Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[Stratmaster]

So called 'ISO' scorers are what tends to win NBA championships. At least before the era of superteams.

People would have called 06 Wade that too when he was dominating the 06 Finals.

It's not 2006...

[Rerisen]

So called 'ISO' scorers are what tends to win NBA championships. At least before the era of superteams.

People would have called 06 Wade that too when he was dominating the 06 Finals.

It's not 2006...

Huh? Yeah *Wade* is old now that doesn't mean Butler is.

[sco]

Was looking at AllStar voting so far - is it conceivable that Jimmy isn't an All-Star?

Voting Probables: Irving, Wade, LBJ, Antetokounmpo, Love

Since guys like Wade and Love could get voted on team - there is more competition for remaining 7 spots. Jimmy needs to compete with DeRozan, Thomas, Lowry, Wall, Anthony, Embiid, Porzingis, George and Whiteside

East Guards
1 Kyrie Irving (CLE) 543,030
2 Dwyane Wade (CHI) 278,052
3 DeMar DeRozan (TOR) 253,340
4 Isaiah Thomas (BOS) 193,297
5 Derrick Rose (NY) 129,924
6 Kyle Lowry (TOR) 128,940
7 John Wall (WAS) 87,360
8 Jeremy Lin (BKN) 59,562
9 Kemba Walker (CHA) 52,122
10 Avery Bradley (BOS) 32,822

East Forwards
1 LeBron James (CLE) 595,288
2 Giannis Antetokounmpo (MIL) 500,663
3 Kevin Love (CLE) 250,347
4 Joel Embiid (PHI) 221,984
5 Carmelo Anthony (NY) 189,817
6 Jimmy Butler (CHI) 189,066
7 Kristaps Porzingis (NY) 184,166
8 Paul George (IND) 138,332
9 Hassan Whiteside (MIA) 72,628
10 Jabari Parker (MIL) 64,141

[MisterRoy]

Rose shouldn't be on that list at all.


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[Ice Man]

Was looking at AllStar voting so far - is it conceivable that Jimmy isn't an All-Star?

Nope.

Guards

Irving
DeRozan
Thomas
Lowry
Wade

Wade is 2nd in voting, but coaches have half the vote this year. I figure they take him on sentiment as a backup but not as a starter. Of course, Kemba would be the better choice ... and he might make it. Or Wall. Or Beal.

Wow ... did you know that Otto Porter Jr. is 22nd in the NBA this year on plus/minus? Off topic, I know. But he's ahead of Blake Griffin.

Forwards

LBJ
Giannis
Love
Butler
MIllsap

Centers

Drummond
Whiteside

Unless Embiid wins the vote, in which case Embiid and Drummond.

[Rerisen]

Butler #NotSuperstar, #NotAll-Star, #NotMyStar

[sco]

Honestly, I'm done wanting Bulls to get individual accolades. I feel like it took the edge away from guys like Rose, Deng and Noah. I worry about Jimmy a little too with his Hollywoodness.

[Ice Man]

Jimmy for next two Brooklyn picks plus whatever needs to be done for salary match could work. The Nets currently have the worst record in basketball, and good chance they will be there next year too. I am on record against Jimmy trade for prospects as a general principle, but this could be two #1s, and #1s are somewhat different. Of course Ainge is thinking that too.

[JordansBulls]

Jimmy Butler right now is probably as good as peak Melo was.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Russell+Westbrook&player_id1_select=Russell+Westbrook&y1=2017&player_id1=westbru01&hint=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id2_select=Carmelo+Anthony&y2=2013&player_id2=anthoca01&hint=James+Harden&player_id3_select=James+Harden&y3=2017&player_id3=hardeja01&hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id4_select=Jimmy+Butler&y4=2017&player_id4=butleji01

[Ice Man]

Better, on that comparison. Scores 3 points less but with more efficiency. rebounds the same, almost double the assists, fewer turnover, and a better defender. Of course he's gotta do that all year.

Westbrook, man. Averaging a triple double per 36 and he's not getting there the cheap way on points, at 32.7. Man.

[HoopsterJones]

The best case scenario if Butler is traded is that they land top draft picks or a young player with potential.

1. Trade Butler for BKN 17, 18 pick.

2. Then it's time to tank hard and trade away guys for best possible value (Taj or Mirotic to Raptors for their 1st round 17 pick).

