Magic PG: So Let Me Get This Straight...

[Jay10]

Knicks keep turning the roster over, turning the coaches over, and yet still play offense a certain way and tend to have the same issues on defense? Yet who is the constant? I've generally supported Melo but it's time to see what the issue is.

Players can be good but ultimately not that conducive to good teams. Part of it is the Knicks, always firing coaches and trying another. But the teams sure do seem to quit or tune coaches out here pretty damn quick. I'm not saying Melo led the revolt on Woodson. He lost the team; it was clear as day. But it sure seems to be a trend that coaches get tuned out pretty quick. Some of them deserve it, others maybe not.

Name a coach that didn't deserve it.
The only one I can think of is Woody.

D'Antoni deserved it and before he got linked up with Harden people wondered why the fuq he would ever be considered for another head coaching job.

Rambis is a poor coach. Period.
Fisher was inexperienced and it showed.


Every coach that comes here ain't sh*t this has been since JVG.

Woody deserved it, ultimately

D'Antoni who knows. He's a good offensive coach who can't coach D. You'd have to figure Carmelo would love that. I guess he's the wrong kind of good offense only coach.

Carmelo and Woodson got along because they both wanted to slow the game down to a half-court offense, while D'antoni was more interested in playing at a faster pace.

It's the reason Carmelo likes to bring the ball up the court off defensive rebounds, that way he controls the pace and everyone has to wait for him.

[drekwins]

Name a coach that didn't deserve it.
The only one I can think of is Woody.

D'Antoni deserved it and before he got linked up with Harden people wondered why the fuq he would ever be considered for another head coaching job.

Rambis is a poor coach. Period.
Fisher was inexperienced and it showed.


Every coach that comes here ain't sh*t this has been since JVG.

Woody deserved it, ultimately

D'Antoni who knows. He's a good offensive coach who can't coach D. You'd have to figure Carmelo would love that. I guess he's the wrong kind of good offense only coach.

Carmelo and Woodson got along because they both wanted to slow the game down to a half-court offense, while D'antoni was more interested in playing at a faster pace.

It's the reason Carmelo likes to bring the ball up the court off defensive rebounds, that way he controls the pace and everyone has to wait for him.

Also, D'Antoni's offense has 2 key players surrounded by 3 shooters. He has the PG (Nash, Harden) and the Roll/Pop/Finish guy (Amar'e). The rest of the players are supposed to stand at the 3 point line for spacing. They are not to cut, as Landry Fields found out. They are simply to keep the defense honest and make shots when the defense overplays. Melo did not fit in with either one of the key roles. He didn't fit as the roll guy because he's not a great finisher in the paint. He couldn't play the Harden role because he's not quick enough and not an exceptional dribbler/creator.

The offense simply wasn't one in which Melo could succeed. Pau didn't fit in this scheme either. If you remember, he was forced to sit at the corner 3 point line when Howard was the roll guy.

What I find interesting is that Rose and KP might actually have been decent in his offense. Right now, KP could play either the roll or the spacing guy. Rose's penetration would really be flaunted. Lee is also perfect for that offense. We have more pieces now than we did then.

[JBreezeNY]

Name a coach that didn't deserve it.
The only one I can think of is Woody.

D'Antoni deserved it and before he got linked up with Harden people wondered why the fuq he would ever be considered for another head coaching job.

Rambis is a poor coach. Period.
Fisher was inexperienced and it showed.


Every coach that comes here ain't sh*t this has been since JVG.

Woody deserved it, ultimately

D'Antoni who knows. He's a good offensive coach who can't coach D. You'd have to figure Carmelo would love that. I guess he's the wrong kind of good offense only coach.

Carmelo and Woodson got along because they both wanted to slow the game down to a half-court offense, while D'antoni was more interested in playing at a faster pace.

It's the reason Carmelo likes to bring the ball up the court off defensive rebounds, that way he controls the pace and everyone has to wait for him.

That's not the whole truth.

Pringles also wanted to force him to be a point forward while making him a catch & shoot player sticking him in the corner.

Melo has played fast tempo dating back to his days in Denver and he actually excelled at it.

What Pringles and the GM should've done was get players that accommodated to Melo's strengths which could've put Melo somewhat in the role Harden has now with the Rockets.

