Markelle Fultz

[Duke4life831]

I'd have Kyrie last of the 4. His defensive ability is behind the others, and he's not a true PG. My view is:

1. Fultz
2. Wall
3. DSJ
4. Kyrie

Im curious why you focus on Kyrie's lack of defense but have Fultz #1? Kyrie in his short stint in college played much better defense than what Fultz has shown. Kyrie averaged 8.8 assists per 100 possessions, Fultz 10, I don't see the huge difference there. And its not like Kyrie played off the ball or anything, he was the primary ball handler.

After watching the 3 PGs in this draft, DSJ has the more lazy defensive possessions than anyone else, but he has also shown an ability to lock down on ball handlers at a higher level than Fultz has (especially as of late). If we are talking about who puts in the least consistent effort on D its definitely DSJ.

I assume we're rating them as prospects rather than college players - my bad if that's a wrong assumption. Kyrie never had the defensive ability of the others - and he's a step or 2 below all of them athletically. Just because he had some steals doesn't make him a good defender. Imo, Fultz is clearly the better all-around prospect. If Fultz has fewer assists in 10 games, you have to look at their teammates - where there's no comparison really.

I am saying them as prospects coming out of college. Fultz has never shown to be a good defender and isn't showing to be one right now. Kyrie showed much better on ball defense in college than Fultz has so far. And if we want to talk about projection ya Fultz is thicker and has those long arms. But that doesn't always translate into being a good defender, just look a Russell so far. Also Fultz more athletic than Kyrie? He may jump a little higher but Id give Kyrie the healthy lead in just about ever other athletic check box.

[Ruzious]

Im curious why you focus on Kyrie's lack of defense but have Fultz #1? Kyrie in his short stint in college played much better defense than what Fultz has shown. Kyrie averaged 8.8 assists per 100 possessions, Fultz 10, I don't see the huge difference there. And its not like Kyrie played off the ball or anything, he was the primary ball handler.

After watching the 3 PGs in this draft, DSJ has the more lazy defensive possessions than anyone else, but he has also shown an ability to lock down on ball handlers at a higher level than Fultz has (especially as of late). If we are talking about who puts in the least consistent effort on D its definitely DSJ.

I assume we're rating them as prospects rather than college players - my bad if that's a wrong assumption. Kyrie never had the defensive ability of the others - and he's a step or 2 below all of them athletically. Just because he had some steals doesn't make him a good defender. Imo, Fultz is clearly the better all-around prospect. If Fultz has fewer assists in 10 games, you have to look at their teammates - where there's no comparison really.

I am saying them as prospects coming out of college. Fultz has never shown to be a good defender and isn't showing to be one right now. Kyrie showed much better on ball defense in college than Fultz has so far. And if we want to talk about projection ya Fultz is thicker and has those long arms. But that doesn't always translate into being a good defender, just look a Russell so far. Also Fultz more athletic than Kyrie? He may jump a little higher but Id give Kyrie the healthy lead in just about ever other athletic check box.

I can't agree with you on defense. As far as defensive ability, Fultz has everything on Kyrie, imo. Some players have good length and don't use it - like Russell, but Fultz does use it, and he's a better athlete than Kyrie. He doesn't just lead his team in steals by a very wide margin, he leads his team in blocks by 5. And he has the versatility to cover any type of guard. In the Under 18 games, he averaged 3.2 steals and by all accounts threw opposing guards off their rhythm with his D. The kid is a freak.

[Marcus]

I assume we're rating them as prospects rather than college players - my bad if that's a wrong assumption. Kyrie never had the defensive ability of the others - and he's a step or 2 below all of them athletically. Just because he had some steals doesn't make him a good defender. Imo, Fultz is clearly the better all-around prospect. If Fultz has fewer assists in 10 games, you have to look at their teammates - where there's no comparison really.

I am saying them as prospects coming out of college. Fultz has never shown to be a good defender and isn't showing to be one right now. Kyrie showed much better on ball defense in college than Fultz has so far. And if we want to talk about projection ya Fultz is thicker and has those long arms. But that doesn't always translate into being a good defender, just look a Russell so far. Also Fultz more athletic than Kyrie? He may jump a little higher but Id give Kyrie the healthy lead in just about ever other athletic check box.

I can't agree with you on defense. As far as defensive ability, Fultz has everything on Kyrie, imo. Some players have good length and don't use it - like Russell, but Fultz does use it, and he's a better athlete than Kyrie. He doesn't just lead his team in steals by a very wide margin, he leads his team in blocks by 5. And he has the versatility to cover any type of guard. In the Under 18 games, he averaged 3.2 steals and by all accounts threw opposing guards off their rhythm with his D. The kid is a freak.

