Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[jnrjr79]

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Wade wants us to get better. I highly doubt we trade Butler if we do wade will probably leave too.

That's why dealing Butler this season doesn't make any sense. The Bulls are not going to piss off Wade by dealing Butler in order to tank for the future while he's on the roster. That's a move that they shouldn't even consider until the off-season. I've been saying that as long as Jimmy is on your roster, you need to go all in and maximize your opportunity to compete in the EC while he still has 3-4 great years left in him.

The thing with this, too, is there is a consideration beyond just pissing Wade off if he signs here because of Butler and then Butler is dealt. Wade signing here creates an air of legitimacy around the franchise from a free agency perspective. If Wade signs and then the team is blown up around him, the next max-level free agent the Bulls are pitching will see that, and it could deter them from signing. Chicago already lacks state tax or weather-related competitive advantages. All it has is market size and reputation. You better think before you jeopardize the latter.

[Poohdini1]

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Yea and then there's this. He's for sure leaving if we trade him. He sounds on edge today, seems pissed off here and sounds pissed off talking about Korver going to the Cavs saying the rich get richer and saying teams are just gifting them players. Must've had a bad day lol.

Wade is telling us he came here to play with Jimmy, why don't we understand our best selling point to other stars is keeping Butler.

We understand, it just seems the FO doesn't with his name constantly being in trade rumors. Seems like Jimmy is well liked among other players, add D Wade to that and it makes Chicago a great destination for FA's.

[Poohdini1]

Also no GM is taking Derozan over JB. You get a little more scoring but Jimmy washes him every where else. Playmaking and defense isn't even close.

[NecessaryEvil]

Can we get the rest of that Wade interview

[TheChad708]

I'd listen to something along the lines of Hayward and Favors.

[The Box Office]

Also no GM is taking Derozan over JB. You get a little more scoring but Jimmy washes him every where else. Playmaking and defense isn't even close.

Yup. Agreed. Butler kills him.

[fleet]

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Wade wants us to get better. I highly doubt we trade Butler if we do wade will probably leave too.

That's why dealing Butler this season doesn't make any sense. The Bulls are not going to piss off Wade by dealing Butler in order to tank for the future while he's on the roster. That's a move that they shouldn't even consider until the off-season. I've been saying that as long as Jimmy is on your roster, you need to go all in and maximize your opportunity to compete in the EC while he still has 3-4 great years left in him.

The thing with this, too, is there is a consideration beyond just pissing Wade off if he signs here because of Butler and then Butler is dealt. Wade signing here creates an air of legitimacy around the franchise from a free agency perspective. If Wade signs and then the team is blown up around him, the next max-level free agent the Bulls are pitching will see that, and it could deter them from signing. Chicago already lacks state tax or weather-related competitive advantages. All it has is market size and reputation. You better think before you jeopardize the latter.

The Bulls have never landed a prime elite guy, and they probably aren't kidding themselves anymore. And especially about this team. An old man, some enigmatic pieces, and Jimmy, not that attractive to elite FAs, going to a fringe playoffs team. If they have a plan for the long term future, I doubt they will let pie in the sky get in the way of it anymore. Yet, they never cease to amaze me so....

[Bulls03]

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Yea and then there's this. He's for sure leaving if we trade him. He sounds on edge today, seems pissed off here and sounds pissed off talking about Korver going to the Cavs saying the rich get richer and saying teams are just gifting them players. Must've had a bad day lol.

Wade is telling us he came here to play with Jimmy, why don't we understand our best selling point to other stars is keeping Butler.

Exactly! Guys want to play with both of them no matter what you say about age.

[Mech Engineer]

Ainge and GarPax seems like the unlikeliest deal makers ever..

Chris Mannix calls in to Toucher and Rich to addresses the rumors that the Celtics and Danny Ainge submitted a 'low-ball offer' for Cavs forward Kevin Love at the trade deadline.

“The Celtics are the kings of the low ball offer," Mannix said. "The executives I talk to across the league. The Celtics, they’ll try to pry an All-Star out with nothing more than the combination of David Lee and Jonas Jerebko.”

That said, Mannix does think the Celtics could be in line to land Love in the offseason.

“Barring a championship, Kevin Love is going to be on the move in Cleveland. It just isn’t working.”

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/mannix-cslove-ainge-king-low-ball-offers

I think it is the effect of that Celtics and Lakers myth that they own the league and everyone else need to make sure those two teams are taken care off. And, it has worked for those 2 teams with some lopsided trades in their favor.

[Bomba Navarro]

Also no GM is taking Derozan over JB. You get a little more scoring but Jimmy washes him every where else. Playmaking and defense isn't even close.

Even at scoring the only reason DeRozan scores more is because he shoots more. Wouldn't Butler get two more points per game if he shot four more times? Even if you count on a decrease in efficiency with a higher number of shots, it doesn't sound far-fetched to think Butler would get more than two points per game off those four extra shots. Heck, I think he'd do even better with the squad Toronto has.

