The case AGAINST keeping Millsap

[YogurtProducer]

God I hope we can scoop Millsap up from you guys.

How do you guys think about Jonas even though you have Dwight?

I was thinking something like Ross+Poeltl+Picks or Valanciunas+Picks or something along those lines.. unless of course you guys want Demarre Carroll back

[Jamaaliver]

God I hope we can scoop Millsap up from you guys.

How do you guys think about Jonas even though you have Dwight?

I was thinking something like Ross+Poeltl+Picks or Valanciunas+Picks or something along those lines.. unless of course you guys want Demarre Carroll back

If our GM has any sense at all, we take the Ross/Poeltl package and run.

[YogurtProducer]

God I hope we can scoop Millsap up from you guys.

How do you guys think about Jonas even though you have Dwight?

I was thinking something like Ross+Poeltl+Picks or Valanciunas+Picks or something along those lines.. unless of course you guys want Demarre Carroll back

If our GM has any sense at all, we take the Ross/Poeltl package and run.

Honestly I think I would do Ross and Poeltl. At some point we have to make a move. Poeltl won't get minutes unless we make a move, and Powell is a fantastic candidate to take all of Ross's minutes. Having youth is nice and all but at some point we gotta go all in because what's the point of having so much youth if by the time they reach their potential Demar and Kyle are past their primes..?

Does something along the lines of Ross/Poeltl/LAC 2017 1st for Millsap/Thabo work? I'm getting myself to excited here

[No-Man]

Ross, PatPat, Poeltl, Caboclo and Wright, plus LAC's 1st for Millsap, Scott and Thabo is what I'd be aiming for, obviously you start asking for Powell but it's unlikely they part ways with him.
Trade Korver away to the highest bidder, hopefully for a 1st, cut Kelly.

Schröder-Wright/Delaney
Bazemore-Hardaway-Bembry
Ross-Prince-Caboclo
Patterson-Muscala-Humphries
Howard-Poeltl-Splitter

I think you can still make the PO in the East and your future outlook is much clear.

[dms269]

God I hope we can scoop Millsap up from you guys.

How do you guys think about Jonas even though you have Dwight?

I was thinking something like Ross+Poeltl+Picks or Valanciunas+Picks or something along those lines.. unless of course you guys want Demarre Carroll back

Jonas would be a disaster paired with Dwight as both are primarily post players. Millsap appeal to an offense like Atlanta is he is able to step out and fit jumpers, something Jonas is quite miserable at doing outside of 9 feet (.400 from 10+ feet). He also would create a huge issue with the clogging of the lane and will make Dennis look even worse when he drives.

I don't get the love affair with Ross. He seems to be very similar to Korver, especially with a better obpm for this season. Yes he can shoot but he isn't this star shooter who is going to be a 20 ppg scorer. Is it because he is making 10M per for the next 3? I guess in the new cba that is an okay salary, but if he is supposed to be adding a ton of value I just don't see it.

[Jamaaliver]

Does something along the lines of Ross/Poeltl/LAC 2017 1st for Millsap/Thabo work? I'm getting myself to excited here

If we actually move Millsap. this seems like the type of haul we could reasonably expect to get.

(Though, in honesty, I'd be okay with bringing back DeMarre instead of Ross.)

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

[Double Helix]

God I hope we can scoop Millsap up from you guys.

How do you guys think about Jonas even though you have Dwight?

I was thinking something like Ross+Poeltl+Picks or Valanciunas+Picks or something along those lines.. unless of course you guys want Demarre Carroll back

Jonas would be a disaster paired with Dwight as both are primarily post players. Millsap appeal to an offense like Atlanta is he is able to step out and fit jumpers, something Jonas is quite miserable at doing outside of 9 feet (.400 from 10+ feet). He also would create a huge issue with the clogging of the lane and will make Dennis look even worse when he drives.

I don't get the love affair with Ross. He seems to be very similar to Korver, especially with a better obpm for this season. Yes he can shoot but he isn't this star shooter who is going to be a 20 ppg scorer. Is it because he is making 10M per for the next 3? I guess in the new cba that is an okay salary, but if he is supposed to be adding a ton of value I just don't see it.

Regarding Korver versus Ross...

