Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships

[Blue_and_Whte]

Oh look we "can't play Payton and Biz together", yet they are both starting tonight.

Wild.

Of course you cant discredit Bismack's impact on defense by just being on the floor, but imo the fact that Nik literally does everything else better while still playing solid defense gives him the advantage. People can try to put blinders on but Biyombo's defense isn't as impactful as people are trying to make it out to be. Our "Starter" played 20 minutes because he wasn't doing anything on defense or offense.

Here are the defensive dashboards for both centers so people can have something to reference. I don't think the drop off is much of a difference. But at least we have something people can use to form opinions.

Bismack Biyombo

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202687/defense-dash/

Nik Vucevic

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202696/defense-dash/

Like I've said before. You cant point at all these teams with one dimensional defensive centers as "the model of winning" while ignoring the fact that they've had elite wing players as teammates. I'm not opposed to trading Nik if it's an actual improvement, but as currently constructed losing one of only two players that can create offense and our best center doesn't make us better.

I am really done with Biz. He was brought in to do one thing and he cant even do that right. I could careless if he scores 2 points, but for God sake grab a rebound and protect the effing paint like your supposed to.

He cant do that against centers with size. Other fan bases that have watched him play warned us of that numerous times including Raptor fans. We fell for his one good playoff performance.

[Blue_and_Whte]

For the record, blocking shots does not equal protecting the rim or playing great defense. Some excellent defensive bigs also block a shot or two, but that isn't the only trick of a defensive center.



Just guessing here, but I think the fact that both teams have multiple stars at every position except center might also be a factor. They're good despite having journeymen centers, not because they have journeymen centers.



Well, it is unless you happen to watch Vuc and Biz both play, at which point it becomes quite obvious. I'm not saying we shouldn't trade Vuc for a scoring (preferably two-way) wing, but I don't agree with your statements that you can't win with an inside-out approach, and I do believe there is a significant talent difference between Vuc and Biz, at least right now.

For the record, the measure of rim protection actually is shot blocking plus opponent field goal % within 5 feet of the rim.

The warriors and Cavs were built a certain way for a certain reason. You are correct, you really were "just guessing" there. No on ever said they were good because they had journeyman Centers. In your rush to execute a snarky response post, you missed the point completely.

I have watched almost every game the Magic have played this season and while Biz has terrible hands, his defense is better, which is why he starts. In fact, if you actually did watch games you will see the Magic execute defensive switches with Biz on the floor that they simply do not do when Vuc is out there.

well vuc still plays more than him so he isnt that much better. Can we just agree we have two good centers and no reason to trade one unless it is for an allstar.

Well that's the point. We have TWO good centers not FOUR. There is no logjam. We have a starter and a backup. The fact that Mario hasn't made the jump is infuriating to me, but I've changed my stance, and I'm still holding out hope.

[Mc-o]

Man , it's a shame Mario isn't getting playing time because offensively his skillset is what the team needs .

[Blue_and_Whte]

Man , it's a shame Mario isn't getting playing time because offensively his skillset is what the team needs .

Well in December he's shooting 42% from 3 which is encouraging but that's largely during garbage time.

[Mc-o]

Man , it's a shame Mario isn't getting playing time because offensively his skillset is what the team needs .

Well in December he's shooting 42% from 3 which is encouraging but that's largely during garbage time.

That's all he is allowed to play lol

[BadMofoPimp]

Oh look we "can't play Payton and Biz together", yet they are both starting tonight.

Wild.

Of course you cant discredit Bismack's impact on defense by just being on the floor, but imo the fact that Nik literally does everything else better while still playing solid defense gives him the advantage. People can try to put blinders on but Biyombo's defense isn't as impactful as people are trying to make it out to be. Our "Starter" played 20 minutes because he wasn't doing anything on defense or offense.

Here are the defensive dashboards for both centers so people can have something to reference. I don't think the drop off is much of a difference. But at least we have something people can use to form opinions.

Bismack Biyombo

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202687/defense-dash/

Nik Vucevic

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202696/defense-dash/

Like I've said before. You cant point at all these teams with one dimensional defensive centers as "the model of winning" while ignoring the fact that they've had elite wing players as teammates. I'm not opposed to trading Nik if it's an actual improvement, but as currently constructed losing one of only two players that can create offense and our best center doesn't make us better.

I am really done with Biz. He was brought in to do one thing and he cant even do that right. I could careless if he scores 2 points, but for God sake grab a rebound and protect the effing paint like your supposed to.

He cant do that against centers with size. Other fan bases that have watched him play warned us of that numerous times including Raptor fans. We fell for his one good playoff performance.

Lets look at overall team Offense and Defense. Bizmark has virtually no impact on overall defensive stats so far this season over last season. And, this is with the additon of Ibaka who is a superior defensive player in comparison to anybody else on the team. This just reinforces that defense is a Team Effort, not an individual making any difference. $18 mil is alot of money for someone who would be a backup on about every other team in the league.

[PennytoShaq]

Oh look we "can't play Payton and Biz together", yet they are both starting tonight.

Wild.

Of course you cant discredit Bismack's impact on defense by just being on the floor, but imo the fact that Nik literally does everything else better while still playing solid defense gives him the advantage. People can try to put blinders on but Biyombo's defense isn't as impactful as people are trying to make it out to be. Our "Starter" played 20 minutes because he wasn't doing anything on defense or offense.