[Jvaughn]

Did I miss something? People are saying we should trade Jimmy because he's not HOF player Scottie Pippen? I'll assume there's a big part of that argument I missed, and I'm just too lazy to find it.

You didn't miss anything. Unfortunately.

Did I miss something? People are saying we should trade Jimmy because he's not HOF player Scottie Pippen?

Yeah, kinda. Making the argument double bad is that he pretty much is prime Scottie Pippen this year. Not the identical player, of course, but of roughly similar value. Whatever claims apply to Jimmy apply to prime Scottie, too.

Well that's upsetting. I was hoping I missed a page or 2 of information that made that argument make sense. Wow.

[Ice Man]

Well that's upsetting. I was hoping I missed a page or 2 of information that made that argument make sense. Wow.

Eh, I was being flip. There are few arguments along those lines, but it's not the predominant belief. Don't know if there is a predominant belief, really. Varied opinions on this topic.

[drosestruts]

Is it just me or is the "trade best player on your team because there's no chance at winning" phenomenon stronger in Chicago than anywhere else? Is it because of the Cubs? I just don't get it. You peak at the OKC board, or Memphis board or other teams with star players who aren't top 3 seeds and you don't see such a strong presence of people advocating for moving Westbrook or Gasol because they'll never win and it's best to blow it up and start over.

In OKC and Memphis guys like Westbrook and Gasol seem much more cherished and loved than Butler does here in Chicago.

[MC3]

Is it just me or is the "trade best player on your team because there's no chance at winning" phenomenon stronger in Chicago than anywhere else? Is it because of the Cubs? I just don't get it. You peak at the OKC board, or Memphis board or other teams with star players who aren't top 3 seeds and you don't see such a strong presence of people advocating for moving Westbrook or Gasol because they'll never win and it's best to blow it up and start over.

In OKC and Memphis guys like Westbrook and Gasol seem much more cherished and loved than Butler does here in Chicago.

Westbrook is legit superstar. They have FO who can build a team around him. They have young talent and core to improve.

Gasol is not superstar. He is lvl Butler player. Their FO sucks in drafting and in FA. But I guess Grizzlies fans are satisfied with mediocrity. We are not. We have rings and baners.

[fleet]

“It's a big market. It's the Bulls. Our best player is in a rumor right now,” Wade said. “It doesn't matter. It's been a rumor every week but nothing has happened. It's a big market, something to talk about. A couple extra hits. It's the way the world works, the world we're in. Someone decided to write something with no merit. And if it does have merit, way to be first in line for the scoop.”

Dwyane Wade joked he’s never been involved in a trade rumor and stated there’s a few untouchables around the NBA.

“James Harden don't have a price, Russell Westbrook don't have a price, LeBron James don't have a price. Steph Curry don't…,” Wade said. “There's certain guys at this point, this moment, don't have a price. At some point, everybody got a price and depending on when. Dwyane Wade didn't have a price at one point.”

He didn’t forget his teammate, the guy who scored 52 one night and closed out the Cavaliers two nights later with a 14-point fourth quarter.

“In my mind, he doesn't. I think he's the cornerstone of this franchise,” Wade said. “He's the reason I'm here. The reason we're winning games, Not in my mind but it's not my decision.”



Although the two are obviously close and Wade being much more experienced than Butler, he said he wouldn’t give the rumors life by talking to his teammate about it.

“For what? Who wrote an article? Somebody wrote an article? Who cares. Like I said, you can control what you can control,” Wade said. “You can’t control somebody waking up one day and wanting to stir something up in Chicago and write an article.”

It’s the two-way street of the NBA, he believes.

“The only thing you can do is bring your butt in here and work, and if they call you and say, ‘Hey, you’ve been moved.’ Shake their hand and you say, ‘Thank you for everything,’ and you leave,” Wade said. “I always told my teammates, because you never know what’s going to happen in this league, you never know where you’re going to be, stay professional. Just like you have your opportunities in free agency and stuff like that to decide where you want to go, they have opportunities to move you. There’s nothing you can do about it. So don’t listen to it. It’s the time of the year where everybody’s name is being thrown in a hat, and most of it don’t even happen.’’

With the rumors being so prevalent from one thing to another, Hoiberg said he discusses it with his team at times.

“We talk a little but about it, but we don't spend a lot of time talking about it. But yeah, there are moments,” he said. “I'll say this. Going back to my days in the front office, you're always talking to other teams, you're always making calls. You talk about your roster, People throw things against the wall all the time.”

Hoiberg was an assistant GM with the Timberwolves for a short time before going to the college ranks at Iowa State.

“I was a guy that made a lot of calls. So you do that stuff all the time,” he said. “You do your due diligence on other teams and rosters and throw things out there; 99 percent of them have no legs and you move on, but that is the job. You do call every other team in the league and you talk. That's what that job's about.”

http://www.csnchicago.com/nba-jimmy-butler-bulls-trade-rumors-dwyane-wade-fred-hoiberg

[Mech Engineer]

Is it just me or is the "trade best player on your team because there's no chance at winning" phenomenon stronger in Chicago than anywhere else? Is it because of the Cubs? I just don't get it. You peak at the OKC board, or Memphis board or other teams with star players who aren't top 3 seeds and you don't see such a strong presence of people advocating for moving Westbrook or Gasol because they'll never win and it's best to blow it up and start over.

