Magic PG: So Let Me Get This Straight...

[El Poochio]

KP is the second best rim protector in the league. The only time he looks bad is when he covers for others on the perimeter. If he just stayed mid range in, which is where he should be, he'd look a lot better.

Not just rim, he is still the best starting forward in fg % allowed, despite the high number of attempts he face



http://stats.nba.com/players/defensive-impact/#!?sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=F&StarterBench=Starters&CF=GP*GE*10

[god shammgod]

How long has Melo been here? okay..

and we used to get the playoffs here too. then he got injured and old. sh*t happens. it's over.

I didnt expect him to carry some of those teams. He couldnt carry the same team to 50 wins minus Kurt,Camby, Sheed, and KIdd. that just shows how he needs leaders around him desperately.

he's not a leader. he never was. why would that change ? just like harden he was a deadly offensive weapon who wasn't very interested in defense. and just like harden without some help he went nowhere.

[F N 11]

The rockets entire is constructed to excel at jacking 3's. The entire starting 5 can shoot 3's.

So what ? They are winning. Lets not act like Harden wasnt the best player when they went to the WCF.

the point is you're talking about a guy in his prime vs a guy heading down. of course harden is better now. was that a question ? he was better last year too.

Im not talking about now. Melo got here at age 26 and he did not do anything. He was a good scorer but man that didnt amount to anything. I was a Melo fan but now im seeing what it is. He is a Robin who needs a batman.

[dakomish23]

Gobert. My God.

Those mf'ers have mostly figured out that you don't challenge KP at the rim but some still do.









Wrong focus. Both yours and those that think the team will improve if he leaves. They'll be really bad. But who cares. The question is who can be part of a solution, now and in the future. Keeping/acquiring players like that. Melo ain't moving the needle back. Particularly with his effort on the defensive end.

I'm going to have to disagree Cap. If a player came here and are going to start whining like a little bitch when things go bad then you can leave. That should be the mindset. Not let's twist this against Melo. Has he been bad? Yes. So now these fools get to keep bashing him and literally make every f'n issue about him? This fan base gets dumber every year

Lee can go too but I ain't twisting ****. Carmelo's defense has been among the worst in the league. 77th out of 80 small forwards in DRPM and I've seen it suck with my own two eyes. When your highest paid player and leader has thrown in the towel on D you're sunk. If you can't defend, any one player being off on a given night gives you no chance to win.

Other players have contributed but Melo is one of the biggest offenders, if not the biggest. And it comes down to effort and focus with him, as he can defend unlike guys like Jennings who just sucks at it and Willy who has a lot to learn.

KP, in contrast, is 12th in DRPM and 16th in ORPM. But, you know, everyone is a contributor and should get the same amount of blame

I've never made an excuse for Melo being bad on D. I think when he makes the right play or positive play same folks hide but then come out if he makes a bad play. And folks ignore all the times he dimes dudes up and they miss. And folks ignore how once again this roster is filled with meh talent and expects him to carry it again. F that.

Where am I bashing KP? Where have I bashed KP ever? Not sure why you're bringing him up.

[dakomish23]

So what ? They are winning. Lets not act like Harden wasnt the best player when they went to the WCF.

the point is you're talking about a guy in his prime vs a guy heading down. of course harden is better now. was that a question ? he was better last year too.

Im not talking about now. Melo got here at age 26 and he did not do anything. He was a good scorer but man that didnt amount to anything. I was a Melo fan but now im seeing what it is. He is a Robin who needs a batman.

WAS a Melo fan but since he's not able to carry a garbage roster anymore you're not a fan anymore.

Thx for the clarification. And I'm in agreement with you on needing an alpha scorer. Too bad we don't have a batman

[KnickFan33]

Could the reason that they have to keep turning the roster over is because the guys they had arent that good but were asked to do way more than possible because this FO sucks? Have you ever seen a top player have such pathetic help?

Toney Douglas as your staring PG in 11-12 is Melo's fault? Amare taking 33% of the cap to play 33% of the game is his fault too? At his peak he dragged a team with Felton as the starter & JR as the #2 option to 54 wins. And folks here are giving the credit to Sheed and Camby did Melo make the Bargs deal? That's one of the worst deals in recent NBA history.

Melo's had the worst year of his career to date. No denying that. But this idea that it's his fault that the roster keeps changing or that a new GM puts in his coach m, then fires that coach (!!!!!) is ridiculous.

But someone has to be the scapegoat. I can't wait till Melo is gone and maybe you will put the blame where it should be. Melo shouldn't be absolved but he is far from the main culprit in this script

Folks are literally putting years of foolish FO management on Melo.

I think the reason is more the fan base. As the saying goes... "You can't rebuild in New York."

For the most part, I think moves made have been focused towards pleasing the casual fan base. And what placates the casual fan? Big names, regardless of how they may affect a team.

What other plausible reason would there be to sign Noah to such a ludicrous contract?