Note where Kyle Korver is at here as a 36 year old SG

Now imagine a player a decade younger in your organization who has not had the opportunity most #8 overall pick SGs would have as a result of playing being a Team USA player like Derozan. Note where Ross is here as a SF. Over limited minutes he's been one of the better 2 way wings this year. He's ready for more. He just won't get it here.

Maybe you're more a PER fan? Even still note where Ross is this year.

You're very much underrating how valuable Ross could be as a long-term addition to your team at SG.

Just for perspective I have done a per minute estimate of how Ross over 36 min compares to an elite SG like Klay Thompson, who also mixes up high volume per minute 3 point shooting with some scoring elsewhere.Go to the "per 36 minute section of the comparison" to get a better idea of what Ross might become for you and what kind of production that would look like for you when compared to a stud like Klay. Note the 3 point attempt similarities. The %s. The scoring possibilities if Ross took on more minutes and high usage.

This comparison is meant only to show how interesting Ross could be over more minutes starting on a new team. He's an above average starting caliber SG stuck in a log jam for minutes with Derozan and the longer Carroll. Powell is also a guy the Raps see as an Avery Bradley-like talent so it's crowded for minutes and they won't mess with what's been working just to showcase Ross more.




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Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[dms269]

God I hope we can scoop Millsap up from you guys.

How do you guys think about Jonas even though you have Dwight?

I was thinking something like Ross+Poeltl+Picks or Valanciunas+Picks or something along those lines.. unless of course you guys want Demarre Carroll back

Jonas would be a disaster paired with Dwight as both are primarily post players. Millsap appeal to an offense like Atlanta is he is able to step out and fit jumpers, something Jonas is quite miserable at doing outside of 9 feet (.400 from 10+ feet). He also would create a huge issue with the clogging of the lane and will make Dennis look even worse when he drives.

I don't get the love affair with Ross. He seems to be very similar to Korver, especially with a better obpm for this season. Yes he can shoot but he isn't this star shooter who is going to be a 20 ppg scorer. Is it because he is making 10M per for the next 3? I guess in the new cba that is an okay salary, but if he is supposed to be adding a ton of value I just don't see it.

Regarding Korver versus Ross...

Note where Kyle Korver is at here as a 36 year old SG

Now imagine a player a decade younger in your organization who has not had the opportunity most #8 overall pick SGs would have as a result of playing being a Team USA player like Derozan. Note where Ross is here as a SF. Over limited minutes he's been one of the better 2 way wings this year. He's ready for more. He just won't get it here.

Maybe you're more a PER fan? Even still note where Ross is this year.

You're very much underrating how valuable Ross could be as a long-term addition to your team at SG.

Just for perspective I have done a per minute estimate of how Ross over 36 min compares to an elite SG like Klay Thompson, who also mixes up high volume per minute 3 point shooting with some scoring elsewhere.Go to the "per 36 minute section of the comparison" to get a better idea of what Ross might become for you and what kind of production that would look like for you when compared to a stud like Klay. Note the 3 point attempt similarities. The %s. The scoring possibilities if Ross took on more minutes and high usage.

This comparison is meant only to show how interesting Ross could be over more minutes starting on a new team. He's an above average starting caliber SG stuck in a log jam for minutes with Derozan and the longer Carroll. Powell is also a guy the Raps see as an Avery Bradley-like talent so it's crowded for minutes and they won't mess with what's been working just to showcase Ross more.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Per 36 is an inherently flawed measure and realistically means nothing. Yes if Ross kept up his percentages over 16 more minutes he would be a great player, however the chance that would be the truth is minimal. Muscala is killing it percentage wise, so is per 36 says he would be a 13/6 pg with the capability of hitting 3's at a high rate for a big. The truth is if you increase a players production that much their percentages usually fall off with given production (Like when Korver was on pace to set that record but fell off, stats equalize out given time).

I'm not saying Ross isn't a good player. I am saying I don't think Ross is the second coming of Reggie Miller. He is a solid 3&D player, but I don't see him being a player who is a 20 ppg scorer for a team. We have to value players for what they are, not what they might be on the right team in the right situation. On a team like Atlanta, expecting Ross to play 30 mpg on a team who has had their best wing play only 28 and plays the same position as 3 other players who each get 20+ mpg, only further creates a log jam (Atlanta won't just toss in Korver or Thabo, so I am keeping their numbers there). I would Ross on Atlanta is probably a very similar player to who he is now. 20-25 mpg, around 11-12 ppg and solid percentages.

