say that about any player in the draft. As has been pointed out here, there are very few top 5 players from any recent draft that are making contributions that are anywhere near an all-star level. Aside from KAT and AD who do you see in the top 5 over the past 5 years who is really a difference maker? Wiggins? Otto Porter? (It took him a few years to even start to figure it out). The lottery is an absolute crap shoot and if the Cs can get a Butler from a BKL pick they should do that and let someone else roll the dice on getting Kwame Brown.

Why trade for a Jimmy Butler now when we could potentially get a guy who may be as good in 5-7 years for what it'll cost to get him now?

1. even your post admits it's not a sure thing Brown will be as good as Butler. you are paying to remove that doubt
2. in 5-7 years IT, AB and Horford won't be nearly as good as they are now

[jmr07019]

Brown/Rozier/BKN 17 is more than we traded for Ray Allen.. Butler's younger, but has a lot of tread on the tires c/o Thibs, and Allen was a well conditioned pro.

Brown or BKN 17, with filler, is as high as you can go. Plus we don't need another guard. I don't want to underrate Butler, but upgrading from Bradley to Butler is less significant the way Avery's playing this year.

Bradley/Crowder for Butler I'd do as straight swap. We keep Brown and the BKN pick.

I want to replace Crowder with Butler. That's a much bigger upgrade than Bradley to Butler. Butler is big enough to play SF.