Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[DroseReturnChi]

Butler is arguably a top-5 player in the NBA and he's only 27.

I can see the appeal in rebuilding since your team sucks, but the goal of a rebuild is to find a player like Butler. You have that player right now so why not try to (properly) build around him? Put a new GM in charge and give it a shot.

You got it completely wrong. The goal is to find at least 2 calibers of Butler and we only have 1. 27 is not a young age and contending means management wont change. Rebuilding means new mgt most likely so way better this way.

[veji1]

The situation wit Butler is the following :
- He is 27 years, signed for 5 years (one is Player option) in 2015 so basically he has 2 firm years with us after this one, the last one when he turns 30 being an option that he should decline in the new CBA to get super duper doe.
- It is his 3rd season as a leader of this team, the first one as the undisputed alpha dog.

The situation with him will grow more and more complicated if this team doesn't manage to turn very competitive fast because at the end of next season he will enter the last certain year of his contract before his player option. The team will at this point face the risk of him either bolting or asking for supermax (do you give it to him if your team isn't doing that great killing your flexibility Atlanta Joe Johnson style ?). Add to that that he might either want to go for most money, or want to go for winning, or try to get both.

If the Bulls can't get a good dynamic going and it looks like the retool is stallin, going for a rebuild and trading Butler while they can, say at some point after the end of the 17-18 season might make sense, à la trading Kevin Love for Minny, the type of thing you do not because you want it but because you have to.

So yeah speculation about Butler will continue for foreseeable future.

[samwana]

Bulls FO has fu.... up the chance to rebuild with Butler when they signed Rondo and Wade last summer. They should have gone all young, like they seem to want to do now without Butler.
Our FO has made no sense for years. I wouldn't want them to be in charge of a complete rebuild.
Please JR have mercy for your fans.

[BigSleep333]

long story short. you save YEARS when you trade your only real valuable piece who is 27, if you want a real chance at a title.

if you dont trade him, you have to get lucky in free agency. but thats highly unlikely. if you stick with butler and cant find any other stars in their prime (highly likely) you are wasting 5 years or more beeing mediocre. with multiple young prospects (the return for butler and your own picks that will rise in draftboards this and the next 1-2 years) you increase your chances for more stars at once.

there are no guarantees either way, but the chances are better with a rebuild

[veji1]

long story short. you save YEARS when you trade your only real valuable piece who is 27, if you want a real chance at a title.

if you dont trade him, you have to get lucky in free agency. but thats highly unlikely. if you stick with butler and cant find any other stars in their prime (highly likely) you are wasting 5 years or more beeing mediocre. with multiple young prospects (the return for butler and your own picks that will rise in draftboards) you increase your chances for more stars at once.

there are no guarantees either way, but the chances are better with a rebuild

Long story short this is completely wrong...

You don't save years when you trade your only valuable piece who is 27... you just admit that you didn't succeed in your retool and have to go for the rebuild... but you ALWAYS try the retool first. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Do you see Portland trading away Lillard when Aldridge leaves ? no, they try to retool around him and build a new group.

You can say the FO messed the rebuild, that's perferctly legitimate, but you have to give it a shot before moving on. Otherwise you are just plain bonkers.

[Rerisen]

And if the Bulls trade Jimmy and Taj, we could realistically become a bottom five team this year, right?

I don't think that's realistic at all. Even without Butler and Taj we would likely only lose similar to the current worst 5 teams, which means due to that were already at .500 nearing half the season, we would not catch them.

Should have tanked in the offseason if that's what they wanted to do.

[BigSleep333]

long story short. you save YEARS when you trade your only real valuable piece who is 27, if you want a real chance at a title.

if you dont trade him, you have to get lucky in free agency. but thats highly unlikely. if you stick with butler and cant find any other stars in their prime (highly likely) you are wasting 5 years or more beeing mediocre. with multiple young prospects (the return for butler and your own picks that will rise in draftboards) you increase your chances for more stars at once.

there are no guarantees either way, but the chances are better with a rebuild

Long story short this is completely wrong...

You don't save years when you trade your only valuable piece who is 27... you just admit that you didn't succeed in your retool and have to go for the rebuild... but you ALWAYS try the retool first. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Do you see Portland trading away Lillard when Aldridge leaves ? no, they try to retool around him and build a new group.

You can say the FO messed the rebuild, that's perferctly legitimate, but you have to give it a shot before moving on. Otherwise you are just plain bonkers.

how does it work for portland? they messed it up in free agency and are stuck in mediocrity for years. they luckily have some other pieces besides lillard, so they can trade mccollum or harkless first to utilize them.

[Rerisen]

does anyone know the last time a player as good as butler was traded in a similar situation? multiple years left on his contract, still trending upward, in the middle of a top-10 season on a .500 team in the playoff picture?

Melo was traded from an eventual 50 win team at 26 years old.

But he wanted out.

[jimmy_smith]

Jaylen Brown, Jae Crowder, Net's 2017/18 Picks

Get out of here

[qianlong]

I just want the team to pick a direction.
Trade him for a good package, rebuild around him or try to make some improvements but do not waste the season waiting.

Also jimmy is a great player but he is in the 8-15 range. Don't let the recent 50 points game cloud your mind

[JohnnyTapwater]

Can Wade recruit?

Can the FO draft?

Can our coaches develop?