[Double Helix]

Jonas would be a disaster paired with Dwight as both are primarily post players. Millsap appeal to an offense like Atlanta is he is able to step out and fit jumpers, something Jonas is quite miserable at doing outside of 9 feet (.400 from 10+ feet). He also would create a huge issue with the clogging of the lane and will make Dennis look even worse when he drives.

I don't get the love affair with Ross. He seems to be very similar to Korver, especially with a better obpm for this season. Yes he can shoot but he isn't this star shooter who is going to be a 20 ppg scorer. Is it because he is making 10M per for the next 3? I guess in the new cba that is an okay salary, but if he is supposed to be adding a ton of value I just don't see it.

Regarding Korver versus Ross...

Note where Kyle Korver is at here as a 36 year old SG

Now imagine a player a decade younger in your organization who has not had the opportunity most #8 overall pick SGs would have as a result of playing being a Team USA player like Derozan. Note where Ross is here as a SF. Over limited minutes he's been one of the better 2 way wings this year. He's ready for more. He just won't get it here.

Maybe you're more a PER fan? Even still note where Ross is this year.

You're very much underrating how valuable Ross could be as a long-term addition to your team at SG.

Just for perspective I have done a per minute estimate of how Ross over 36 min compares to an elite SG like Klay Thompson, who also mixes up high volume per minute 3 point shooting with some scoring elsewhere.Go to the "per 36 minute section of the comparison" to get a better idea of what Ross might become for you and what kind of production that would look like for you when compared to a stud like Klay. Note the 3 point attempt similarities. The %s. The scoring possibilities if Ross took on more minutes and high usage.

This comparison is meant only to show how interesting Ross could be over more minutes starting on a new team. He's an above average starting caliber SG stuck in a log jam for minutes with Derozan and the longer Carroll. Powell is also a guy the Raps see as an Avery Bradley-like talent so it's crowded for minutes and they won't mess with what's been working just to showcase Ross more.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Per 36 is an inherently flawed measure and realistically means nothing. Yes if Ross kept up his percentages over 16 more minutes he would be a great player, however the chance that would be the truth is minimal. Muscala is killing it percentage wise, so is per 36 says he would be a 13/6 pg with the capability of hitting 3's at a high rate for a big. The truth is if you increase a players production that much their percentages usually fall off with given production (Like when Korver was on pace to set that record but fell off, stats equalize out given time).

I'm not saying Ross isn't a good player. I am saying I don't think Ross is the second coming of Reggie Miller. He is a solid 3&D player, but I don't see him being a player who is a 20 ppg scorer for a team. We have to value players for what they are, not what they might be on the right team in the right situation. On a team like Atlanta, expecting Ross to play 30 mpg on a team who has had their best wing play only 28 and plays the same position as 3 other players who each get 20+ mpg, only further creates a log jam (Atlanta won't just toss in Korver or Thabo, so I am keeping their numbers there). I would Ross on Atlanta is probably a very similar player to who he is now. 20-25 mpg, around 11-12 ppg and solid percentages.

I hear you and would agree normally about putting too much faith in per minute extrapolations involving low minute players but this is a guy who has started before. He started out of position, mind you, and did so when he was too young for it but if the Ross of this year was the one starting and playing 26 mins then he'd have easily been a 14ppg guy on great percentages. He's much more assertive than he was earlier in his career. He's capable of more than that at his natural position of SG and for your organization I just don't see why he wouldn't push Korver out the door. Korver is nearly 36 years old and is ranked 78th in Real +/- at his position. He's hurting you guys more now than helping.

Ross is just hitting his stride. Not many wings have better PERs, Real +/- impacts or even just the physical characteristics of having such a wet jumper with his cat-like reflexes and athleticism this year. When was the last time ATL had a guard capable of inside/outside feats like this? You have to see him lately to see why I believe he's capable of more in a new situation. This is a former #8 overall lotto pick. He's not some D league guy that's suddenly playing better. He was expected to get better. It just took him more time because he was forced to SF due to Derozan's presence and then found himself stuck behind Derozan when it was clear he was more of a SG who could lock up SGs. He has so much more on offer than a 3&D guy due to his athleticism and improved off the bounce game but he's stuck behind Derozan so you don't get to see it.