I like Kelle defensively because he's a playmaker on that end but he does a lot of his work on recovery. He gets beat quite a bit because he defends upright. He won't quit on a play so that's always a plus but he does get beat moreso than he probably should.

Also the under 18 steal stats have to be taken in context. The US runs a press and overwhelms the competition more times than not. Taking advantage of bad passes and nervous teenagers who aren't on your level athletically doesn't necessarily equate to good defender.

[Duke4life831]

I am saying them as prospects coming out of college. Fultz has never shown to be a good defender and isn't showing to be one right now. Kyrie showed much better on ball defense in college than Fultz has so far. And if we want to talk about projection ya Fultz is thicker and has those long arms. But that doesn't always translate into being a good defender, just look a Russell so far. Also Fultz more athletic than Kyrie? He may jump a little higher but Id give Kyrie the healthy lead in just about ever other athletic check box.

I can't agree with you on defense. As far as defensive ability, Fultz has everything on Kyrie, imo. Some players have good length and don't use it - like Russell, but Fultz does use it, and he's a better athlete than Kyrie. He doesn't just lead his team in steals by a very wide margin, he leads his team in blocks by 5. And he has the versatility to cover any type of guard. In the Under 18 games, he averaged 3.2 steals and by all accounts threw opposing guards off their rhythm with his D. The kid is a freak.

I like Kelle defensively because he's a playmaker on that end but he does a lot of his work on recovery. He gets beat quite a bit because he defends upright. He won't quit on a play so that's always a plus but he does get beat moreso than he probably should.

Also the under 18 steal stats have to be taken in context. The US runs a press and overwhelms the competition more times than not. Taking advantage of bad passes and nervous teenagers who aren't on your level athletically doesn't necessarily equate to good defender.

I agree he makes plays defensively. But to me steals and especially blocks for a guard are like interceptions for a DB. Its great you can make a big splash play but what do you do the majority of the plays. Like for Fultz its great he gets about 3 stls/blks a game, thats great I'm not trying to downplay that. What I question is how does he play defense the rest of the 60-70 possessions, I think he gets blown by a lot, I think hes a stiff defender, like you said he does defend upright.

I just don't see a great defender right now and I don't see great potential defensively either, I think many people just assume hes got great defensive potential because his wingspan and he racks up steals. I think he is going to be at his best defending 2s in the NBA. I like his hustle, his strength and his size allows for versatility. I just see a stiff upright defender.

[Marcus]

I can't agree with you on defense. As far as defensive ability, Fultz has everything on Kyrie, imo. Some players have good length and don't use it - like Russell, but Fultz does use it, and he's a better athlete than Kyrie. He doesn't just lead his team in steals by a very wide margin, he leads his team in blocks by 5. And he has the versatility to cover any type of guard. In the Under 18 games, he averaged 3.2 steals and by all accounts threw opposing guards off their rhythm with his D. The kid is a freak.

I like Kelle defensively because he's a playmaker on that end but he does a lot of his work on recovery. He gets beat quite a bit because he defends upright. He won't quit on a play so that's always a plus but he does get beat moreso than he probably should.

Also the under 18 steal stats have to be taken in context. The US runs a press and overwhelms the competition more times than not. Taking advantage of bad passes and nervous teenagers who aren't on your level athletically doesn't necessarily equate to good defender.

I agree he makes plays defensively. But to me steals and especially blocks for a guard are like interceptions for a DB. Its great you can make a big splash play but what do you do the majority of the plays. Like for Fultz its great he gets about 3 stls/blks a game, thats great I'm not trying to downplay that. What I question is how does he play defense the rest of the 60-70 possessions, I think he gets blown by a lot, I think hes a stiff defender, like you said he does defend upright.

I just don't see a great defender right now and I don't see great potential defensively either, I think many people just assume hes got great defensive potential because his wingspan and he racks up steals. I think he is going to be at his best defending 2s in the NBA. I like his hustle, his strength and his size allows for versatility. I just see a stiff upright defender.

I got him 4th among the defensive prospects with the ability to take DSJ's spot at third depending on how he develops on ball and what DSJ decides to do at the next level.

I think Fox is the best defender of the bunch without question and I think Lonzo is vastly underrated around here. Kid sits down in a stance, slides his feet well, reads picks and nullifies them (since he won't fight through them lol), he's a playmaker on that end, always around the ball, and gets his defensive numbers both on and off ball. I especially like his on-ball shot blocks which is hard enough to do for a big let alone a PG.

