Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[Red Larrivee]

It's looking ahead a bit so you never know how things develop, but the 2018 draft has two major bigs headlining it - Ayton and Bamba. Not far behind is Wendell Carter, whose a great big man prospect as well. Could also potentially be Harry Giles if he stays another year as well, who was projected to be the #1 prospect of this 2017 class before his latest injuries.

You can't plan a rebuild with specific prospects in mind, but given the nature of the Brooklyn picks, and the drafts in which they are conveyed, it seems you could get a formidable PG/C duo with them. Add in a wing like Brown, and all the excess picks, and a core starts to form pretty seamlessly.

In other words, you can go for BPA without getting in to a positional logjam like Philly did.

That's nice and all, but where's the next Kobe? Where's the next LeBron? This tanking dream doesn't work if the Bulls only wind up with a player of Butler's caliber or worse. The 2017 and 2018 classes may be the best classes in a while, but the one glaring flaw is that there isn't a clear cut franchise changer.

Remember when Kevin Durant and Greg Oden were coming out of school? They were considered once-in-a-lifetime prospects. Obviously, Oden didn't workout, but that's what you need to make it worthwhile: A once-in-a-lifetime prospect who lives up to his billing.

[Ice Man]

Oh, is that getting incorporated this year?

Yep. Fans get 50% of the vote for the starters, media 25%, players 25%.

[RedBulls23]

Oh, is that getting incorporated this year?

Yep. Fans get 50% of the vote for the starters, media 25%, players 25%.

Good...so that means ZaZa Pachulia won't be starting for the West.

[Red Larrivee]

Jimmy's age argument is silly. He's what 27-28 years old just like Harden and Westbrook. Secondly the Bulls are .500 and in the hunt for the playoffs. Didn't many people expect them to be a 40-45 win team after they got Wade. Nobody including the front office was under any impression that they would be this 50-55+ plus win two or three seed in the East.

So being break even right now can't be considered underperforming or justification for moving Butler no matter how many tank fans want it. Third this is the Bulls first time building around Butler. People bring up Harden and the Rockets who are playing well but does anybody seriously think their contenders? Is been shown before most recently with Lebron on the Cavs the first time around you can't have one guy basically be your offense.

Yeah, the age argument strikes me as weird too.

Butler just turned 27, so it's not like he's ancient. If he's as good as he's shown, then he can continue playing at a very high level for another 5-6 years. That's a lot of time to improve a team around him. Dirk Nowitzki didn't win a championship until age 32 and Paul Pierce was 30 when Boston won.

[RedBulls23]

It's looking ahead a bit so you never know how things develop, but the 2018 draft has two major bigs headlining it - Ayton and Bamba. Not far behind is Wendell Carter, whose a great big man prospect as well. Could also potentially be Harry Giles if he stays another year as well, who was projected to be the #1 prospect of this 2017 class before his latest injuries.

You can't plan a rebuild with specific prospects in mind, but given the nature of the Brooklyn picks, and the drafts in which they are conveyed, it seems you could get a formidable PG/C duo with them. Add in a wing like Brown, and all the excess picks, and a core starts to form pretty seamlessly.

In other words, you can go for BPA without getting in to a positional logjam like Philly did.

That's nice and all, but where's the next Kobe? Where's the next LeBron? This tanking dream doesn't work if the Bulls only wind up with a player of Butler's caliber or worse. The 2017 and 2018 classes may be the best classes in a while, but the one glaring flaw is that there isn't a clear cut franchise changer.

Remember when Kevin Durant and Greg Oden were coming out of school? They were considered once-in-a-lifetime prospects. Obviously, Oden didn't workout, but that's what you need to make it worthwhile: A once-in-a-lifetime prospect who lives up to his billing.

Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker were also considered franchise top 5 level talents, but don't look like that now. Jabari certainly looks like a all-star caliber player (maybe he becomes as good as Butler, but no certainty), but Wiggins is underwhelming to say the least.

[Ralphb07]

Kap and Nick Fridell were saying if Thibs called offering Wiggins and Dunn you'd have to do it. I agree with them that no way do you turn that deal down if Thibs was dumb enough to offer it.

[Ice Man]

Kap and Nick Fridell were saying if Thibs called offering Wiggins and Dunn you'd have to do it. I agree with them that no way do you turn that deal down if Thibs was dumb enough to offer it.

For Taj? I would do that, yeah. We'd be thin with bigs but sure, go ahead.

