Magic PG: So Let Me Get This Straight...

[drekwins]

Melo is simply not quick enough or have enough handles to play the Nash/Harden role. He also can't finish well enough in the paint to play the Amar'e role. He was not a fit for either key positions in his offense.

Because he isn't as quick as Nash or Harden and not as great a finisher as Amare doesn't mean he's incapable of playing in Pringles offense.

The man is going to end his career as a top 10/15 scorer of all time and won a scoring title in 2012. He's a phenomenal passer & has great bball IQ when he has the players around him.

You're telling me that if you tweak the offense enough he couldn't fit?

This is the problem I have when topics like this get started because there becomes a lack of context and everything is black & white, no in between.

Tweaking the offense is hardly the issue. Melo will always go rogue and blow off his teammates.

Not sure where you get this notion that he has a great ball IQ. And he has to be in the mood to use his passing talents. It is not consistently so.

Those talents all too often are canceled out by his poor shot selection and low efficiency.

Talented? Yes.
High IQ. No.

Exactly. Melo's FG% is worse than the 30th worst shooting team in the NBA. Take a moment to let that sink in. His best attribute is shooting... He does nothing else... let him go already

[Johnny Hoops]

You must be a real joy to be with at the Rucker or Dyckman.

Actually, that would have been Melo's ideal home. He actually is Rucker's champion material, but in the NBA he is basically a stat-padder

That's nice to know, what does any of that have to do with being disgusted by a 60 point game that was actually efficient tho?

And that clown Johnny didn't realize we were worse than the Hornets at that time period

Aren't we always worse than most teams with Me7o leading the squad.

You know I think your Rucker post really does highlight what we are dealing with in regard to the pro Melo fan base. It's a Dan base that has no clue about real basketball and how winning teams/cultures develop -- it's a bunch of kids who grew up watching AND1 tournaments.

[JBreezeNY]

Melo is simply not quick enough or have enough handles to play the Nash/Harden role. He also can't finish well enough in the paint to play the Amar'e role. He was not a fit for either key positions in his offense.

Because he isn't as quick as Nash or Harden and not as great a finisher as Amare doesn't mean he's incapable of playing in Pringles offense.

The man is going to end his career as a top 10/15 scorer of all time and won a scoring title in 2012. He's a phenomenal passer & has great bball IQ when he has the players around him.

You're telling me that if you tweak the offense enough he couldn't fit?

This is the problem I have when topics like this get started because there becomes a lack of context and everything is black & white, no in between.

Tweaking the offense is hardly the issue. Melo will always go rogue and blow off his teammates.

Not sure where you get this notion that he has a great ball IQ. And he has to be in the mood to use his passing talents. It is not consistently so.

Those talents all too often are canceled out by his poor shot selection and low efficiency.

Talented? Yes.
High IQ. No.

That sounds like every star scorer in the history of the NBA, scorers who are known for scoring, blow off their teammates. Melo is not the first, second nor last player to this.

Melo is an inconsistent player because he's flawed but he does have great bball IQ hidden between the heat checks & bone headed decisions. He has played great defense, made the right pass, taken smart shots, all consistently.

[Johnny Hoops]

We never had to eat our words when Melo was "killing it" because not everyone agrees that he has ever been a proper # 1 option. You can hero worship his glory days, but not everybody was his lap dog falling all over themselves to applaud his low efficiency, me-first style of play

Melo has the heart of a mouse, not a champion. He could never lead a team to glory. He thinks he's an alpha, but he is just a chucker with a false sense of entitlement

So nobody ever had to eat a single word spoken in criticism about Melo because some of us have always been right that you cannot build a team around Melo. The guy can be added to a team with other alphas if he would fall into line, but any team that is constructed around this diva is dooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeedddddddddd to failure

And enough of us have been right about this all along

Bon Appetit!

Your back again? Can I repsond or are you going to request for moderator intervention?

The fact is you actually sat there and took it this year after you went on another tirade when Melo played poorly, only to sit quietly and not say a peep as he went god mode against ATL. I don't even need to address past years where he alone came to play every night as the roster around him withered and died.

There are folks who want to see a rebuild because that's what they feel is best for the Knicks. Even then, they support the W's and cope with the losses.

Then there's folks like you. Who only show up after losses to thump your chest about how much Melo sucks.

Like I've been saying, there are fans ready for a rebuild. Then there are fans like you and a few others who are strictly here for Melo failure.