Those are the only ways we'll get better....If you're thinking, "no" to all of those options, blow it up.

[Ralphb07]

I said this last May/June and will say it again. If the Bulls trade Jimmy Butler it's going to be a deal so good most of you will be on board.

Give me a list of deals where a star player was traded away, and the return was of anything close to equal value. In most recent years, all I can think of is the Love deal that worked out fairly well, but all the others involving a star the other team trading away the play usually gets molested.

What I'm saying is that I'm not overly optimistic that everyone will be happy with the returns on a Jimmy trade.

What I'm saying is the Bulls aren't moving Butler for scrubs. That if they made a deal for him it would be something most would say you couldn't of turned it down. Coldfish said it earlier look at what Pax traded Crawford and Curry for and they aren't anywhere near the level of Jimmy. Look at what they got for lesser players like James Johnson, Ty Thomas etc. this wouldn't be a financial move, which those are the move Bulls aren't looking for any return but to save money.

[Ralphb07]

I said this last May/June and will say it again. If the Bulls trade Jimmy Butler it's going to be a deal so good most of you will be on board.

Give me a list of deals where a star player was traded away, and the return was of anything close to equal value. In most recent years, all I can think of is the Love deal that worked out fairly well, but all the others involving a star the other team trading away the play usually gets molested.

What I'm saying is that I'm not overly optimistic that everyone will be happy with the returns on a Jimmy trade.

Exactly. Deron Williams is the only recent star trade I can recall that worked out for the team trading the star away.

I would argue that Wiggins isnt better than Live anyways. After next season Wiggins is going to make a lot more money so Love will be an even better value.

Wiggins might not be better than Love but that was a pretty damn good get for Minny for Love who wasn't returning. What does Wiggins getting paid have anything to do with it? Every player thats good gets more than what their rookie contract was. I don't get why that has any bearings on anything.

[Ralphb07]

I said this last May/June and will say it again. If the Bulls trade Jimmy Butler it's going to be a deal so good most of you will be on board.

In your opinion, any chance it happens at the deadline, or would they strictly be putting out the feelers and then wanting to a do a deal in the offseason?

I guess if the 'great deal' is there, then they just take it while it's on the table, regardless of whether that's the deadline or not.

When you aren't actively pursuing or have someone on the trading block you usually get more value. So the Bulls aren't hanging up the phone when teams expressed interest. To me that's what happening. Teams are calling about Jimmy and the Bulls are taking these teams pitches. If a team proposes a deal that the Bulls feel is too good of a return they will take it. I see nothing wrong with this approach and theres only like 4-5 guys in this entire league that are just untradeable.

[CoreyVillains]

These proposals hurt my soul. Terrible. I would rather go the opposite route and try and do what Ainge did when forming the big 3, bringing in complimentary vets in exchange for our young talent.

That would make sense if we had young talent.

Then add some of the young guys to someone like Taj and a pick. That would hurt less than giving away Jimmy Butler for Bender and TJ friggin Warren.

[veji1]

long story short. you save YEARS when you trade your only real valuable piece who is 27, if you want a real chance at a title.

if you dont trade him, you have to get lucky in free agency. but thats highly unlikely. if you stick with butler and cant find any other stars in their prime (highly likely) you are wasting 5 years or more beeing mediocre. with multiple young prospects (the return for butler and your own picks that will rise in draftboards) you increase your chances for more stars at once.

there are no guarantees either way, but the chances are better with a rebuild

Long story short this is completely wrong...

You don't save years when you trade your only valuable piece who is 27... you just admit that you didn't succeed in your retool and have to go for the rebuild... but you ALWAYS try the retool first. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Do you see Portland trading away Lillard when Aldridge leaves ? no, they try to retool around him and build a new group.

You can say the FO messed the rebuild, that's perferctly legitimate, but you have to give it a shot before moving on. Otherwise you are just plain bonkers.

how does it work for portland? they messed it up in free agency and are stuck in mediocrity for years. they luckily have some other pieces besides lillard, so they can trade mccollum or harkless first to utilize them.

That's not the point. Having a legit star is hard in this league, when you have one you don't just dump it. You trade it away when the risks are becoming too big of losing if for naught, but you don't just trade it away in the hopes to build something better. As long as that star is there you try to build around it. The point isn't that they should have traded Butler it's that they are not making a good job of the rebuild : why sign Rondo and not try to get Hill for example, etc...

[biggestbullsfan]

Wasnt the point of us not trading Butler last offseason, was because ownership didnt want a full rebuild, only a partial? Whats changed?

[digitaldropoff]

Wasnt the point of us not trading Butler last offseason, was because ownership didnt want a full rebuild, only a partial? Whats changed?

The retooling of Rondo and Wade don't appear to be working at all....there's always hope going into a new season, but after seeing what they have, they know they'll have to do the same thing next year with no guarantee of landing anyone.

[Gant]

Wasnt the point of us not trading Butler last offseason, was because ownership didnt want a full rebuild, only a partial? Whats changed?

The Front Office saw the result instead of imagined the result?

[molepharmer]

Wasnt the point of us not trading Butler last offseason, was because ownership didnt want a full rebuild, only a partial? Whats changed?

The main reason was because the offers were crap. That reason hasn't changed. They'll only trade Butler if the offers are just too good to pass up. His value most likely has gone up this season over what it was this summer.