Best part? You'd get him in prime years on a dirt cheap deal under the new CBA.

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[YogurtProducer]

God I hope we can scoop Millsap up from you guys.

How do you guys think about Jonas even though you have Dwight?

I was thinking something like Ross+Poeltl+Picks or Valanciunas+Picks or something along those lines.. unless of course you guys want Demarre Carroll back

Jonas would be a disaster paired with Dwight as both are primarily post players. Millsap appeal to an offense like Atlanta is he is able to step out and fit jumpers, something Jonas is quite miserable at doing outside of 9 feet (.400 from 10+ feet). He also would create a huge issue with the clogging of the lane and will make Dennis look even worse when he drives.

I don't get the love affair with Ross. He seems to be very similar to Korver, especially with a better obpm for this season. Yes he can shoot but he isn't this star shooter who is going to be a 20 ppg scorer. Is it because he is making 10M per for the next 3? I guess in the new cba that is an okay salary, but if he is supposed to be adding a ton of value I just don't see it.

I assume if you move Millsap you have to look into moving Dwight as well or else you guys will be in such an awkward position. That's why I suggested Val as I assume Howard would be gone as well.

Schroeder/Valanciunas is a solid place to start a rebuild plus whatever picks you could get plus whatever haul you'd get for Dwight.

I have fair from a love affair with Ross, but he does have the potential to break out into a 20ppg scorer if he was put onto a team like yours that would be rebuilding. A Schroeder/Ross/Poeltl foundation would be quite interesting to build on. You wouldn't win many games today but in the future all 3 have good starter potential and I could see Dennis or Ross developing into an all star

[ATL Boy]

God I hope we can scoop Millsap up from you guys.

How do you guys think about Jonas even though you have Dwight?

I was thinking something like Ross+Poeltl+Picks or Valanciunas+Picks or something along those lines.. unless of course you guys want Demarre Carroll back

Jonas would be a disaster paired with Dwight as both are primarily post players. Millsap appeal to an offense like Atlanta is he is able to step out and fit jumpers, something Jonas is quite miserable at doing outside of 9 feet (.400 from 10+ feet). He also would create a huge issue with the clogging of the lane and will make Dennis look even worse when he drives.

I don't get the love affair with Ross. He seems to be very similar to Korver, especially with a better obpm for this season. Yes he can shoot but he isn't this star shooter who is going to be a 20 ppg scorer. Is it because he is making 10M per for the next 3? I guess in the new cba that is an okay salary, but if he is supposed to be adding a ton of value I just don't see it.

I assume if you move Millsap you have to look into moving Dwight as well or else you guys will be in such an awkward position. That's why I suggested Val as I assume Howard would be gone as well.

Schroeder/Valanciunas is a solid place to start a rebuild plus whatever picks you could get plus whatever haul you'd get for Dwight.

I have fair from a love affair with Ross, but he does have the potential to break out into a 20ppg scorer if he was put onto a team like yours that would be rebuilding. A Schroeder/Ross/Poeltl foundation would be quite interesting to build on. You wouldn't win many games today but in the future all 3 have good starter potential and I could see Dennis or Ross developing into an all star

Wouldn't be a good look if we shopped Dwight. We made that big marketing ploy of him "coming home" and, in truth, he's the biggest free agent to come here since Dikembe Mutombo (Millsap also came as a FA but he didn't really have the credentials Dwight had at the time). Trading him away would probably hurt us when dealing with future FAs.

[YogurtProducer]

Jonas would be a disaster paired with Dwight as both are primarily post players. Millsap appeal to an offense like Atlanta is he is able to step out and fit jumpers, something Jonas is quite miserable at doing outside of 9 feet (.400 from 10+ feet). He also would create a huge issue with the clogging of the lane and will make Dennis look even worse when he drives.

I don't get the love affair with Ross. He seems to be very similar to Korver, especially with a better obpm for this season. Yes he can shoot but he isn't this star shooter who is going to be a 20 ppg scorer. Is it because he is making 10M per for the next 3? I guess in the new cba that is an okay salary, but if he is supposed to be adding a ton of value I just don't see it.