If you look at all the FO decisions made since the Melo trade, how many of them would rank amongst the worst 50 of all teams combined over that time period?

Opting into Billups, only to amnesty him. So then you couldn't amnesty Amare to get Melo help in his prime

Letting Lin go for nothing

Trading picks to give contracts that you end up wanting to dump anyway - Camby / Felton, I'm sure I'm missing folks

The Bargs deal - which to me is the worst trade in the last 5 years. Absolutely zero value from it. Can't even do a ratio of value to cost because the value is zero.

The Tyson trade that literally gave us nothing back. Not one piece is on this team 2 years later.

Now the Noah deal

Not sure how folks don't see all the monumental failures of this franchise and instead say, "F u Melo, a true champion would make this work".

Newsflash - the best players would of left this god forsaken franchise in 2014 with zero regrets

I'm saying the reason for turnover is money. The casual fan recognizes names, and that translates to interest and tickets/merchandise sold. Let's look at some signings and trades that made the biggest news and how they were potentially marketed.

Rose - MVP
Noah - DPOY
Bargs - Former 1st pick
Chandler - Anchored team that just won a championship
Stoudemire - Superstar
Melo - Superstar
Marbury - All-Star
Randolph - All-Star
Steve Francis - All-star
Jalen Rose - All star
Curry - "Next Shaq"

Hell, Woodson said we'd match anything for Lin simply because of 2 weeks of Lin-frikkin-sanity.

Now take away the free agent signings, which for the most part didn't hurt us... How many of those trades crippled our cap and draft pick flexibility? And what did the players acquired through trades really add to the team? How many of them didn't fit with whatever we had on the roster? The only thing they really have in common is something of name recognition.

The casual fan knows names, and they're the ones that the most money is made off of.

[Gary Cokeman]

The signing of Noah was an abject failure from the moment he signed that contract. The entire league is going toward only playing one big, which has significantly decreased the demand on centers and now you can likely trade for one without breaking the bank. Look at Denver, they tried a Jokic Nurkic combo which was a failure and they will likely trade Nurkic as a result. Look at Sacramento, they can't play Koufos or WCS regularly because Cousins is a center. Instead, we went the other way and gave a brokedown Noah a 4 year deal that was immediately untradeable (without attaching assets) for at least two season, and likely three until he is an expiring. Moreover, it forced us to start him, which then makes our defense look even worse because Melo plays exclusively on the perimeter on defense where he is a liability and the same goes for KP.

Agreed.
Melo defends well on the block and can keep up with the Ryan Andersons of the world while KP is best when roaming the paint so he can swat shots.

Call up Portland and start a conversation on a Harkless for Noah deal.

KP
Melo
Harkless
Lee
Rose


This off-season you let Rose walk and go get Holiday while keeping his bro. Trade Kyle for a 1st and and let BJ walk too.

KP/Willy/Plumlee
Melo/1st rd pick/?
Harkless/Kuz/?
Lee/Holiday/Baker
Holiday/1st rd pick/?

Melo is not part of the future, he doesn't solve any of our problems, and im not exactly sure what his purpose on this team is anymore.. to hog the ball and jack up inefficient mid ranges while gettin torched on defense? He's been fools gold ever since he got here.

[god shammgod]

So what ? They are winning. Lets not act like Harden wasnt the best player when they went to the WCF.

the point is you're talking about a guy in his prime vs a guy heading down. of course harden is better now. was that a question ? he was better last year too.

Im not talking about now. Melo got here at age 26 and he did not do anything. He was a good scorer but man that didnt amount to anything. I was a Melo fan but now im seeing what it is. He is a Robin who needs a batman.

i have no idea why you ever thought melo on his own was gonna do anything. and this robin/batman concept sh*t is overrated. lebron needed wade. wade took all the shots late the first couple years. hell, kyrie takes them now. so who was batman ? don't matter anyway right now. at this age, melo needs the whole damn justice league.

[Sark]

KP is the second best rim protector in the league. The only time he looks bad is when he covers for others on the perimeter. If he just stayed mid range in, which is where he should be, he'd look a lot better.

Not just rim, he is still the best starting forward in fg % allowed, despite the high number of attempts he face



http://stats.nba.com/players/defensive-impact/#!?sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=F&StarterBench=Starters&CF=GP*GE*10

The reason teams shoot so much on him is he is the only one who really challenges shots. Melo, Rose, and Noah are all sieves on defense. It's not just a Melo thing, though he is the greatest offender due to his position in the heirarchy.

[F N 11]

the point is you're talking about a guy in his prime vs a guy heading down. of course harden is better now. was that a question ? he was better last year too.

Im not talking about now. Melo got here at age 26 and he did not do anything. He was a good scorer but man that didnt amount to anything. I was a Melo fan but now im seeing what it is. He is a Robin who needs a batman.

WAS a Melo fan but since he's not able to carry a garbage roster anymore you're not a fan anymore.