Here are the defensive dashboards for both centers so people can have something to reference. I don't think the drop off is much of a difference. But at least we have something people can use to form opinions.

Bismack Biyombo

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202687/defense-dash/

Nik Vucevic

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202696/defense-dash/

Like I've said before. You cant point at all these teams with one dimensional defensive centers as "the model of winning" while ignoring the fact that they've had elite wing players as teammates. I'm not opposed to trading Nik if it's an actual improvement, but as currently constructed losing one of only two players that can create offense and our best center doesn't make us better.

I am really done with Biz. He was brought in to do one thing and he cant even do that right. I could careless if he scores 2 points, but for God sake grab a rebound and protect the effing paint like your supposed to.

He cant do that against centers with size. Other fan bases that have watched him play warned us of that numerous times including Raptor fans. We fell for his one good playoff performance.

Again, this is my problem with people who just use stats to base their arguments on defense. The Magic are a lot more switchy with Biz in than Vuc. Vogel starts him for a reason. He can guard anyone on the floor. He even played next to Vuc for a while last night and covered some wings at times. a lot of the stuff he does is not going to show up in the stat sheet.

He did not have a great game last night, but from a schematic perspective the Magic can do a lot more on defense with him out there. The problem is not the C's. The problem is that we have 4 guys who can switch effectively- Elf/AG/Biz and Ibaka. To really run that defense effectively, you need to go all in with 8 or 9 deep who can do it.

Additionally the model of winning IS elite wings. That has been my point all along. We need to upgrade our wing play. While I am not expecting to land Lebron in a deal, the Magic need more 2 way wing players. They need to create offense from the wing more than the paint.

A lot of the stuff you are saying is basically in line with what I am. The reason the whole thing is so confusing is the Magic simply have no real identity and we are not sure the direction of the team. Is it going to be a switchy small lineup, a big old school plodder? Right now it is a big lineup that tries to run the floor and as a result has inconsistent energy night to night.

[j-ragg]

The Rob apologist in me would just like to point out he didn't fall for "1 playoff series". During the season albeit in his backup role, he posted really good rebounding a shot blocking advanced stats. Maybe Toronto was just a better fit for him. Or maybe his shoulder is a bigger worry.

[Gomagic44]

Maybe it's easier to appear as a good defender when you have Lowry and derozen combining for 35-50 pts a night together. We split that between like 5guys usually. We suck at scoring so much that we are using biz and as a p&r go to guy lol.


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[PennytoShaq]

Maybe it's easier to appear as a good defender when you have Lowry and derozen combining for 35-50 pts a night together. We split that between like 5guys usually. We suck at scoring so much that we are using biz and as a p&r go to guy lol.


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Exactly right.

[npiper17]

Reading this makes me envy Celtics fans (and it's not very often I say that ):

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

[BadMofoPimp]

Reading this makes me envy Celtics fans (and it's not very often I say that ):

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

Even this past offseason, fans here were stating that the Magic were in better position for the future than the Celtics. I was like . . . "Wwwwhhhuuuuuutttt????"

[Jiwol]

Reading this makes me envy Celtics fans (and it's not very often I say that ):

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

Why don't we have Lakers' pick?!
EDIT - ok, nevermind. I understand that we root for them to give their pick to Philly (top 3 protected) because if they do, we get their own pick in 2019. If they land in top 3 in this year's draft, we're screwed, right?

[Jameerthefear]

Looks like the other team in Florida is about to get them another young stud in the draft while we're stuck in mediocrity.

[OrlandoNed]

Reading this makes me envy Celtics fans (and it's not very often I say that ):

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

Why don't we have Lakers' pick?!

We get the Laker pick in 2019 not this year. The Lakers need to stay out of the Top 3 this year and convey their pick to the Sixers for us to get the pick in 2019.

[Jiwol]

Reading this makes me envy Celtics fans (and it's not very often I say that ):

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

Why don't we have Lakers' pick?!

We get the Laker pick in 2019 not this year. The Lakers need to stay out of the Top 3 this year and convey their pick to the Sixers for us to get the pick in 2019.

Yeah, I did quick research and edited my post before you answered. I mixed it up.

[j-ragg]

I will be so pissed if LA somehow squeezes into the top 3 in this draft.

I'm sure after a few more losses someone will keep a losses thread that tracks our draft slot and the Lakers' place in the west.

[RickB-Orlando]

Reading this makes me envy Celtics fans (and it's not very often I say that ):

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

Ugh:

ORL
(16-21) Frank Ntilikina
PG (Strasbourg - International)
18.4 years old | 6'5" | 170 lbs Frank Ntilikina 2016 Basketball Without Borders Breakdown
Watch Video
2016-17 French, Champions League (22 GP)
5.0 PPG 1.3 RPG 1.2 APG 14.3 PER

Just what we need, another international player who is so good he can't post dominating numbers with his Euro team.

Plus I can't even imagine how to pronounce his name.

[PennytoShaq]

Well, on a positive note, we are one pick away from Fox sliding down to us.

[rcklsscognition]

We trade dwight before 2012-2013 season. The Heat win the chip that year. They miss the playoffs and then make them last year. They reach the semi finals ffs and now they are in line to draft top 3 guaranteed and walk away with a generational player just months after being in the eastern confernece semifinals? Am i remembering correctly?

What a difference in 5 years.