Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[Mech Engineer]

One thing we know...For all their incompetence, GarPax aren't selling Butler for low value what other team fans dream about. They will not sell and waste the asset but will not sell it for low value.

They will not sell him for what other fans dream about, but other GMs also won't give away their assets in dream offers either.

Not true. If you assume other GMs are competent and want to win, they will know the value of a Butler and will have confidence in themselves to build a team around Jimmy/other good NBA players they already have like they do in Boston. I think also the desperation part will increase for Ainge with the new CBA rules. He has to time it well and expecting some 18 year old in the next two years will mesh with the now-win types like Horford, IT etc... will not work.

[kyrv]

Would it surprise anyone that JR would rather keep his "Boy's Club" aka GarPaxBerg around rather than keep Butler around? Best way to keep them around and not have to fire Hoiberg (while eating his contract) is to sell Jimmy off and lower the expectations. I wouldn't put it past him.

There are a large amount of pro-tank people. JR is not one of them, up until this point. I am not pro-tank, but just Fyi there are basketballs reasons people want Jimmy traded.

But just so we are clear:

Keep Jimmy: Crazy sob wants to make the playoffs (the audacity!).

Trade Jimmy: Avoid firing Hoiberg by concocting a sinister elaborate plan.

Except, you know they can not fire Hoiberg by just not firing Hoiberg right?

[Rerisen]

As fans we have no more control over if/who Butler is traded for, than we do for who Jerry picks as his GM. So it all seems even level speculation to me.

No, it isn't. We both agree that GarPax should be fired. You're adding speculation about what's the best route to go to get Jerry Reinsdorf to fire them. You're speculating about what's going on in the head of Reinsdorf. That's far different speculation.

Yes, because its not that hard to see some paths to an end are far more logical than others.

It seems clear some of us weigh the removal or even chance of removal of the FO more important that others. Some are resigned to the GarPax regime and, while they dislike them, would just like to get on with blowing it up right now, that's perfectly fine to admit.

I'll be happy to lose a few spots in the draft even for the chance they get canned. The big asset is Jimmy and he'll still be here to use either way.

If there's an absolutely amazing offer on the table for Butler, I don't want the Bulls rejecting it simply because I think it might give GarPax more time.

If they pull off an amazing trade tomorrow, I'll reconsider my position. Though when dealing with draft picks I don't believe there is such a thing as knowing what is an amazing deal till years down the line when you truly see what they became.

[Jimako10]

Would it surprise anyone that JR would rather keep his "Boy's Club" aka GarPaxBerg around rather than keep Butler around? Best way to keep them around and not have to fire Hoiberg (while eating his contract) is to sell Jimmy off and lower the expectations. I wouldn't put it past him.

He doesn't like his boys club more than butts in the seats.

2 straight years missing the playoffs would be a major violation of the prime directive.

I wouldn't call it a major violation when in those 2 years the bulls still lead the league in attendance.

[Chi]

Smh... They're really going to let this Gar guy get rid of everything and everybody close to Good/Great/Elite that the Bulls have lucked up on since MJ Retired...

[kyrv]

As fans we have no more control over if/who Butler is traded for, than we do for who Jerry picks as his GM. So it all seems even level speculation to me.

No, it isn't. We both agree that GarPax should be fired. You're adding speculation about what's the best route to go to get Jerry Reinsdorf to fire them. You're speculating about what's going on in the head of Reinsdorf. That's far different speculation.

If there's an absolutely amazing offer on the table for Butler, I don't want the Bulls rejecting it simply because I think it might give GarPax more time.

I agree, they have to listen. I'm not expecting a great offer but never know.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Korver traded to Cleveland FYI.

[Rerisen]

One thing we know...For all their incompetence, GarPax aren't selling Butler for low value what other team fans dream about. They will not sell and waste the asset but will not sell it for low value.

They will not sell him for what other fans dream about, but other GMs also won't give away their assets in dream offers either.