I'm sorry you don't live in a world where putting a scrappy roster around a top player will get you far. I'm sorry you don't have the guts to take the good times with the bad. I'm sorry your definition of fandom is finding a scapegoat.

To clarify, I'm not sorry for you. Im sorry for myself and others that have to deal with you and your soapbox squadron instead of being able to talk hoops on a forum with fellow miserable Knicks fans.

call his bich ass out. ruining the board with his dumb essays about melo every damn day.

LOL --- dying that long slow Me7o death.

[Johnny Hoops]

Count me out -- I was just as disgusted watching him chuck for +60 against a weak ass Hornets team a few years ago as I will be to watch him chuck for 20, 30 or 40 at any point in the future.

Just want him gone -- no love here -- no hero worship because a guy chucks up 9 for 28 on a way to a big scoring night.

Lolololololol

The level of dislike you have for Melo is

What kind of person doesn't like a game where someone lights it up for 60.

You must be a real joy to be with at the Rucker or Dyckman.

If I want to go and enjoy players struttin' their stuff and lighting it up, then I'll go to Rucker or Dyckman. BUT WHEN I WATCH THE FCKING KNICKS, I WANT TO FCKING WIN!!!!!!! And I don't care how pretty it looks either. Did you forget the 80s-90s Knicks?

Other than that, I hope you're having a Breezey day.

BINGO WINGO but this is the hoops mentality of many on this board -- style over substance.

[drekwins]

Because he isn't as quick as Nash or Harden and not as great a finisher as Amare doesn't mean he's incapable of playing in Pringles offense.

The man is going to end his career as a top 10/15 scorer of all time and won a scoring title in 2012. He's a phenomenal passer & has great bball IQ when he has the players around him.

You're telling me that if you tweak the offense enough he couldn't fit?

This is the problem I have when topics like this get started because there becomes a lack of context and everything is black & white, no in between.

Tweaking the offense is hardly the issue. Melo will always go rogue and blow off his teammates.

Not sure where you get this notion that he has a great ball IQ. And he has to be in the mood to use his passing talents. It is not consistently so.

Those talents all too often are canceled out by his poor shot selection and low efficiency.

Talented? Yes.
High IQ. No.

That sounds like every star scorer in the history of the NBA, scorers who are known for scoring, blow off their teammates. Melo is not the first, second nor last player to this.

Melo is an inconsistent player because he's flawed but he does have great bball IQ hidden between the heat checks & bone headed decisions. He has played great defense, made the right pass, taken smart shots, all consistently.

Melo is NOT a star scorer anymore... That's not hate. He really just isn't that good at it. Sure, he makes some tough shots. That doesn't make him great. Great scorers get easy shots at will or make long/tough shots look easy. Melo makes tough shots but they look tough. The defense is never mad or frustrated because they know he did exactly what they tried to get him to do.

[CJackson]

Because he isn't as quick as Nash or Harden and not as great a finisher as Amare doesn't mean he's incapable of playing in Pringles offense.

The man is going to end his career as a top 10/15 scorer of all time and won a scoring title in 2012. He's a phenomenal passer & has great bball IQ when he has the players around him.

You're telling me that if you tweak the offense enough he couldn't fit?

This is the problem I have when topics like this get started because there becomes a lack of context and everything is black & white, no in between.

Tweaking the offense is hardly the issue. Melo will always go rogue and blow off his teammates.

Not sure where you get this notion that he has a great ball IQ. And he has to be in the mood to use his passing talents. It is not consistently so.

Those talents all too often are canceled out by his poor shot selection and low efficiency.

Talented? Yes.
High IQ. No.

That sounds like every star scorer in the history of the NBA, scorers who are known for scoring, blow off their teammates. Melo is not the first, second nor last player to this.

Melo is an inconsistent player because he's flawed but he does have great bball IQ hidden between the heat checks & bone headed decisions. He has played great defense, made the right pass, taken smart shots, all consistently.

It is mostly hidden

All consistently? Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman

[JBreezeNY]

Actually, that would have been Melo's ideal home. He actually is Rucker's champion material, but in the NBA he is basically a stat-padder

That's nice to know, what does any of that have to do with being disgusted by a 60 point game that was actually efficient tho?

And that clown Johnny didn't realize we were worse than the Hornets at that time period

Aren't we always worse than most teams with Me7o leading the squad.

