Johan Santana vs. Felix Hernandez

[bigboy1234]

Starting a franchise who would you take?

[Basketball Jesus]

Starting? Hernandez, no doubt. Younger, cheaper, under contract for longer, and pretty damn good.

[bigboy1234]

Starting? Hernandez, no doubt. Younger, cheaper, under contract for longer, and pretty damn good.

Ok, hypothetical, take out money and anything contract situation. Just think skill and age, would you still take Felix?

[Basketball Jesus]

But why should we exclude any kind of contractual justifications? We are starting a franchise after all and money is an important factor when it comes to fielding a start-up team. Expected low revenues pretty much dictate that an expansion team needs to find talent on the cheap.

[Basketball Jesus]

Taking out the whole

[bigboy1234]

Because this is an internet message board, and me and you aren't the owners of an actual team.

And for the record, the hypothetical I said, I still would pick Felix.

Taking out the whole

[Basketball Jesus]

See, I like the whole

[Basketball Jesus]

Then the answer doesn't become as clear-cut and makes the argument much more interesting.

[Boston's Future]

I'd take Johan because he is THE best pitcher in major league baseball. Felix is still a bit shaky at times to me, and at a very young age has had several arm injuries.

[cmaff051]

Santana. I don't think King Felix will ever be completely healthy with that violent motion of his.

[sideshowking24]

Santana. I don't think King Felix will ever be completely healthy with that violent motion of his.

about that, I was able to be a part of a Q&A session with Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus who specializes in injuries and he said that he would not be suprised if Felix was to seriously injure his arm at some point in his career because of his terrible mechanics. His mechanics or so bad at times that his release point and delivery are not just different from night to night but from pitch to pitch.

[34Celtic]

whos Will Carroll? I'd rather talk to someone who was either A) a trainer or B) who works for a major league team.

As for his mechanics or delivery being off, you have more of a concern with location of your pitches immediately than injuries.

[cmaff051]

whos Will Carroll? I'd rather talk to someone who was either A) a trainer or B) who works for a major league team.

As for his mechanics or delivery being off, you have more of a concern with location of your pitches immediately than injuries.

Wil Carroll works for Baseball Prospectus and he is well known in the baseball sabermetrics field. He typically analyzes pitcher's mechanics for any flaws that he feels is in a pitcher's delivery.

I would trust him more than a trainer or somebody who works for a major league team. How do you know Caroll doesn't know more about pitching injuries than either a trainer or just some random baseball guy?

This is really getting sad, 34Celtic. You seem to want to smear everybody from the baseball sabermetric community.

[mets87]

celtic, have you ever pitched...?

[sideshowking24]

Yea Celtic, I too would trust Carroll more than any trainer or someone associated with a major league team because they are never going to give you the whole story. When small arm injuries occur, trainers will even go as far as to hide it from the pitcher so that they wont begin to think something is going wrong in their arm.... and as far as mechanics throwing off location, yes that is the immediate concern but the more important long term concern is the consistent damage that can be going on inside of the arm due to the improper mechanics, leading to more serious arm injuries down the road.

[Basketball Jesus]

whos Will Carroll? I'd rather talk to someone who was either A) a trainer or B) who works for a major league team.

Regardless of his employer, Carroll is one of the most well-regarded authorities of injuries in baseball. He's done more research on injuries - whether hands-on or statistical - than almost anybody in the history of the game.

As for his mechanics or delivery being off, you have more of a concern with location of your pitches immediately than injuries.

This is false and, as someone with a scouting background, you know it. Any kind of labored or violent delivery (or any delivery with a considerable amount of "noise") is always a concern for injury. That's why pitching coaches in the minors try to smooth a player's mechanics.[/quote]

[34Celtic]

celtic, have you ever pitched...?

Yup, and I couldn't repeat my mechanics so I quickly was moved to CF

[34Celtic]

Yeah but smoothing mechanics will also help you repeat your delivery and arm action. If you can get consistent arm action, you will have consistent pitch location.

Sorry I didn't know who this Carrol guy was.

All this said I'll still take Santana.

[sideshowking24]

I think Santana is the better choice right now too, even though he is older.

[Griff83]

Santana