Not true. If you assume other GMs are competent and want to win, they will know the value of a Butler and will have confidence in themselves to build a team around Jimmy/other good NBA players they already have like they do in Boston. I think also the desperation part will increase for Ainge with the new CBA rules. He has to time it well and expecting some 18 year old in the next two years will mesh with the now-win types like Horford, IT etc... will not work.

Seems you are saying Garpax are going to school Danny Ainge, I won't hold my breath.

[MC3]

Cubs tanked.....built through draft
White Sox going in tank mode
Blackhawks built through draft
Bears are 1 of the youngest teams in the league building through the draft

Bulls might try to do the same

fixed

Bulls might, GarPax wont.

You mean the same GarPax that fall in love with their drafted players?

Keeping draftees and lack of trades is one of the biggest criticisms of GarPax.

And all teams in all sports build via the draft. Well maybe only 99%.

I dont think GarPax are getting another 5 years, chance to build a team after last 5, specially last 2. I dont see Jerry's confidence into giving responsibility of rebuild to people who missed every single prospect since 2012. Both 1st rounders and 2nd rounders. That's almost 10 wasted picks. Teague, Snell, Mcdermott, Portis, I include Valentine, Bairstow, Murphy + all wasted 2nd rounders given in Mcdermott trade. People who dont know anymore how modern NBA basketball players looks like. We can talk about how hard is to hit good player in middle of the lottery, but that's just terrible record. You would likely luck out once by law of large numbers.

Even if that's not enough. Just the way they handled Thibs mess, before Ron Adams just to get their way, before that Vinny incident. Are those really people who you trust your business? This franchise needs clean start at the top. A fresh start. New perspective. New vision.

[Rerisen]

Would it surprise anyone that JR would rather keep his "Boy's Club" aka GarPaxBerg around rather than keep Butler around? Best way to keep them around and not have to fire Hoiberg (while eating his contract) is to sell Jimmy off and lower the expectations. I wouldn't put it past him.

He doesn't like his boys club more than butts in the seats.

2 straight years missing the playoffs would be a major violation of the prime directive.

I wouldn't call it a major violation when in those 2 years the bulls still lead the league in attendance.

Playoff revenue is many millions more though.

[Rerisen]

I agree, they have to listen. I'm not expecting a great offer but never know.

There is a difference from listening via active shopping a guy, and just general listening, as in any player on any team could have someone call about them out of the blue, while only 3 or 4 guys in the league are untouchable.

It's very important distinction with regard the offers if teams are notified a guy is 'available'. Most likely the offers will be worse than if someone calls out of the blue, with no prior understanding that the player would be on the market.

We have no idea which is which at the moment.

[Proven_Winner]

Jimmy should only be moved for a star of equal status. Jimmy is on a great contract with decent health so Boston at least IMO is out of the race.

[JimmyButler21]

I'm okay with trading Jimmy but GarPax cannot be making that move or overseeing the following rebuild. Otherwise, there's no point to this at all.

[robbie84]

Celtics would give up the Brooklyn 2017 pick. Maybe Terry Rozier+Kelly Olynyk too with Amir Johnson for Salary.
We'd want to keep Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart for a playoff run. I'm not sure how much you'd want those guys for a rebuilding project anyway?
So the offer would be something like...

2017 Brooklyn pick (currently #1, probably top 3 at season's end)
2019 Memphis pick (could be gold considering Gasol's age/health history)
Terry Rozier
Kelly Olynyk
Amir Johnson

Ending up with Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball or Dennis Smith/Jayson Taytum and Memphis pick is a solid building block for yall right?
Could probably swing a 3 team deal with the 76ers that sends Okafor to you guys too along with the 2018 Brooklyn pick to 76ers (or you).

The advantage you have is that the Celtics want an impact player to put next to IT and Horford ASAP and Jimmy fits the bill perfectly for that. So you could get the 2018 Brooklyn pick on top of the above depending how badly Danny Ainge likes Butler.

If the Celtics land the #1 pick (having kept it), I'd like to offer the 76ers a trade for their pick+ Lakers pick which are currently #2 and #7 in a loaded draft- which is an option for you guys if you had the pick too.