[Greenie]

This revisionist history about the pre-Melo trade Knicks under D'Antoni is the most skewed/inaccurate retelling thing by people on this board. We were literally pretty much in the same spot we are now back then with STAT playing out of his skull to drag us to an 8 seed... Yeah I wonder how that would have turned out... give me an effin break with the D'Antoni crap and how Melo "ruined" that.. People will twist anything to be right about Melo. It would be a cool psychology experiment to see what leads people to do that...

Were we? I seem to remember we had young potential coming up the ranks that were still learning the system, and we had cap flexibility for free agency as well.

This is not a bash on the Melo trade, but saying we were in the same spot as an organization isn't accurate. Record wise, sure... Flexibility wise, not even close.

Wrong.
Gallo had 1 year left and Wilson was expiring. Decisions were made...

We had traded away Hill along with a pick I believe trying to clear space for LePosse.

[dakomish23]

We never had to eat our words when Melo was "killing it" because not everyone agrees that he has ever been a proper # 1 option. You can hero worship his glory days, but not everybody was his lap dog falling all over themselves to applaud his low efficiency, me-first style of play

Melo has the heart of a mouse, not a champion. He could never lead a team to glory. He thinks he's an alpha, but he is just a chucker with a false sense of entitlement

So nobody ever had to eat a single word spoken in criticism about Melo because some of us have always been right that you cannot build a team around Melo. The guy can be added to a team with other alphas if he would fall into line, but any team that is constructed around this diva is dooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeedddddddddd to failure

And enough of us have been right about this all along

Bon Appetit!

Your back again? Can I repsond or are you going to request for moderator intervention?

The fact is you actually sat there and took it this year after you went on another tirade when Melo played poorly, only to sit quietly and not say a peep as he went god mode against ATL. I don't even need to address past years where he alone came to play every night as the roster around him withered and died.

There are folks who want to see a rebuild because that's what they feel is best for the Knicks. Even then, they support the W's and cope with the losses.

Then there's folks like you. Who only show up after losses to thump your chest about how much Melo sucks.

Like I've been saying, there are fans ready for a rebuild. Then there are fans like you and a few others who are strictly here for Melo failure.

I'm sorry you don't live in a world where putting a scrappy roster around a top player will get you far. I'm sorry you don't have the guts to take the good times with the bad. I'm sorry your definition of fandom is finding a scapegoat.

To clarify, I'm not sorry for you. Im sorry for myself and others that have to deal with you and your soapbox squadron instead of being able to talk hoops on a forum with fellow miserable Knicks fans.

I'm harsh in my critiques, but I'm actually nice to everyone except liars and hostile nut jobs like you whose whole life force is fueled by making up stories about "agendas"

You are the absolute King of Mischaracterization who says things like the bold above even when it is the opposite of the truth

Nobody cares what you have to say. I've alienated plenty because I stick up for myself when the majority doesn't side with me, but you on the other hand are a special breed of stupid that only other low IQ types can actually respect.

You're both a nut job and a liar who fabricates daily fictions about how your opponents conduct themselves.

You and a couple like you have done your very best to dominate and control this board this season so up yours.

Ya happy now you flipping agenda troll?

Low IQ?

I have a high enough IQ to realize you skirted passed the ATL comment because no matter how much you type, you can't change facts.

You say insults while I say facts. And that's the difference between us

[CJackson]

Your back again? Can I repsond or are you going to request for moderator intervention?

The fact is you actually sat there and took it this year after you went on another tirade when Melo played poorly, only to sit quietly and not say a peep as he went god mode against ATL. I don't even need to address past years where he alone came to play every night as the roster around him withered and died.

There are folks who want to see a rebuild because that's what they feel is best for the Knicks. Even then, they support the W's and cope with the losses.

Then there's folks like you. Who only show up after losses to thump your chest about how much Melo sucks.

Like I've been saying, there are fans ready for a rebuild. Then there are fans like you and a few others who are strictly here for Melo failure.

I'm sorry you don't live in a world where putting a scrappy roster around a top player will get you far. I'm sorry you don't have the guts to take the good times with the bad. I'm sorry your definition of fandom is finding a scapegoat.

To clarify, I'm not sorry for you. Im sorry for myself and others that have to deal with you and your soapbox squadron instead of being able to talk hoops on a forum with fellow miserable Knicks fans.

I'm harsh in my critiques, but I'm actually nice to everyone except liars and hostile nut jobs like you whose whole life force is fueled by making up stories about "agendas"

You are the absolute King of Mischaracterization who says things like the bold above even when it is the opposite of the truth

Nobody cares what you have to say. I've alienated plenty because I stick up for myself when the majority doesn't side with me, but you on the other hand are a special breed of stupid that only other low IQ types can actually respect.