Thx for the clarification. And I'm in agreement with you on needing an alpha scorer. Too bad we don't have a batman

I have a Melo poster in my man cave and I doubt I take it down. Im big on underdogs overcoming criticism. However Melo just cant do it. Maybe he's old. Maybe he needs to play PF. I put him up there with the likes of the best. Hell we even were saying he's a better scorer than Durant at one point. How dumb was that.

It is what it is. I loved his effort and passion to stay here and try to win. He's not helping us win. Time to move on. Accept things for what they are.

[Red Vines]

Echo what Hahn is saying, Melo cant physically get it done and he's the last person to realize it... Says Melo's people will encourage him to leave, let's hope so.

[Capn'O]

I'm going to have to disagree Cap. If a player came here and are going to start whining like a little bitch when things go bad then you can leave. That should be the mindset. Not let's twist this against Melo. Has he been bad? Yes. So now these fools get to keep bashing him and literally make every f'n issue about him? This fan base gets dumber every year

Lee can go too but I ain't twisting ****. Carmelo's defense has been among the worst in the league. 77th out of 80 small forwards in DRPM and I've seen it suck with my own two eyes. When your highest paid player and leader has thrown in the towel on D you're sunk. If you can't defend, any one player being off on a given night gives you no chance to win.

Other players have contributed but Melo is one of the biggest offenders, if not the biggest. And it comes down to effort and focus with him, as he can defend unlike guys like Jennings who just sucks at it and Willy who has a lot to learn.

KP, in contrast, is 12th in DRPM and 16th in ORPM. But, you know, everyone is a contributor and should get the same amount of blame

I've never made an excuse for Melo being bad on D. I think when he makes the right play or positive play same folks hide but then come out if he makes a bad play. And folks ignore all the times he dimes dudes up and they miss. And folks ignore how once again this roster is filled with meh talent and expects him to carry it again. F that.

Every player here has stans and haters. Melo has actually been good for our offense this year and the haters will twist their way out of that one. I can't forgive him on defense though. When you check out on that end, you lose me. Especially after watching him step up last season.

Where am I bashing KP? Where have I bashed KP ever? Not sure why you're bringing him up.

Forgive me if I lumped you in with people that are bringing that ridiculous false equivalency back in here.

[Sark]

Harden's second best player is Clint Capela. What he is doing this year is better than anything Melo ever did in his career. Which is sad because Melo is the more talented player, but he just would never adapt to being a true team player the way Harden does.

[El Poochio]

KP is the second best rim protector in the league. The only time he looks bad is when he covers for others on the perimeter. If he just stayed mid range in, which is where he should be, he'd look a lot better.

Not just rim, he is still the best starting forward in fg % allowed, despite the high number of attempts he face



http://stats.nba.com/players/defensive-impact/#!?sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=F&StarterBench=Starters&CF=GP*GE*10

The reason teams shoot so much on him is he is the only one who really challenges shots. Melo, Rose, and Noah are all sieves on defense. It's not just a Melo thing, though he is the greatest offender due to his position in the heirarchy.

In this list, the bigger you are the more shots you face, Boogie and AD face similar amount but lower than KP and defend worse, you will see all after scrolling down a bit, if these stats keep up in near future teams will start ignoring Unicorn Island on offense

[Yankeeknickfan]

KP is pretty good at defense. He just looks bad sometimes because he has to cover for Melo.

More like he has to cover for Rose/BJ.
Watch the games

[F N 11]

Echo what Hahn is saying, Melo cant physically get it done and he's the last person to realize it... Says Melo's people will encourage him to leave, let's hope so.

Forget the offense, he doesnt try on D. But on offense he gives his all. Its frustrating. His ego wont allow him to see hes declining. Even D Rose says hes not the same player and stop saying hes back.

[god shammgod]

Echo what Hahn is saying, Melo cant physically get it done and he's the last person to realize it... Says Melo's people will encourage him to leave, let's hope so.

he can't physically play these minutes anymore. that's for sure. he's obviously hurt right now. his jumper is way off.

[Red Vines]

Echo what Hahn is saying, Melo cant physically get it done and he's the last person to realize it... Says Melo's people will encourage him to leave, let's hope so.

Forget the offense, he doesnt try on D. But on offense he gives his all. Its frustrating. His ego wont allow him to see hes declining. Even D Rose says hes not the same player and stop saying hes back.

Melo has so many endorsements and business ventures, even if he knows he's sucking he can't say it out loud.

[Quiet-Dude]

The Knicks will only succeed when they trade Anthony... Is obvious they don't need him, trade him for first rounds picks and build around KP. ONLY blind delusional fans can't see that hes a get his stats selfish cancer.

[Gary Cokeman]

Harden's second best player is Clint Capela. What he is doing this year is better than anything Melo ever did in his career. Which is sad because Melo is the more talented player, but he just would never adapt to being a true team player the way Harden does.

In what alternate universe is Melo more talented than Harden?