I assume if you move Millsap you have to look into moving Dwight as well or else you guys will be in such an awkward position. That's why I suggested Val as I assume Howard would be gone as well.

Schroeder/Valanciunas is a solid place to start a rebuild plus whatever picks you could get plus whatever haul you'd get for Dwight.

I have fair from a love affair with Ross, but he does have the potential to break out into a 20ppg scorer if he was put onto a team like yours that would be rebuilding. A Schroeder/Ross/Poeltl foundation would be quite interesting to build on. You wouldn't win many games today but in the future all 3 have good starter potential and I could see Dennis or Ross developing into an all star

Wouldn't be a good look if we shopped Dwight. We made that big marketing ploy of him "coming home" and, in truth, he's the biggest free agent to come here since Dikembe Mutombo (Millsap also came as a FA but he didn't really have the credentials Dwight had at the time). Trading him away would probably hurt us when dealing with future FAs.

Possibly but I think all you would have to say "it was Dwight, enough said?" and most people would understand.

If you guys were to be upfront with Dwight and say you wanted to rebuild do you think he would want to be moved?

[Jamaaliver]

Where Should The Hawks Ship [Millsap]?

Needs Millsap Most: Raptors
Toronto won’t get many more chances to add an All-Star of Millsap’s caliber, and now could be the moment for the Raptors to turn themselves into an actual contender.


Needs To Be Most Careful: Nuggets
Denver is something of a Boston West, a team chockful of assets waiting to cash in on the right situation. ESPN reported the Nuggets and Hawks had deep discussions about a Millsap trade last summer, but Denver should pump the brakes before swinging a big deal this winter. If the Nuggets are going to make a deal, they need to find a star who is on more solid footing. Acquiring Millsap now, for a team that likely won’t make the playoffs let alone make any noise, would be short-sighted...

Really Should Jump In The Race: Thunder
Hmmm, could the Thunder find a way to acquire Millsap? Would something like Enes Kanter, Domantas Sabonis and some picks be enough for Atlanta?

Here

[ATL Boy]

I'd prefer we ship him out west somewhere. I don't think we're going full rebuild if we pull the trigger on a Millsap move right now. Bud will still want the playoffs, and I'd rather not see him in a 7 game series.

One thing to look out for is the upcoming schedule. @ORL, @NOP, @DAL, @BK, vs BOS, vs MK, @NYK, @DET, vs. CHI, vs. PHI

Every one of those games is winnable for Atlanta, and they should be the favorites in almost all of them. Would a good upcoming run dissuade the front office from moving Millsap in an attempt at another run at it?

[ATL Boy]

Also:

Read on Twitter

[Jamaaliver]

Every one of those games is winnable for Atlanta...Would a good upcoming run dissuade the front office from moving Millsap in an attempt at another run at it?

I have no doubt that it will dissuade them. We'll likely stand pat. Win 47 games. Lose in the second round. and then be stuck with two bad options:

1) Over pay Millsap and commit to him as he begins his steady descent into his past-prime years, or

2)Watch him walk away without us receiving any compensation.

[ATL Boy]

Also:

Read on Twitter

I've been reading up on the Raptors board, and hopefully this report puts to rest the notion some of their fans have that Millsap is demanding a trade away from the team, a notion they're using to throw out low-ball offers.

[dms269]

Also:

Read on Twitter

I've been reading up on the Raptors board, and hopefully this report puts to rest the notion some of their fans have that Millsap is demanding a trade away from the team, a notion they're using to throw out low-ball offers.

You mean we don't want to take back DMC and Bruno and be happy that we got that from them?

[ATL Boy]

Also:

Read on Twitter

I've been reading up on the Raptors board, and hopefully this report puts to rest the notion some of their fans have that Millsap is demanding a trade away from the team, a notion they're using to throw out low-ball offers.

You mean we don't want to take back DMC and Bruno and be happy that we got that from them?

Wait, they threw in Bruno too?! I was looking at that one really enticing offer of Carroll and a 2nd, where if we don't immediately accept Masai Ujiri should tell us to go eff ourselves because apparently the Raptors are the only team in the league we can trade Millsap to.