You're both a nut job and a liar who fabricates daily fictions about how your opponents conduct themselves.

You and a couple like you have done your very best to dominate and control this board this season so up yours.

Ya happy now you flipping agenda troll?

Low IQ?

I have a high enough IQ to realize you skirted passed the ATL comment because no matter how much you type, you can't change facts.

You say insults while I say facts. And that's the difference between us

A mod just asked us to back off. Get a clue

[Jay10]

Woody deserved it, ultimately

D'Antoni who knows. He's a good offensive coach who can't coach D. You'd have to figure Carmelo would love that. I guess he's the wrong kind of good offense only coach.

Carmelo and Woodson got along because they both wanted to slow the game down to a half-court offense, while D'antoni was more interested in playing at a faster pace.

It's the reason Carmelo likes to bring the ball up the court off defensive rebounds, that way he controls the pace and everyone has to wait for him.

That's not the whole truth.

Pringles also wanted to force him to be a point forward while making him a catch & shoot player sticking him in the corner.

Melo has played fast tempo dating back to his days in Denver and he actually excelled at it.

What Pringles and the GM should've done was get players that accommodated to Melo's strengths which could've put Melo somewhat in the role Harden has now with the Rockets.

That's when the team has been successful this season, when his points come off catch and shoot attempts.

[KnickFan33]

This revisionist history about the pre-Melo trade Knicks under D'Antoni is the most skewed/inaccurate retelling thing by people on this board. We were literally pretty much in the same spot we are now back then with STAT playing out of his skull to drag us to an 8 seed... Yeah I wonder how that would have turned out... give me an effin break with the D'Antoni crap and how Melo "ruined" that.. People will twist anything to be right about Melo. It would be a cool psychology experiment to see what leads people to do that...

Were we? I seem to remember we had young potential coming up the ranks that were still learning the system, and we had cap flexibility for free agency as well.

This is not a bash on the Melo trade, but saying we were in the same spot as an organization isn't accurate. Record wise, sure... Flexibility wise, not even close.

Wrong.
Gallo had 1 year left and Wilson was expiring. Decisions were made...

We had traded away Hill along with a pick I believe trying to clear space for LePosse.

I'm not denying it. What I was saying is that we still had flexibility. Sure we had to choose one and could have signed Melo straight up in the off-season, but that was a good situation to be in. It's definitely a much better situation than we are in currently.

[drekwins]

Woody deserved it, ultimately

D'Antoni who knows. He's a good offensive coach who can't coach D. You'd have to figure Carmelo would love that. I guess he's the wrong kind of good offense only coach.

Carmelo and Woodson got along because they both wanted to slow the game down to a half-court offense, while D'antoni was more interested in playing at a faster pace.

It's the reason Carmelo likes to bring the ball up the court off defensive rebounds, that way he controls the pace and everyone has to wait for him.

That's not the whole truth.

Pringles also wanted to force him to be a point forward while making him a catch & shoot player sticking him in the corner.

Melo has played fast tempo dating back to his days in Denver and he actually excelled at it.

What Pringles and the GM should've done was get players that accommodated to Melo's strengths which could've put Melo somewhat in the role Harden has now with the Rockets.

Melo is simply not quick enough or have enough handles to play the Nash/Harden role. He also can't finish well enough in the paint to play the Amar'e role. He was not a fit for either key positions in his offense.

[JBreezeNY]

Carmelo and Woodson got along because they both wanted to slow the game down to a half-court offense, while D'antoni was more interested in playing at a faster pace.

It's the reason Carmelo likes to bring the ball up the court off defensive rebounds, that way he controls the pace and everyone has to wait for him.

That's not the whole truth.

Pringles also wanted to force him to be a point forward while making him a catch & shoot player sticking him in the corner.

Melo has played fast tempo dating back to his days in Denver and he actually excelled at it.

What Pringles and the GM should've done was get players that accommodated to Melo's strengths which could've put Melo somewhat in the role Harden has now with the Rockets.

That's when the team has been successful this season, when his points come off catch and shoot attempts.

And that's because he's declined to the point in his career where catch & shooting is his best option.

6 years ago that's not the case.

I mean seriously do I have to sit down & explain that Melo from 6 years ago was a lot more talented than Melo this season?

[JBreezeNY]

Carmelo and Woodson got along because they both wanted to slow the game down to a half-court offense, while D'antoni was more interested in playing at a faster pace.