In OKC and Memphis guys like Westbrook and Gasol seem much more cherished and loved than Butler does here in Chicago.

Westbrook is legit superstar. They have FO who can build a team around him. They have young talent and core to improve.

Gasol is not superstar. He is lvl Butler player. Their FO sucks in drafting and in FA. But I guess Grizzlies fans are satisfied with mediocrity. We are not. We have rings and baners.

C'mon...OKC had 3 legit superstars and couldn't finish their job. They traded away Harden for average returns. And, then couldn't build a championship team with Westbrook and Durant in their prime. The Bulls can tank for 25 years and they are probably never going to get 3 players like Westbrook, Durant, Harden around the same age/time. And, they still didn't win anything like the Bulls haven't.

Westbrook also has an explosive style of play. He is prone to get injured anytime ....a ticking bomb in a sense. But, all that said, OKC is doing the right thing. They are building around him and maximizing his talent.

And, Westbrook has been around for 3 more years than Jimmy in the NBA and older than Jimmy...that's more mileage with all the deep runs the team had in the playoffs.

And, are Memphis fans some kind of inferior folks who are happy with mediocrity while Bulls fans grow up on a magic tree and their eyes can only watch Micheal Jordan ?

OKC is going nowhere with GS/Spurs around. If there is a team which needs to blow it up, it's them. They are a small market team. No free agent is going there and they have no other star around Westbrook either. They have a better young cast than the Bulls but nothing extraordinary without Westbrook.

[TimRobbins]

I would ask for both of Brooklyn's picks, a future Boston pick and the future Memphis pick from them. If they don't want that deal (which they won't) then they can pound salt.

Philly actually has the better package possible. Simmons or Embiid, a lottery pick and a non lottery pick.

I would get Brown, Bradley and the two Brooklyn Picks.

I think that's a fair deal considering Butler value and contract.

Boston could role with:
IT
Butler
Crowder
Johnson
Horford

That's enough to challenge the Cavs.

[Red Larrivee]

Is it just me or is the "trade best player on your team because there's no chance at winning" phenomenon stronger in Chicago than anywhere else? Is it because of the Cubs? I just don't get it. You peak at the OKC board, or Memphis board or other teams with star players who aren't top 3 seeds and you don't see such a strong presence of people advocating for moving Westbrook or Gasol because they'll never win and it's best to blow it up and start over.

In OKC and Memphis guys like Westbrook and Gasol seem much more cherished and loved than Butler does here in Chicago.

Westbrook is legit superstar. They have FO who can build a team around him. They have young talent and core to improve.

Gasol is not superstar. He is lvl Butler player. Their FO sucks in drafting and in FA. But I guess Grizzlies fans are satisfied with mediocrity. We are not. We have rings and baners.

That's seriously your logic?

[R3AL1TY]

What I've seen this year, whenever the 3pt shooters are hitting and/or Fred even puts out lineups with spacing, Jimmy does great.

I agree. It's been signs of this dating back last season too. I think it is safe to conclude he should be the main ball handler with at least 2 good shooters on the court.

[BigSleep333]

only other posibilities are lal17 or a 3 teamer where we would trade noel and you get the return for him, instead of the future pick...no simmons

both addons feels like massive overpays. i know you guys want to squeeze every drop out of the fruit , but philly is not close to win-now mode. would we, i think it would be possible

Addons are generally meaningless. I understand you wouldn't want to trade Simmons, but if I had to assign value to your guys on a 10 point scale, I would do it as follows. The reason guys like Okafor/Noel aren't worth anything is because they're not going to give you much impact now, and by the time they are productive (if that time comes), you have to pay them their full FMV on their 2nd contracts. They also have zero chance of outperforming a max deal the way Butler currently is and people hope Simmons/2017 first rounder will.

Now, you're right, Philly has no reason to want to trade Simmons for Butler because they're not in win now mode. Butler would immediately make them too good to obtain top 5 picks going forward but not good enough to break into that next tier unless Embiid really maximizes his potential going forward. This is why a team likely to deal for Butler is more in win now mode, which pretty much leaves the Celtics as the only team with the assets to maybe get it done.

Butler - 9 (and he's good enough on his own that your 2018 first round pick wouldn't be all that attractive).
Simmons - 8
2017 First Rounder - 7
Okafor - 1
Noel - 1
Luwawu - .5

come on... search up noels unique defensive statistics. pretty sure he has some of the rarest stl/blk combination at center-position. okafor is already one of the best postscorers in the league, as a 21 year old. if gou give them a 1 out of 10 on a value-scale they both will play forever in philly 10 mins per game. i woud be fine with 6-5 on that scale, but 1? u gotta be joking