[Duke4life831]

I like Kelle defensively because he's a playmaker on that end but he does a lot of his work on recovery. He gets beat quite a bit because he defends upright. He won't quit on a play so that's always a plus but he does get beat moreso than he probably should.

Also the under 18 steal stats have to be taken in context. The US runs a press and overwhelms the competition more times than not. Taking advantage of bad passes and nervous teenagers who aren't on your level athletically doesn't necessarily equate to good defender.

I agree he makes plays defensively. But to me steals and especially blocks for a guard are like interceptions for a DB. Its great you can make a big splash play but what do you do the majority of the plays. Like for Fultz its great he gets about 3 stls/blks a game, thats great I'm not trying to downplay that. What I question is how does he play defense the rest of the 60-70 possessions, I think he gets blown by a lot, I think hes a stiff defender, like you said he does defend upright.

I just don't see a great defender right now and I don't see great potential defensively either, I think many people just assume hes got great defensive potential because his wingspan and he racks up steals. I think he is going to be at his best defending 2s in the NBA. I like his hustle, his strength and his size allows for versatility. I just see a stiff upright defender.

I got him 4th among the defensive prospects with the ability to take DSJ's spot at third depending on how he develops on ball and what DSJ decides to do at the next level.

I think Fox is the best defender of the bunch without question and I think Lonzo is vastly underrated around here. Kid sits down in a stance, slides his feet well, reads picks and nullifies them (since he won't fight through them lol), he's a playmaker on that end, always around the ball, and gets his defensive numbers both on and off ball. I especially like his on-ball shot blocks which is hard enough to do for a big let alone a PG.

If I were to rank them it would go

1. Fox
.
.
.
2. Ball
3. DSJ
4. Fultz

I could've gone all day with the dots after Fox. I think the gap is huge, the dude is one of the best defensive prospects I've seen at the PG position. If he had any kind of half court offensive skill set he would be up there with the other 3 guys as a top tier prospect. His half court offensive game is just so weak. Bad high handles, can't really go off hand, horrible jumper and not the greatest finisher at the rim. But that speed and defense though.

Ball I think is just a really solid smart defender, add his good size and good athleticism, its a good combination. DSJ like stated before I think hes Westbrook defensively but with a higher IQ on that side.

[Marcus]

I agree he makes plays defensively. But to me steals and especially blocks for a guard are like interceptions for a DB. Its great you can make a big splash play but what do you do the majority of the plays. Like for Fultz its great he gets about 3 stls/blks a game, thats great I'm not trying to downplay that. What I question is how does he play defense the rest of the 60-70 possessions, I think he gets blown by a lot, I think hes a stiff defender, like you said he does defend upright.

I just don't see a great defender right now and I don't see great potential defensively either, I think many people just assume hes got great defensive potential because his wingspan and he racks up steals. I think he is going to be at his best defending 2s in the NBA. I like his hustle, his strength and his size allows for versatility. I just see a stiff upright defender.

I got him 4th among the defensive prospects with the ability to take DSJ's spot at third depending on how he develops on ball and what DSJ decides to do at the next level.

I think Fox is the best defender of the bunch without question and I think Lonzo is vastly underrated around here. Kid sits down in a stance, slides his feet well, reads picks and nullifies them (since he won't fight through them lol), he's a playmaker on that end, always around the ball, and gets his defensive numbers both on and off ball. I especially like his on-ball shot blocks which is hard enough to do for a big let alone a PG.

If I were to rank them it would go

1. Fox
.
.
.
2. Ball
3. DSJ
4. Fultz

I could've gone all day with the dots after Fox. I think the gap is huge, the dude is one of the best defensive prospects I've seen at the PG position. If he had any kind of half court offensive skill set he would be up there with the other 3 guys as a top tier prospect. His half court offensive game is just so weak. Bad high handles, can't really go off hand, horrible jumper and not the greatest finisher at the rim. But that speed and defense though.

Ball I think is just a really solid smart defender, add his good size and good athleticism, its a good combination. DSJ like stated before I think hes Westbrook defensively but with a higher IQ on that side.

oh yeah defensively Fox is in a whole other world than the other kids and my favorite part about it is he LOVES it so much. kid takes pride in making your life miserable bringing it up the court. Who the hell picks up full court in a all-star game? lol. He's the kid that is going to line up day one against OKC and say ok "I'm going to test Westbrook's gas tank tonight."