It's the reason Carmelo likes to bring the ball up the court off defensive rebounds, that way he controls the pace and everyone has to wait for him.

That's not the whole truth.

Pringles also wanted to force him to be a point forward while making him a catch & shoot player sticking him in the corner.

Melo has played fast tempo dating back to his days in Denver and he actually excelled at it.

What Pringles and the GM should've done was get players that accommodated to Melo's strengths which could've put Melo somewhat in the role Harden has now with the Rockets.

Melo is simply not quick enough or have enough handles to play the Nash/Harden role. He also can't finish well enough in the paint to play the Amar'e role. He was not a fit for either key positions in his offense.

Because he isn't as quick as Nash or Harden and not as great a finisher as Amare doesn't mean he's incapable of playing in Pringles offense.

The man is going to end his career as a top 10/15 scorer of all time and won a scoring title in 2012. He's a phenomenal passer & has great bball IQ when he has the players around him.

You're telling me that if you tweak the offense enough he couldn't fit?

This is the problem I have when topics like this get started because there becomes a lack of context and everything is black & white, no in between.

[Johnny Hoops]

Same ole Melo, but he drops 40 tomorrow and everybody loves him again.

Count me out -- I was just as disgusted watching him chuck for +60 against a weak ass Hornets team a few years ago as I will be to watch him chuck for 20, 30 or 40 at any point in the future.

Just want him gone -- no love here -- no hero worship because a guy chucks up 9 for 28 on a way to a big scoring night.

how the hell did u not enjoy him dropping 62? cmon now

That just not how I get my b-ball thrills.

I'm a KP fan but I would NOT be comfortable watching him going out of his way to search for shots/points in order to chase some meaningless scoring #s --- again it's just not how I think the game should be played.

[Johnny Hoops]

Same ole Melo, but he drops 40 tomorrow and everybody loves him again.

Count me out -- I was just as disgusted watching him chuck for +60 against a weak ass Hornets team a few years ago as I will be to watch him chuck for 20, 30 or 40 at any point in the future.

Just want him gone -- no love here -- no hero worship because a guy chucks up 9 for 28 on a way to a big scoring night.

Lolololololol

The level of dislike you have for Melo is

What kind of person doesn't like a game where someone lights it up for 60.

You must be a real joy to be with at the Rucker or Dyckman.

What legit NBA fan gives a **** about **** AND1 ball played at Rucker or Dyckman --- is that really supposed to hurt my feelings? WTF????? LOL.....very good.

[Johnny Hoops]

You wanna know why? Because they'd rather have it look pretty. And nothing pretty about Melo killing a guy one on one nonstop. He can't do it as much anymore so they call him out on it now. Before they had no choice but to eat their words because he was unstoppable

We never had to eat our words when Melo was "killing it" because not everyone agrees that he has ever been a proper # 1 option. You can hero worship his glory days, but not everybody was his lap dog falling all over themselves to applaud his low efficiency, me-first style of play

Melo has the heart of a mouse, not a champion. He could never lead a team to glory. He thinks he's an alpha, but he is just a chucker with a false sense of entitlement

So nobody ever had to eat a single word spoken in criticism about Melo because some of us have always been right that you cannot build a team around Melo. The guy can be added to a team with other alphas if he would fall into line, but any team that is constructed around this diva is dooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeedddddddddd to failure

And enough of us have been right about this all along

Bon Appetit!

Your back again? Can I repsond or are you going to request for moderator intervention?

The fact is you actually sat there and took it this year after you went on another tirade when Melo played poorly, only to sit quietly and not say a peep as he went god mode against ATL. I don't even need to address past years where he alone came to play every night as the roster around him withered and died.

There are folks who want to see a rebuild because that's what they feel is best for the Knicks. Even then, they support the W's and cope with the losses.

Then there's folks like you. Who only show up after losses to thump your chest about how much Melo sucks.

Like I've been saying, there are fans ready for a rebuild. Then there are fans like you and a few others who are strictly here for Melo failure.

I'm sorry you don't live in a world where putting a scrappy roster around a top player will get you far. I'm sorry you don't have the guts to take the good times with the bad. I'm sorry your definition of fandom is finding a scapegoat.

To clarify, I'm not sorry for you. Im sorry for myself and others that have to deal with you and your soapbox squadron instead of being able to talk hoops on a forum with fellow miserable Knicks fans.

GOD MODE --- again can't take you serious. News flash only mode Melo is in is WASHED UP MODE.