You know I think your Rucker post really does highlight what we are dealing with in regard to the pro Melo fan base. It's a Dan base that has no clue about real basketball and how winning teams/cultures develop -- it's a bunch of kids who grew up watching AND1 tournaments.

The only year we properly used Melo was the 2012 season and we won 54 games so I doubt it.

The fact you're taking my quip on the Rucker is laughable

I would question what the hell you know about winning when the Knicks haven't won anything in 40+ years but that would be giving you too much credit.

[KnickFan33]

That's nice to know, what does any of that have to do with being disgusted by a 60 point game that was actually efficient tho?

And that clown Johnny didn't realize we were worse than the Hornets at that time period

Aren't we always worse than most teams with Me7o leading the squad.

You know I think your Rucker post really does highlight what we are dealing with in regard to the pro Melo fan base. It's a Dan base that has no clue about real basketball and how winning teams/cultures develop -- it's a bunch of kids who grew up watching AND1 tournaments.

The only year we properly used Melo was the 2012 season and we won 54 games so I doubt it.

The fact you're taking my quip on the Rucker is laughable

I would question what the hell you know about winning when the Knicks haven't won anything in 40+ years but that would be giving you too much credit.

Melo deserved MVP that year for his performance. Kidd should have won coach of the year for keeping everything running smoothly.

[JBreezeNY]

Tweaking the offense is hardly the issue. Melo will always go rogue and blow off his teammates.

Not sure where you get this notion that he has a great ball IQ. And he has to be in the mood to use his passing talents. It is not consistently so.

Those talents all too often are canceled out by his poor shot selection and low efficiency.

Talented? Yes.
High IQ. No.

That sounds like every star scorer in the history of the NBA, scorers who are known for scoring, blow off their teammates. Melo is not the first, second nor last player to this.

Melo is an inconsistent player because he's flawed but he does have great bball IQ hidden between the heat checks & bone headed decisions. He has played great defense, made the right pass, taken smart shots, all consistently.

It is mostly hidden

All consistently? Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman

If you don't like Melo enough to admit that he has shown acts of brilliance with his passing, defense & decision making in the past then I dunno what to tell you.

Don't get it twisted I'm not saying he's done it for whole entire seasons at a time I'm saying during his time in Denver, the 54 win season, the 13-14 season he consistently played smart.

[JBreezeNY]

Tweaking the offense is hardly the issue. Melo will always go rogue and blow off his teammates.

Not sure where you get this notion that he has a great ball IQ. And he has to be in the mood to use his passing talents. It is not consistently so.

Those talents all too often are canceled out by his poor shot selection and low efficiency.

Talented? Yes.
High IQ. No.

That sounds like every star scorer in the history of the NBA, scorers who are known for scoring, blow off their teammates. Melo is not the first, second nor last player to this.

Melo is an inconsistent player because he's flawed but he does have great bball IQ hidden between the heat checks & bone headed decisions. He has played great defense, made the right pass, taken smart shots, all consistently.

Melo is NOT a star scorer anymore... That's not hate. He really just isn't that good at it. Sure, he makes some tough shots. That doesn't make him great. Great scorers get easy shots at will or make long/tough shots look easy. Melo makes tough shots but they look tough. The defense is never mad or frustrated because they know they did exactly what they tried to get him to do.

I don't think you're reading my post correctly.

I'm not basing my posts off of Melo today.

[Johnny Hoops]

Lolololololol

The level of dislike you have for Melo is

What kind of person doesn't like a game where someone lights it up for 60.

You must be a real joy to be with at the Rucker or Dyckman.

What legit NBA fan gives a **** about **** AND1 ball played at Rucker or Dyckman --- is that really supposed to hurt my feelings? WTF????? LOL.....very good.

The context clown is 50/60 point games are a staple of BASKETBALL.

Meaning outside of the NBA, games where players have high individual scoring games are regular so if you watch an NBA game and someone goes off for 62 it's not a big deal.

You bitching & moaning about being disgusted by a 62 point game where Melo exploited a matchup hence him going after a hot hand and leading his team to a win in the process means you would bitch & moan at a Rucker game because you're disgusted at players routinely going off for 50/60.

Keep up.

Sorry son -- can't talk hoops with Rucker boy.

[FutureKnicksGM]

It personnel.

If you move Melo off the ball and into catch and shoot situation (where Melo is still very good, and is willing to do i.e Team USA) you either need some set plays to get some good looks (which we never run) or you need a playmaker on the court (which we don't have, we have Rose who legit might have the worst vision of any 'pg' in the league).