3. Bulls start fresh in the 2017 draft with at least first round picks (BKN, SAC, RAPS, own).

4. Run the young guys in 2018 and tank again. Now they have hopefully two high draft picks (BKN, own).

5. Fire FO and Fred, bring in a new regime. Develop players for two seasons and hopefully be near playoff contention again with savvy signings but leave plenty of cap room for the 20-21 season.

6. Land the big fish. Anthony Davis comes home. Hopefully some of the players acquired from the 17 or 18 draft develop into good to great players. This will be before those players sign their big deals too. Now a young core with a prime 27 year old AD will be a contender for at least 5 years especially with Lebron in his late years.

Yes it is a pipe dream, but it is the best case scenario if Butler is traded.

[digitaldropoff]

Jimmy Butler right now is probably as good as peak Melo was.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Russell+Westbrook&player_id1_select=Russell+Westbrook&y1=2017&player_id1=westbru01&hint=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id2_select=Carmelo+Anthony&y2=2013&player_id2=anthoca01&hint=James+Harden&player_id3_select=James+Harden&y3=2017&player_id3=hardeja01&hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id4_select=Jimmy+Butler&y4=2017&player_id4=butleji01

But...Melo forced the Knicks to unload all of their assets. As long as Jimmy doesn't do that, the Bulls should be able to get more. Which isn't saying much, as I don't think Denver got a really decent deal.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Was looking at AllStar voting so far - is it conceivable that Jimmy isn't an All-Star?

Voting Probables: Irving, Wade, LBJ, Antetokounmpo, Love

Since guys like Wade and Love could get voted on team - there is more competition for remaining 7 spots. Jimmy needs to compete with DeRozan, Thomas, Lowry, Wall, Anthony, Embiid, Porzingis, George and Whiteside

East Guards
1 Kyrie Irving (CLE) 543,030
2 Dwyane Wade (CHI) 278,052
3 DeMar DeRozan (TOR) 253,340
4 Isaiah Thomas (BOS) 193,297
5 Derrick Rose (NY) 129,924
6 Kyle Lowry (TOR) 128,940
7 John Wall (WAS) 87,360
8 Jeremy Lin (BKN) 59,562
9 Kemba Walker (CHA) 52,122
10 Avery Bradley (BOS) 32,822

East Forwards
1 LeBron James (CLE) 595,288
2 Giannis Antetokounmpo (MIL) 500,663
3 Kevin Love (CLE) 250,347
4 Joel Embiid (PHI) 221,984
5 Carmelo Anthony (NY) 189,817
6 Jimmy Butler (CHI) 189,066
7 Kristaps Porzingis (NY) 184,166
8 Paul George (IND) 138,332
9 Hassan Whiteside (MIA) 72,628
10 Jabari Parker (MIL) 64,141

Not really conceivable as far as I'm concerned. You figure that at least 5 forwards are going to make it. 2 starters and 3 reserves. Possibly even a fourth as a reserve. Jimmy is going to get the nod somewhere by the coaches.

[JordansBulls]

Jimmy Butler right now is probably as good as peak Melo was.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Russell+Westbrook&player_id1_select=Russell+Westbrook&y1=2017&player_id1=westbru01&hint=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id2_select=Carmelo+Anthony&y2=2013&player_id2=anthoca01&hint=James+Harden&player_id3_select=James+Harden&y3=2017&player_id3=hardeja01&hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id4_select=Jimmy+Butler&y4=2017&player_id4=butleji01

But...Melo forced the Knicks to unload all of their assets. As long as Jimmy doesn't do that, the Bulls should be able to get more. Which isn't saying much, as I don't think Denver got a really decent deal.

The point is you would be happy had drafted a Melo to the team and he has only been to one conference finals in 14 years. So why get rid of a Jimmy?

[Betta Bulleavit]

Was looking at AllStar voting so far - is it conceivable that Jimmy isn't an All-Star?

Nope.

Guards

Irving
DeRozan
Thomas
Lowry
Wade

Wade is 2nd in voting, but coaches have half the vote this year. I figure they take him on sentiment as a backup but not as a starter. Of course, Kemba would be the better choice ... and he might make it. Or Wall. Or Beal.

Wow ... did you know that Otto Porter Jr. is 22nd in the NBA this year on plus/minus? Off topic, I know. But he's ahead of Blake Griffin.

Forwards

LBJ
Giannis
Love
Butler
MIllsap

Centers

Drummond
Whiteside

Unless Embiid wins the vote, in which case Embiid and Drummond.

Good post. But, you don't necessarily have to have two centers. I don't know if Whiteside is liked enough to make the team. He still has a bit of a negative stigma around him. I think his spot could conceivably go to a guy like Kemba Walker. I could also see a guy like Paul George being selected over Milsap.

