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Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships

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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1001 » by npiper17 » Thu Jan 5, 2017 10:12 pm

RickB-Orlando wrote:
npiper17 wrote:Reading this makes me envy Celtics fans (and it's not very often I say that ;-)):

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/


Ugh:

ORL
(16-21) Frank Ntilikina
PG (Strasbourg - International)
18.4 years old | 6'5" | 170 lbs Frank Ntilikina 2016 Basketball Without Borders Breakdown
Watch Video
2016-17 French, Champions League (22 GP)
5.0 PPG 1.3 RPG 1.2 APG 14.3 PER

Just what we need, another international player who is so good he can't post dominating numbers with his Euro team.

Plus I can't even imagine how to pronounce his name.


My thoughts exactly.

Look if this was projected to be a weak draft, then fine let's get that 8th seed come hell or high water but when there's a number of players projected to be high impact guys, I would much rather play the likes of Hezonja over Green and let us lose a little more. After this west coast trip it may not matter anyway.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1002 » by npiper17 » Thu Jan 5, 2017 10:14 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
npiper17 wrote:Reading this makes me envy Celtics fans (and it's not very often I say that ;-)):

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/


Even this past offseason, fans here were stating that the Magic were in better position for the future than the Celtics. I was like . . . "Wwwwhhhuuuuuutttt????"


If only. They have a very bright future and with the likely addition of Hayward plus a top 5 pick plus another year of Thomas on the second best value deal in the league (which will become the best value deal in the league after Curry re-signs), they are set.

As the Cavs showed last night, it only takes an injury or two and you can be in with a chance of losing to the Warriors in the Finals!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1003 » by PrimeThyme » Thu Jan 5, 2017 10:36 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:We trade dwight before 2012-2013 season. The Heat win the chip that year. They miss the playoffs and then make them last year. They reach the semi finals ffs and now they are in line to draft top 3 guaranteed and walk away with a generational player just months after being in the eastern confernece semifinals? Am i remembering correctly?

What a difference in 5 years.

That's what first class management and ownership gets you.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1004 » by Bensational » Thu Jan 5, 2017 11:26 pm

npiper17 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
npiper17 wrote:Reading this makes me envy Celtics fans (and it's not very often I say that ;-)):

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/


Even this past offseason, fans here were stating that the Magic were in better position for the future than the Celtics. I was like . . . "Wwwwhhhuuuuuutttt????"


If only. They have a very bright future and with the likely addition of Hayward plus a top 5 pick plus another year of Thomas on the second best value deal in the league (which will become the best value deal in the league after Curry re-signs), they are set.

As the Cavs showed last night, it only takes an injury or two and you can be in with a chance of losing to the Warriors in the Finals!


Eh, Celtics are in line for their own troubles. All their good value contracts will run out real soon, and they'll have to re-sign guys at proper market value. If they land a top pick this year, it's likely to be a PG, the same position where their current best player plays, and where their #6 draft pick Marcus Smart plays. They have their #3 pick playing only 13mpg right now, behind Jae Crowder, so he's likely gone if they want to move Brown into a starting role at some point.

So unless they're able to turn those assets into drafted stars (Smart doesn't seem like one, and it's too soon to know about Brown, who knows who they end up with in this next draft), or trade them for a star (apart from Cousins, who else do they really have a shot at?), they'll eventually settle into a middling team, same as the rest of us. Even if they draft a stud this year, it's going to take him 2-3 years until he's good enough to carry them to the playoffs, during which time Horford and Thomas only get older, their good value teammates disappear as they all start signing deals too big to remain on the squad, and suddenly you look more like 2016-17 Portland Trailblazers than a legit top 3 team in a conference.