[RedBulls23]

Kap and Nick Fridell were saying if Thibs called offering Wiggins and Dunn you'd have to do it. I agree with them that no way do you turn that deal down if Thibs was dumb enough to offer it.

I would turn it down. I'm not impressed with either guy.

Seriously...Wiggins isn't the player people think he is. Dunn looks like he would be a starting level PG at best, but certainly not an all-star.

[Mbrahv0528]

Kap and Nick Fridell were saying if Thibs called offering Wiggins and Dunn you'd have to do it. I agree with them that no way do you turn that deal down if Thibs was dumb enough to offer it.

No thanks.

Sent from my 2PS64 using RealGM mobile app

[Red Larrivee]

Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker were also considered franchise top 5 level talents, but don't look like that now. Jabari certainly looks like a all-star caliber player (maybe he becomes as good as Butler, but no certainty), but Wiggins is underwhelming to say the least.

Yeah, Wiggins and Parker was hyped as the next LeBron/Melo type deal. Maybe they are, but as you said it definitely doesn't look like it. It would suck to tank for 7 years and the best thing we land is some Luol Deng or Ben Gordon level player. It's not worth the damage it does to your team's brand and culture. We'd have to start sending Benny to recruit at the airport again.

[Ralphb07]

It's looking ahead a bit so you never know how things develop, but the 2018 draft has two major bigs headlining it - Ayton and Bamba. Not far behind is Wendell Carter, whose a great big man prospect as well. Could also potentially be Harry Giles if he stays another year as well, who was projected to be the #1 prospect of this 2017 class before his latest injuries.

You can't plan a rebuild with specific prospects in mind, but given the nature of the Brooklyn picks, and the drafts in which they are conveyed, it seems you could get a formidable PG/C duo with them. Add in a wing like Brown, and all the excess picks, and a core starts to form pretty seamlessly.

In other words, you can go for BPA without getting in to a positional logjam like Philly did.

That's nice and all, but where's the next Kobe? Where's the next LeBron? This tanking dream doesn't work if the Bulls only wind up with a player of Butler's caliber or worse. The 2017 and 2018 classes may be the best classes in a while, but the one glaring flaw is that there isn't a clear cut franchise changer.

Remember when Kevin Durant and Greg Oden were coming out of school? They were considered once-in-a-lifetime prospects. Obviously, Oden didn't workout, but that's what you need to make it worthwhile: A once-in-a-lifetime prospect who lives up to his billing.

Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker were also considered franchise top 5 level talents, but don't look like that now. Jabari certainly looks like a all-star caliber player (maybe he becomes as good as Butler, but no certainty), but Wiggins is underwhelming to say the least.

How is Wiggins underwhelming? He is just 21 years of age and is scoring 21 points with a TS of .521. He is going to get even better. His career scoring is 19.9 points again under the age of 22. His TS is .530 under the age of 22. I say he sure is doing damn good and has more room to grow

[Red Larrivee]

Kap and Nick Fridell were saying if Thibs called offering Wiggins and Dunn you'd have to do it. I agree with them that no way do you turn that deal down if Thibs was dumb enough to offer it.

In the offseason, I would've done any Butler for Wiggins deal. Right now? Not even close.

Wiggins is going to be in his 4th year next season and so far his best year is a 16.5 PER year. Minnesota or some other team is going to be forced to max him out in 2018. Name value and upside alone will dictate that. It's going to be a skeptical move unless he ironically has a Butler breakout in Year 4.

[fleet]

Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker were also considered franchise top 5 level talents, but don't look like that now. Jabari certainly looks like a all-star caliber player (maybe he becomes as good as Butler, but no certainty), but Wiggins is underwhelming to say the least.

Yeah, Wiggins and Parker was hyped as the next LeBron/Melo type deal. Maybe they are, but as you said it definitely doesn't look like it. It would suck to tank for 7 years and the best thing we land is some Luol Deng or Ben Gordon level player. It's not worth the damage it does to your team's brand and culture. We'd have to start sending Benny to recruit at the airport again.

the Bulls culture and brand kick ass

The Bulls culture and brand actually was fired a couple seasons back

[Ralphb07]

Kap and Nick Fridell were saying if Thibs called offering Wiggins and Dunn you'd have to do it. I agree with them that no way do you turn that deal down if Thibs was dumb enough to offer it.

For Taj? I would do that, yeah. We'd be thin with bigs but sure, go ahead.