[CJackson]

That's not the whole truth.

Pringles also wanted to force him to be a point forward while making him a catch & shoot player sticking him in the corner.

Melo has played fast tempo dating back to his days in Denver and he actually excelled at it.

What Pringles and the GM should've done was get players that accommodated to Melo's strengths which could've put Melo somewhat in the role Harden has now with the Rockets.

Melo is simply not quick enough or have enough handles to play the Nash/Harden role. He also can't finish well enough in the paint to play the Amar'e role. He was not a fit for either key positions in his offense.

Because he isn't as quick as Nash or Harden and not as great a finisher as Amare doesn't mean he's incapable of playing in Pringles offense.

The man is going to end his career as a top 10/15 scorer of all time and won a scoring title in 2012. He's a phenomenal passer & has great bball IQ when he has the players around him.

You're telling me that if you tweak the offense enough he couldn't fit?

This is the problem I have when topics like this get started because there becomes a lack of context and everything is black & white, no in between.

Tweaking the offense is hardly the issue. Melo will always go rogue and blow off his teammates.

Not sure where you get this notion that he has a great ball IQ. And he has to be in the mood to use his passing talents. It is not consistently so.

Those talents all too often are canceled out by his poor shot selection and low efficiency.

Talented? Yes.
High IQ. No.

[drekwins]

Count me out -- I was just as disgusted watching him chuck for +60 against a weak ass Hornets team a few years ago as I will be to watch him chuck for 20, 30 or 40 at any point in the future.

Just want him gone -- no love here -- no hero worship because a guy chucks up 9 for 28 on a way to a big scoring night.

Lolololololol

The level of dislike you have for Melo is

What kind of person doesn't like a game where someone lights it up for 60.

You must be a real joy to be with at the Rucker or Dyckman.

What legit NBA fan gives a **** about **** AND1 ball played at Rucker or Dyckman --- is that really supposed to hurt my feelings? WTF????? LOL.....very good.

I don't think he's wrong at all. Around NBA, Melo is not seen as a star in any way to teams that gameplan against him. They see him as controllable and inefficient. They want him to have the ball in his hands.

[CJackson]

Lolololololol

The level of dislike you have for Melo is

What kind of person doesn't like a game where someone lights it up for 60.

You must be a real joy to be with at the Rucker or Dyckman.

What legit NBA fan gives a **** about **** AND1 ball played at Rucker or Dyckman --- is that really supposed to hurt my feelings? WTF????? LOL.....very good.

I don't think he's wrong at all. Around NBA, Melo is not seen as a star in any way to teams that gameplan against him. They see him as controllable and inefficient. They want him to have the ball in his hands.

PRECISELY

Defending the Knicks in the last minute of the game has been a dream come true for opposing defenses this past decade

[JBreezeNY]

Count me out -- I was just as disgusted watching him chuck for +60 against a weak ass Hornets team a few years ago as I will be to watch him chuck for 20, 30 or 40 at any point in the future.

Just want him gone -- no love here -- no hero worship because a guy chucks up 9 for 28 on a way to a big scoring night.

Lolololololol

The level of dislike you have for Melo is

What kind of person doesn't like a game where someone lights it up for 60.

You must be a real joy to be with at the Rucker or Dyckman.

What legit NBA fan gives a **** about **** AND1 ball played at Rucker or Dyckman --- is that really supposed to hurt my feelings? WTF????? LOL.....very good.

The context clown is 50/60 point games are a staple of BASKETBALL.

Meaning outside of the NBA, games where players have high individual scoring games are regular so if you watch an NBA game and someone goes off for 62 it's not a big deal.

You bitching & moaning about being disgusted by a 62 point game where Melo exploited a matchup hence him going after a hot hand and leading his team to a win in the process means you would bitch & moan at a Rucker game because you're disgusted at players routinely going off for 50/60.

Keep up.

[CJackson]

You guys been watching the same thing loop over and over for years now. You know what comes next. A run of good play that makes all this go away. Then another bad stretch that reminds us why we wanted to blow it up. Then another run of good play to close out the year that gives us just enough wins to miss the player we really wanted in the draft by 1-3 draft slots.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Is that Bill's posse?

[Johnny Hoops]

You must be a real joy to be with at the Rucker or Dyckman.

Actually, that would have been Melo's ideal home. He actually is Rucker's champion material, but in the NBA he is basically a stat-padder

Phil has top scouts scouring Rucker /Dyckman for next KP.