Also love the fact that he's not handsy at all. It's all position, a feint at a swipe, skinny on a pick, and quick hands when the opportunity presents itself. Ball denial is good and he's going to be one of those guys that devour your shot clock. Not something that stands out so much right now because they give them 30 seconds in college. but he's going to be able to push the 8 second count and force you to rush sets because you get into them so late in the clock. Should be a lightning rod for the defense behind him as well because if you see your ROOKIE PG working that hard on that end the rest of you better get yourselves in gear and back him up.

[Duke4life831]

oh yeah defensively Fox is in a whole other world than the other kids and my favorite part about it is he LOVES it so much. kid takes pride in making your life miserable bringing it up the court. Who the hell picks up full court in a all-star game? lol. He's the kid that is going to line up day one against OKC and say ok "I'm going to test Westbrook's gas tank tonight."

Also love the fact that he's not handsy at all. It's all position, a feint at a swipe, skinny on a pick, and quick hands when the opportunity presents itself. Ball denial is good and he's going to be one of those guys that devour your shot clock. Not something that stands out so much right now because they give them 30 seconds in college. but he's going to be able to push the 8 second count and force you to rush sets because you get into them so late in the clock. Should be a lightning rod for the defense behind him as well because if you see your ROOKIE PG working that hard on that end the rest of you better get yourselves in gear and back him up.

Fox reminds me of a PG version of like MKG/Winslow/Hollis-Jefferson. Those 3 guys were fun to watch defensively. They knew that was their game and they brought a ton of energy to that side of the ball. Those guys by themselves terrified an offense. Offenses had to make sure they kept the ball far away from these guys.

Fox is right in that category with those guys but the difference is hes a PG not a wing. Fox himself destroys an opposing offense because he automatically disrupts your PG like no other and it throws offenses off. The dude is elite of elite on defense. Love watching him just for defensive purposes and his speed on the break.

[jrob23]

Fox is going to be such a nice player it's a shame he's not quite the prospect of the other three. If we are talking defense, yeah, he's probably the best. BUT...Ntkilina is not far behind especially on ball from what I've seen. I haven't seen enough to comment on help D yet. I have seen DSJ pound the floor and absolutely smother players on ball. Then five minutes later he's barely trying to fight through a screen and going low when he's supposed to go high. I'm wondering if his effort is a reflection of his attitude about being on such a bad team. So, to me, he has the potential to be a good defender. I have NEVER seen Fultz lock a guy down like DSJ and Fox have, however, unlike DSJ, he's really good at help D and has the physicality to be a much better defender so his potential is about equal to DSJ. Ball is probably the best all around defender after Fox because of his size and BBIQ mostly. He has his lazy moments and I'm not convinced a speedy guy won't expose him. Futlz is going to be a great test for him to see what guys on the next level will potentially do. Fultz, Ball, and DSJ have the "it" factor if that means anything. Fultz probably more than any PG since Paul.

[No-Man]

Fox gets beaten quite a bit, he lacks strength in a major way, Ntilikina gets beaten sometimes due to the same reason, esp in space or against smallish and quicker guards.

Ntilikina is the best defensive prospect ahead of Fox though, his technique is better, he is constant and he really gets into peoples bodies,not only with his length, he plays really physical.

[Unbreakable99]

I'd have Kyrie last of the 4. His defensive ability is behind the others, and he's not a true PG. My view is:

1. Fultz
2. Wall
3. DSJ
4. Kyrie

Im curious why you focus on Kyrie's lack of defense but have Fultz #1? Kyrie in his short stint in college played much better defense than what Fultz has shown. Kyrie averaged 8.8 assists per 100 possessions, Fultz 10, I don't see the huge difference there. And its not like Kyrie played off the ball or anything, he was the primary ball handler.

After watching the 3 PGs in this draft, DSJ has the more lazy defensive possessions than anyone else, but he has also shown an ability to lock down on ball handlers at a higher level than Fultz has (especially as of late). If we are talking about who puts in the least consistent effort on D its definitely DSJ.

I assume we're rating them as prospects rather than college players - my bad if that's a wrong assumption. Kyrie never had the defensive ability of the others - and he's a step or 2 below all of them athletically. Just because he had some steals doesn't make him a good defender. Imo, Fultz is clearly the better all-around prospect. If Fultz has fewer assists in 10 games, you have to look at their teammates - where there's no comparison really.

Kyrie is a better athlete than Fultz. Fultz isn't some elite athlete.

[CptCrunch]

I hope all of you are talking about pre-draft, 11 game in college, Kyrie, not the All-Star, carried LeBron in finals Kyrie.

What gives DSJ the edge over Kyrie?