I think some people just over value players on their teams they root for. It's funny because even doing so you see people constantly killing Gar/pax for the lack of trades.

[Red Larrivee]

the Bulls culture and brand kick ass

Well, it was enough to get Dwyane Wade here.

I don't think Dwayne Wayne would've come here in the 1999-2004 era.

[fleet]

the Bulls culture and brand kick ass

Well, it was enough to get Dwyane Wade here.

I don't think Dwayne Wayne would've come here in the 1999-2004 era.

they didn't have to overpay an old downsided man or anything. Pat Riley threw a party the night the Bulls took him off the hook.

If you think the Bulls can attract prime white hot elite players at their peak, I'm still waiting

[GimmeDat]

It's looking ahead a bit so you never know how things develop, but the 2018 draft has two major bigs headlining it - Ayton and Bamba. Not far behind is Wendell Carter, whose a great big man prospect as well. Could also potentially be Harry Giles if he stays another year as well, who was projected to be the #1 prospect of this 2017 class before his latest injuries.

You can't plan a rebuild with specific prospects in mind, but given the nature of the Brooklyn picks, and the drafts in which they are conveyed, it seems you could get a formidable PG/C duo with them. Add in a wing like Brown, and all the excess picks, and a core starts to form pretty seamlessly.

In other words, you can go for BPA without getting in to a positional logjam like Philly did.

That's nice and all, but where's the next Kobe? Where's the next LeBron? This tanking dream doesn't work if the Bulls only wind up with a player of Butler's caliber or worse. The 2017 and 2018 classes may be the best classes in a while, but the one glaring flaw is that there isn't a clear cut franchise changer.

Remember when Kevin Durant and Greg Oden were coming out of school? They were considered once-in-a-lifetime prospects. Obviously, Oden didn't workout, but that's what you need to make it worthwhile: A once-in-a-lifetime prospect who lives up to his billing.

If it was a once in a life time prospect, they obviously wouldn't be on the table. You simply cannot expect a Butler level prospect in return. It's about building a young core, with potential to hit on a star, and then moving forward with assets and cap flexiblity. It's not about being able to supplant Butler with a similar franchise talent.

[Ice Man]

I think some people just over value players on their teams they root for. It's funny because even doing so you see people constantly killing Gar/pax for the lack of trades.

You're not green fonting, then? Hmmm. Don't know how to answer that. I guess I would say, that if somebody is overvaluing their own team, it would be the guys who want to send the 2nd/3rd best player on a bad team plus a rookie bench guy for a Top Ten player. Can we send our 2nd/3rd best guy and Val for Cousins? I would like to do that.

Yeah I get that Wiggins is young, he does score a lot, but peripherals are bad and he's not better this year than he was last year. I think the odds are pretty high he is what he is.

[RedBulls23]

That's nice and all, but where's the next Kobe? Where's the next LeBron? This tanking dream doesn't work if the Bulls only wind up with a player of Butler's caliber or worse. The 2017 and 2018 classes may be the best classes in a while, but the one glaring flaw is that there isn't a clear cut franchise changer.

Remember when Kevin Durant and Greg Oden were coming out of school? They were considered once-in-a-lifetime prospects. Obviously, Oden didn't workout, but that's what you need to make it worthwhile: A once-in-a-lifetime prospect who lives up to his billing.

Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker were also considered franchise top 5 level talents, but don't look like that now. Jabari certainly looks like a all-star caliber player (maybe he becomes as good as Butler, but no certainty), but Wiggins is underwhelming to say the least.

How is Wiggins underwhelming? He is just 21 years of age and is scoring 21 points with a TS of .521. He is going to get even better. His career scoring is 19.9 points again under the age of 22. His TS is .530 under the age of 22. I say he sure is doing damn good and has more room to grow

He really hasn't improved in the 3 years he's been in the league. His scoring has gone up, but that's because of volume.

You talk to Wolves fans, and they say how they prefer Levine over him.

He's not lived up to the hype and I just don't think he's going to be a superstar. Probably more in the relm of a guy like Rudy Gay, maybe a little better.

[Red Larrivee]

they didn't have to overpay an old downsided man or anything. Pat Riley threw a party the night the Bulls took him off the hook.

If you think the Bulls can attract prime white hot elite players at their peak, I'm still waiting

There's clearly a better chance of attracting anyone than there is after you spend most of the decade getting your ass kicked.