Also, on paper they're looking at a #1 pick. On paper we should've had a #1 pick and a #3 pick (Embiid?). The Knicks should've had a #2 pick, but they got #4 (and still got the 2nd best player in the draft). Boston's appeal is their potential, but unless that potential is realised, it becomes another plodding rebuild.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1005 » by OrlandoDream » Thu Jan 5, 2017 11:30 pm

PrimeShaq wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:We trade dwight before 2012-2013 season. The Heat win the chip that year. They miss the playoffs and then make them last year. They reach the semi finals ffs and now they are in line to draft top 3 guaranteed and walk away with a generational player just months after being in the eastern confernece semifinals? Am i remembering correctly?

What a difference in 5 years.

That's what first class management and ownership gets you.

Riley got criticized deeply for letting Wade go but he knew exactly what he was doing. Just look at the turmoil CHI is in now while Heat kept their most valuable asset in whiteside and are in a position to draft a future star.

House cleaning could be coming soon.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1006 » by Bensational » Thu Jan 5, 2017 11:44 pm

PrimeShaq wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:We trade dwight before 2012-2013 season. The Heat win the chip that year. They miss the playoffs and then make them last year. They reach the semi finals ffs and now they are in line to draft top 3 guaranteed and walk away with a generational player just months after being in the eastern confernece semifinals? Am i remembering correctly?

What a difference in 5 years.

That's what first class management and ownership gets you.


The only thing that matters is getting a championship, right? So unless your season ends in that, or damn close to it, you can call it a failure.

So the next thing that matters is feeling like you've got a shot at the championship, and that comes from having the right talent. If you miss the Finals or Conference Finals, if you at least feel like you've got the talent, you can feel like you've still got a shot.

If you don't have the talent, and you don't have a legit shot in the playoffs, then you can only hope to get lucky adding new talent through free agency/trades/a steal of a draft pick.

If you don't have talent, and can't get into the playoffs, then you can only hope to add players through the draft, and generally the very best of them come in top picks (but plenty don't come in the top picks).

I don't think Miami is much further along in these goals than we are, and they haven't hit any greater heights that meant anything (short of a championship, and that hope left town with LeBron).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1007 » by OrlandO » Thu Jan 5, 2017 11:48 pm

Bensational wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:We trade dwight before 2012-2013 season. The Heat win the chip that year. They miss the playoffs and then make them last year. They reach the semi finals ffs and now they are in line to draft top 3 guaranteed and walk away with a generational player just months after being in the eastern confernece semifinals? Am i remembering correctly?

What a difference in 5 years.

That's what first class management and ownership gets you.


The only thing that matters is getting a championship, right? So unless your season ends in that, or damn close to it, you can call it a failure.

So the next thing that matters is feeling like you've got a shot at the championship, and that comes from having the right talent. If you miss the Finals or Conference Finals, if you at least feel like you've got the talent, you can feel like you've still got a shot.

If you don't have the talent, and you don't have a legit shot in the playoffs, then you can only hope to get lucky adding new talent through free agency/trades/a steal of a draft pick.

If you don't have talent, and can't get into the playoffs, then you can only hope to add players through the draft, and generally the very best of them come in top picks (but plenty don't come in the top picks).

I don't think Miami is much further along in these goals than we are, and they haven't hit any greater heights that meant anything (short of a championship, and that hope left town with LeBron).

Whiteside will be 28 next season. If they don't hit on an immediate star in the draft and don't get some good free agents then they are going to waste his prime years. Hmm, maybe they will keep Dragic and trade their pick for a vet star?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1008 » by OrlChamps2030 » Fri Jan 6, 2017 12:10 am

I expect the Heat to bounce back pretty quickly.

Whiteside is an all star caliber C. Quality young prospects in J Rich, Winslow, and Johnson. Cap space. Championship organization. Free agent destination. Continuity between coaching and the front office.

And most of all they got the tank rolling for one of the better drafts in recent history that is stacked at a future position of need for them.. They have a maestro of a GM in Riley.