I'd have Kyrie last of the 4. His defensive ability is behind the others, and he's not a true PG. My view is:

1. Fultz
2. Wall
3. DSJ
4. Kyrie

Can we throw Rose, Ball, and Lillard into this convo.

Here is my list

1. DSJ
2. Rose
3. Fultz
4. Irving
5. Wall
..gap, I don't consider these two below to be in the same tier as above 5
6. Ball
7. Lillard

[Duke4life831]

I hope all of you are talking about pre-draft, 11 game in college, Kyrie, not the All-Star, carried LeBron in finals Kyrie.

I'd have Kyrie last of the 4. His defensive ability is behind the others, and he's not a true PG. My view is:

1. Fultz
2. Wall
3. DSJ
4. Kyrie

Can we throw Rose, Ball, and Lillard into this convo.

Here is my list

1. DSJ
2. Rose
3. Fultz
4. Irving
5. Wall
..gap, I don't consider these two below to be in the same tier as above 5
6. Ball
7. Lillard

Even in just his 11 games Kyrie was by far the best freshman to ever play at Duke still. He was unguardable. I thought Kyrie was a can't miss prospect.

[akhan786]

To me its clearly
1. Fultz
2. Kyrie
3. Wall
4. Rose/DSJ

I think Kyrie is the most gifted scorer in the league. That's how highly I rate Fultz. REALLY hope he goes anywhere but Philly which I feel like all prospects go to die.

[Mulhollanddrive]

My main worry is Dangelo Russell.

I see Fultz having to use the same dribble, hesitation, pull up moves because he can't get by his opponent on athleticism. All those moves look like he's a once in a generation player at college but then Russell hits the NBA and has struggled creating with those ball skills without the extra gear athletically.

[Marcus]

Fultz will have an adjustment period at first in the league so I don't think he burst out the gate the same way he did in college but he will figure it out and be effective at the next level.

[cksdayoff]

My main worry is Dangelo Russell.

I see Fultz having to use the same dribble, hesitation, pull up moves because he can't get by his opponent on athleticism. All those moves look like he's a once in a generation player at college but then Russell hits the NBA and has struggled creating with those ball skills without the extra gear athletically.

D'Angelo rarely attacked the rim in college. He had some loose handles, and wasn't crafty around the rim. All he had was a floater/tear drop and your basic layup.

Fultz and Russell are not the same, Fultz attacks the rim, draws contact and is strong enough to finish, gets to the line and more importantly, he's crafty around the basket. He has an idea of what he wants to do when he's attacking tthe painted area. The guy can adjust in the air and make acrobatic layups. Athletically, Fultz and Russell are nowhere near the same. Fultz is a tier above.

[reanimator]

My main worry is Dangelo Russell.

I see Fultz having to use the same dribble, hesitation, pull up moves because he can't get by his opponent on athleticism. All those moves look like he's a once in a generation player at college but then Russell hits the NBA and has struggled creating with those ball skills without the extra gear athletically.

D'Angelo rarely attacked the rim in college. He had some loose handles, and wasn't crafty around the rim. All he had was a floater/tear drop and your basic layup.

Fultz and Russell are not the same, Fultz attacks the rim, draws contact and is strong enough to finish, gets to the line and more importantly, he's crafty around the basket. He has an idea of what he wants to do when he's attacking tthe painted area. The guy can adjust in the air and make acrobatic layups. Athletically, Fultz and Russell are nowhere near the same. Fultz is a tier above.

This has been said again and again but people have agendas and narratives to run with. From shooting to passing to now athleticism, wonder what the next one will be?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Haven't yet seen a perfect basketballer at 18 with 0 NBA games.

The team picking no.1 would be negligent if they didn't nit pick any possible shortcomings apart.

[ItsThatEasy]

My main worry is Dangelo Russell.

I see Fultz having to use the same dribble, hesitation, pull up moves because he can't get by his opponent on athleticism. All those moves look like he's a once in a generation player at college but then Russell hits the NBA and has struggled creating with those ball skills without the extra gear athletically.

D'Angelo rarely attacked the rim in college. He had some loose handles, and wasn't crafty around the rim. All he had was a floater/tear drop and your basic layup.

Fultz and Russell are not the same, Fultz attacks the rim, draws contact and is strong enough to finish, gets to the line and more importantly, he's crafty around the basket. He has an idea of what he wants to do when he's attacking tthe painted area. The guy can adjust in the air and make acrobatic layups. Athletically, Fultz and Russell are nowhere near the same. Fultz is a tier above.

Hit the nail on the head buddy.