Now melo is not a triple threat anymore,and doesn't command a double team unless he is hot, hence the results have not been as good working through Melo solely.

Stop acting like Melo isolating is stopping up from being a good team. We need a starting pg, who can create for others off the bounce badly. And maybe stop playing 4 on 5 on offense will help.

But the obviously the real problem is defensively. No Anchor in the middle to protect the rim like last year, we instead have caged animal. Everyone therefore over helps on the breakdown (with the initial perimeter defense weak af) and we get lost. Definitely can get on Melo for not leading by example. Last year he was locked in, this year nope. Some of it is definitely bad match ups on small guards, but he needs to step up the focus and intensity big time.

[JBreezeNY]

What legit NBA fan gives a **** about **** AND1 ball played at Rucker or Dyckman --- is that really supposed to hurt my feelings? WTF????? LOL.....very good.

The context clown is 50/60 point games are a staple of BASKETBALL.

Meaning outside of the NBA, games where players have high individual scoring games are regular so if you watch an NBA game and someone goes off for 62 it's not a big deal.

You bitching & moaning about being disgusted by a 62 point game where Melo exploited a matchup hence him going after a hot hand and leading his team to a win in the process means you would bitch & moan at a Rucker game because you're disgusted at players routinely going off for 50/60.

Keep up.

Sorry son -- can't talk hoops with Rucker boy.

This the type of response I expected from you, can't properly make a compelling argument, can't dispute any point, makes passive aggressive statements indirectly and runs away.

[CJackson]

That sounds like every star scorer in the history of the NBA, scorers who are known for scoring, blow off their teammates. Melo is not the first, second nor last player to this.

Melo is an inconsistent player because he's flawed but he does have great bball IQ hidden between the heat checks & bone headed decisions. He has played great defense, made the right pass, taken smart shots, all consistently.

It is mostly hidden

All consistently? Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman

If you don't like Melo enough to admit that he has shown acts of brilliance with his passing, defense & decision making in the past then I dunno what to tell you.

Don't get it twisted I'm not saying he's done it for whole entire seasons at a time I'm saying during his time in Denver, the 54 win season, the 13-14 season he consistently played smart.

Didn't twist anything. And you know full well how many times I've said "nice pass Melo" in a game thread. I know what he is capable of.

but when it comes to your assertion he has a top BB brain we'll have to disagree because we are too far apart on that to reach common ground.

but of course there has been moments of brilliance. That means jack to me. Smart to me means adjusting your game contextually, something Melo is quite dumb about IMO. And he shows little evidence of adjustment to the current context of diminished physical abilities. For every game where he does efficient catch and shoot, we have to watch many others where he wants to embarrass another star and everything goes out the window

If Melo was such a sharp basketball mind he wouldn't lose his focus for whole quarters at a time, but he does it ALL THE TIME

A smart player adjust quickly. Melo is a stick in the mud

[JBreezeNY]

It is mostly hidden

All consistently? Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman

If you don't like Melo enough to admit that he has shown acts of brilliance with his passing, defense & decision making in the past then I dunno what to tell you.

Don't get it twisted I'm not saying he's done it for whole entire seasons at a time I'm saying during his time in Denver, the 54 win season, the 13-14 season he consistently played smart.

Didn't twist anything. And you know full well how many times I've said "nice pass Melo" in a game thread. I know what he is capable of.

but when it comes to your assertion he has a top BB brain we'll have to disagree because we are too far apart on that to reach common ground.

but of course there has been moments of brilliance. That means jack to me. Smart to me means adjusting your game contextually, something Melo is quite dumb about IMO. And he shows little evidence of adjustment to the current context of diminished physical abilities. For every game where he does efficient catch and shoot, we have to watch many others where he wants to embarrass another star and everything goes out the window

If Melo was such a sharp basketball mind he wouldn't lose his focus for whole quarters at a time, but he does it ALL THE TIME

A smart player adjust quickly. Melo is a stick in the mud

I can agree with this.

[whocares1]

Nah he drops a non chucking efficient 40 in a win and everybody will love him again. This Melo drama/ Fire the coach/ Fire the GM/ Tank the season...blah blah blah happens every year. It's getting old.

Team goes on a win streak however, and KP is suddenly a superstar (which he is by far not), Melo is a savior, Rose is back, and they all should make the all star team, make a run at Cleveland blah blah blah.