[Mech Engineer]

They will not sell him for what other fans dream about, but other GMs also won't give away their assets in dream offers either.

Not true. If you assume other GMs are competent and want to win, they will know the value of a Butler and will have confidence in themselves to build a team around Jimmy/other good NBA players they already have like they do in Boston. I think also the desperation part will increase for Ainge with the new CBA rules. He has to time it well and expecting some 18 year old in the next two years will mesh with the now-win types like Horford, IT etc... will not work.

Seems you are saying Garpax are going to school Danny Ainge, I won't hold my breath.

Not really, this is not about GarPax schooling Ainge. As I said, even Divac will get a good return for Cousins..this is like an auction for a proven star or a top 10 player for the next 3/4 years. You just put him out there and you will get more than what was offered this past summer.

IMO, it was all feelers last summer from Thibs/Ainge and they were definitely low-balling.

[Rerisen]

Not really, this is not about GarPax schooling Ainge. As I said, even Divac will get a good return for Cousins..this is like an auction for a proven star or a top 10 player for the next 3/4 years. You just put him out there and you will get more than what was offered this past summer.

IMO, it was all feelers last summer from Thibs/Ainge and they were definitely low-balling.

Well the most recent report we have, post Bucher, is that he's not being actively shopped.

I think its all bogus, or maybe a week or two old info from during the Rondo skid, when things looked bleak.

Now we are back in the playoff picture, and that was the plan all along.

[HoopsterJones]

Korver traded to Cleveland FYI.

As if they didn't have enough 3 point shooting already. Good move to replace JR Smith with.

[TheGOATRises007]

Celtics would give up the Brooklyn 2017 pick. Maybe Terry Rozier+Kelly Olynyk too with Amir Johnson for Salary.
We'd want to keep Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart for a playoff run. I'm not sure how much you'd want those guys for a rebuilding project anyway?
So the offer would be something like...

2017 Brooklyn pick (probably top 3)
2019 Memphis pick (could be gold considering Gasol's age/health history)
Terry Rozier
Kelly Olynyk
Amir Johnson

Ending up with Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball or Dennis Smith/Jayson Taytum and Memphis pick is a solid building block for yall right?
Could probably swing a 3 team deal with the 76ers that sends Okafor to you guys too along with the 2018 Brooklyn pick to 76ers (or you).

The advantage you have is that the Celtics want an impact player to put next to IT and Horford ASAP and Jimmy fits the bill perfectly for that. So you could get the 2018 Brooklyn pick on top of the above depending how badly Danny Ainge likes Butler.

If the Celtics land the #1 pick (having kept it), I'd like to offer the 76ers a trade for their pick+ Lakers pick which are currently #2 and #7 in a loaded draft- which is an option for you guys if you had the pick too.

If the Bulls FO accepted that, they have brain damage.

[MC3]

2017 Brooklyn pick (probably top 3)
2019 Memphis pick (could be gold considering Gasol's age/health history)
Terry Rozier
Kelly Olynyk
Amir Johnson

That's garbage.

[Mech Engineer]

Not really, this is not about GarPax schooling Ainge. As I said, even Divac will get a good return for Cousins..this is like an auction for a proven star or a top 10 player for the next 3/4 years. You just put him out there and you will get more than what was offered this past summer.

IMO, it was all feelers last summer from Thibs/Ainge and they were definitely low-balling.

Well the most recent report we have, post Bucher, is that he's not being actively shopped.

I think its all bogus, or maybe a week or two old info from during the Rondo skid, when things looked bleak.

Now we are back in the playoff picture, and that was the plan all along.

probably true. Jimmy has put himself in the top 10 player discussion and that too as a 2-way player on top of it and he is one of the youngest/less mileage of those guys. It has to be really something bad going on to actively shop Jimmy in 2017.

If you consider Westbrook, Harden, George etc..., Jimmy has played very less and he had almost a red-shirt freshmen year. And, his game has probably not even peaked compared to those guys.