One or two year rebuild .. Definitely stings a bit
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1009 » by Furinkazan » Fri Jan 6, 2017 12:50 am

seems like it started already? Cavs-Korver? firesale in ATL inc?:D
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1010 » by OrlandO » Fri Jan 6, 2017 1:00 am

~Snoopy~ wrote:seems like it started already? Cavs-Korver? firesale in ATL inc?:D

In before we trade Ibaka for Millsap.
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Re: RE: Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1011 » by Nyce_1 » Fri Jan 6, 2017 2:12 am

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Mc-o wrote:Man , it's a shame Mario isn't getting playing time because offensively his skillset is what the team needs .

Well in December he's shooting 42% from 3 which is encouraging but that's largely during garbage time.

Definitely an improvement from the start of the season.

I think he'll get his time. Vogel, when speaking about AG in a recent interview, also Mario's time will come.

I think it was a challenge to try and develop all the guys we have at once, AND still try to win. Get AG & Elf stable, then add some Mario to the recipe.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1012 » by Nyce_1 » Fri Jan 6, 2017 2:16 am

I Hate Alex Martins. That is all.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1013 » by Magic#1 » Fri Jan 6, 2017 2:53 am

If the Hawks and Bulls really do have a fire sale, then those are two less teams we have to worry about for the playoffs (hopefully).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1014 » by thelead » Fri Jan 6, 2017 3:59 am

Magic#1 wrote:If the Hawks and Bulls really do have a fire sale, then those are two less teams we have to worry about for the playoffs (hopefully).

So we'll suck less then them, get into the playoffs, get crushed, and then this board will whine because they 'got lucky' by tanking. That about right?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1015 » by Ducklett » Fri Jan 6, 2017 4:13 am

TOR has to be worried about being able to beat the Cavs. If I was their GM, I would be on the phone with the Magic offering everything they can offer to get Ibaka.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1016 » by OrlandoDream » Fri Jan 6, 2017 4:19 am

Ducklett wrote:TOR has to be worried about being able to beat the Cavs. If I was their GM, I would be on the phone with the Magic offering everything they can offer to get Ibaka.

They have nothing on their team to make us want to trade Ibaka. Derozan and Lowry out of course.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1017 » by Ducklett » Fri Jan 6, 2017 4:20 am

OrlandoDream wrote:
Ducklett wrote:TOR has to be worried about being able to beat the Cavs. If I was their GM, I would be on the phone with the Magic offering everything they can offer to get Ibaka.

They have nothing on their team to make us want to trade Ibaka. Derozan and Lowry out of course.


I didn't say they did, I am just saying that with the Cavs getting Korver or basically nothing, it's Cavs and Warriors again in the finals without much of an issue.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1018 » by Landshark » Fri Jan 6, 2017 4:28 am

thelead wrote:
Magic#1 wrote:If the Hawks and Bulls really do have a fire sale, then those are two less teams we have to worry about for the playoffs (hopefully).

So we'll suck less then them, get into the playoffs, get crushed, and then this board will whine because they 'got lucky' by tanking. That about right?

Sounds about right. Hopefully this won't be an issue, since the Hawks are pretty far ahead of us in the standings, and I don't see why the Bulls would actually trade Butler. Most likely they're just listening to offers.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1019 » by fendilim » Fri Jan 6, 2017 4:38 am

Magic#1 wrote:If the Hawks and Bulls really do have a fire sale, then those are two less teams we have to worry about for the playoffs (hopefully).

Well, are you not worried abt the future of our team that those stronger teams are already on firesale And we are not?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships 

Post#1020 » by OrlandoDream » Fri Jan 6, 2017 4:55 am

Ducklett wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:
Ducklett wrote:TOR has to be worried about being able to beat the Cavs. If I was their GM, I would be on the phone with the Magic offering everything they can offer to get Ibaka.

They have nothing on their team to make us want to trade Ibaka. Derozan and Lowry out of course.


I didn't say they did, I am just saying that with the Cavs getting Korver or basically nothing, it's Cavs and Warriors again in the finals without much of an issue.

The Raptors never really stood a chance vs Bron and the Cavs. The Korver move was made to help defeat Golden State not the Raptors. Even if Raps get Millsap, the series would go to 5-6 games max. Cavs are just too good.

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