So are you saying that he's going to drop 40 tomorrow or is that strictly hypothetical?

Also no that's not what would happen. Melo fans will say "I never doubted the boy!!" Melo haters will simply not post, and the logical Knicks fan will say "Crap. Hopefully we lose the next 10 in a row."

I don't know about the logical knick fan wanting us to lose part. We should wanna win every game. We should be rooting for Melo and whoever else so long as they're on this team. I don't like what I see, and I'm hoping something happens to change the way we've been playing lately, but my original point was hypothetical. This board is up and down man. Love Melo one day, hate him the next. So yea, if we go on a crazy streak and guys start playing really well, then you'll be hearing about how we can pull an upset against Cleveland in the ECF from some of the same guys who have "given up"

The problem is that the Knicks fans that want to win and blindly support the team don't look at the team's trajectory. The Knicks don't look close to contending anytime soon. It is absolutely a necessity to start making moves NOW that will lead to a brighter future.

Do you want to see the Knicks win a championship? Do you want to see it anytime within this decade? If you do, you'd see that this is an amazing opportunity to add a piece that might contribute to a championship team.

A lot of people will say that stars can be found at any point in the draft which is 100% true, but I want the team to have the best opportunity at picking the player they feel will help lead the Knicks to an eventual championship.

[CJackson]

If you don't like Melo enough to admit that he has shown acts of brilliance with his passing, defense & decision making in the past then I dunno what to tell you.

Don't get it twisted I'm not saying he's done it for whole entire seasons at a time I'm saying during his time in Denver, the 54 win season, the 13-14 season he consistently played smart.

Didn't twist anything. And you know full well how many times I've said "nice pass Melo" in a game thread. I know what he is capable of.

but when it comes to your assertion he has a top BB brain we'll have to disagree because we are too far apart on that to reach common ground.

but of course there has been moments of brilliance. That means jack to me. Smart to me means adjusting your game contextually, something Melo is quite dumb about IMO. And he shows little evidence of adjustment to the current context of diminished physical abilities. For every game where he does efficient catch and shoot, we have to watch many others where he wants to embarrass another star and everything goes out the window

If Melo was such a sharp basketball mind he wouldn't lose his focus for whole quarters at a time, but he does it ALL THE TIME

A smart player adjust quickly. Melo is a stick in the mud

I can agree with this.

OK then. This bitter curmudgeon wishes you a nice day

[god shammgod]

It personnel.

If you move Melo off the ball and into catch and shoot situation (where Melo is still very good, and is willing to do i.e Team USA) you either need some set plays to get some good looks (which we never run) or you need a playmaker on the court (which we don't have, we have Rose who legit might have the worst vision of any 'pg' in the league).

Now melo is not a triple threat anymore,and doesn't command a double team unless he is hot, hence the results have not been as good working through Melo solely.

Stop acting like Melo isolating is stopping up from being a good team. We need a starting pg, who can create for others off the bounce badly. And maybe stop playing 4 on 5 on offense will help.

But the obviously the real problem is defensively. No Anchor in the middle to protect the rim like last year, we instead have caged animal. Everyone therefore over helps on the breakdown (with the initial perimeter defense weak af) and we get lost. Definitely can get on Melo for not leading by example. Last year he was locked in, this year nope. Some of it is definitely bad match ups on small guards, but he needs to step up the focus and intensity big time.

while i agree with all this, it's getting late in the game. when are we gonna put all the pieces we need ?

[KnickFan33]

It personnel.

If you move Melo off the ball and into catch and shoot situation (where Melo is still very good, and is willing to do i.e Team USA) you either need some set plays to get some good looks (which we never run) or you need a playmaker on the court (which we don't have, we have Rose who legit might have the worst vision of any 'pg' in the league).

Now melo is not a triple threat anymore,and doesn't command a double team unless he is hot, hence the results have not been as good working through Melo solely.

Stop acting like Melo isolating is stopping up from being a good team. We need a starting pg, who can create for others off the bounce badly. And maybe stop playing 4 on 5 on offense will help.

But the obviously the real problem is defensively. No Anchor in the middle to protect the rim like last year, we instead have caged animal. Everyone therefore over helps on the breakdown (with the initial perimeter defense weak af) and we get lost. Definitely can get on Melo for not leading by example. Last year he was locked in, this year nope. Some of it is definitely bad match ups on small guards, but he needs to step up the focus and intensity big time.

Perhaps this should be a new thread so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.