[Ice Man]

Good post. But, you don't necessarily have to have two centers. I don't know if Whiteside is liked enough to make the team. He still has a bit of a negative stigma around him. I think his spot could conceivably go to a guy like Kemba Walker. I could also see a guy like Paul George being selected over Milsap.

Agreed. When you got through the All Star rosters, East and West, the temptation is to choose few bigs. It's a wing/PG league right now. I mean, some of these wings are huge -- GIannis, Durant, LeBron -- but wings nevertheless.

[RedBulls23]

Was looking at AllStar voting so far - is it conceivable that Jimmy isn't an All-Star?

Voting Probables: Irving, Wade, LBJ, Antetokounmpo, Love

Since guys like Wade and Love could get voted on team - there is more competition for remaining 7 spots. Jimmy needs to compete with DeRozan, Thomas, Lowry, Wall, Anthony, Embiid, Porzingis, George and Whiteside

East Guards
1 Kyrie Irving (CLE) 543,030
2 Dwyane Wade (CHI) 278,052
3 DeMar DeRozan (TOR) 253,340
4 Isaiah Thomas (BOS) 193,297
5 Derrick Rose (NY) 129,924
6 Kyle Lowry (TOR) 128,940
7 John Wall (WAS) 87,360
8 Jeremy Lin (BKN) 59,562
9 Kemba Walker (CHA) 52,122
10 Avery Bradley (BOS) 32,822

East Forwards
1 LeBron James (CLE) 595,288
2 Giannis Antetokounmpo (MIL) 500,663
3 Kevin Love (CLE) 250,347
4 Joel Embiid (PHI) 221,984
5 Carmelo Anthony (NY) 189,817
6 Jimmy Butler (CHI) 189,066
7 Kristaps Porzingis (NY) 184,166
8 Paul George (IND) 138,332
9 Hassan Whiteside (MIA) 72,628
10 Jabari Parker (MIL) 64,141

No, because Jimmy is going to be an all-star. He's better than every single one of those players you listed that he would be competing against.

[GimmeDat]

It's looking ahead a bit so you never know how things develop, but the 2018 draft has two major bigs headlining it - Ayton and Bamba. Not far behind is Wendell Carter, whose a great big man prospect as well. Could also potentially be Harry Giles if he stays another year as well, who was projected to be the #1 prospect of this 2017 class before his latest injuries.

You can't plan a rebuild with specific prospects in mind, but given the nature of the Brooklyn picks, and the drafts in which they are conveyed, it seems you could get a formidable PG/C duo with them. Add in a wing like Brown, and all the excess picks, and a core starts to form pretty seamlessly.

In other words, you can go for BPA without getting in to a positional logjam like Philly did.

[RedBulls23]

Was looking at AllStar voting so far - is it conceivable that Jimmy isn't an All-Star?

Nope.

Guards

Irving
DeRozan
Thomas
Lowry
Wade

Wade is 2nd in voting, but coaches have half the vote this year. I figure they take him on sentiment as a backup but not as a starter. Of course, Kemba would be the better choice ... and he might make it. Or Wall. Or Beal.

Wow ... did you know that Otto Porter Jr. is 22nd in the NBA this year on plus/minus? Off topic, I know. But he's ahead of Blake Griffin.

Forwards

LBJ
Giannis
Love
Butler
MIllsap

Centers

Drummond
Whiteside

Unless Embiid wins the vote, in which case Embiid and Drummond.

Oh, is that getting incorporated this year?

I think it's the players and a panel of NBA media that get to vote in starters as well. Coaches pick the reserves, they always have.

[Ice Man]

It's looking ahead a bit so you never know how things develop, but the 2018 draft has two major bigs headlining it - Ayton and Bamba. Not far behind is Wendell Carter, whose a great big man prospect as well. Could also potentially be Harry Giles if he stays another year as well, who was projected to be the #1 prospect of this 2017 class before his latest injuries.

You can't plan a rebuild with specific prospects in mind, but given the nature of the Brooklyn picks, and the drafts in which they are conveyed, it seems you could get a formidable PG/C duo with them. Add in a wing like Brown, and all the excess picks, and a core starts to form pretty seamlessly.

In other words, you can go for BPA without getting in to a positional logjam like Philly did.

Yep. Depends on Brooklyn staying bad, and these prospects staying roughly on track, but both are likely. I put in another thread, Okafor DNP tonight, because Embiid and Noel each played. Now that is terrible.