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Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#961 » by the ultimates » Sun Jan 8, 2017 12:33 am

RedBulls83 wrote:I'm trying to think if a top 10 player in the modern salary/lux cap era that has ever been traded, when he didn't even want to be traded? Like when he's committed to the franchise and wants to win here.

Leave it to our FO to let something like this keep lingering too. :noway:


Could the front office stop it from lingering though? Look at the rumors around Cousins in Sacramento every year. There has never been any indication that coach killer Cousins has ever wanted out of Sacramento or that the Kings want to trade him. Yet after every technical foul, every rant against the media you see the same rumors and articles about the Kings trading or needing to trade him.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#962 » by RedBulls23 » Sun Jan 8, 2017 12:52 am

tong po wrote:
RedBulls83 wrote:I'm trying to think if a top 10 player in the modern salary/lux cap era that has ever been traded, when he didn't even want to be traded? Like when he's committed to the franchise and wants to win here.

Leave it to our FO to let something like this keep lingering too. :noway:

Kevin Garnett. Jason Kidd.

Pretty sure KG was on board with the trade to the Celtics.

Kidd might be right, but he kind of jumped around quite a bit for a player of his caliber. Plus I think it was toxic relationship issues with coaches or the FO that got him traded.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#963 » by Leslie Forman » Sun Jan 8, 2017 1:02 am

RedBulls83 wrote:
tong po wrote:
RedBulls83 wrote:I'm trying to think if a top 10 player in the modern salary/lux cap era that has ever been traded, when he didn't even want to be traded? Like when he's committed to the franchise and wants to win here.

Leave it to our FO to let something like this keep lingering too. :noway:

Kevin Garnett. Jason Kidd.

Pretty sure KG was on board with the trade to the Celtics.

Kidd might be right, but he kind of jumped around quite a bit for a player of his caliber. Plus I think it was toxic relationship issues with coaches or the FO that got him traded.

If Minnesota had told KG they were never going to trade him and they wanted to keep him he'd have been perfectly fine with that too.

Really, I think that would have been the case with Deron Williams as well.

Kidd was traded because he slapped his wife and that was really it.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - PG: 24 - KC, FO rebuffed calls - asking price high 

Post#964 » by Jvaughn » Sun Jan 8, 2017 1:50 am

Jimako10 wrote:
Bomba Navarro wrote:
Read on Twitter


Seems like a lot of teams are deciding whether to be buyers or seller at this point. Wonder what Gar is doing right now.......


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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#965 » by dice » Sun Jan 8, 2017 4:38 am

tong po wrote:
RedBulls83 wrote:
tong po wrote:Kevin Garnett. Jason Kidd.

Pretty sure KG was on board with the trade to the Celtics.

Kidd might be right, but he kind of jumped around quite a bit for a player of his caliber. Plus I think it was toxic relationship issues with coaches or the FO that got him traded.

If Minnesota had told KG they were never going to trade him and they wanted to keep him he'd have been perfectly fine with that too.

he wanted the trade. he was passing his prime and they were planning to rebuild
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#966 » by dice » Sun Jan 8, 2017 5:07 am

Chitownbulls wrote:If we trade Butler...I want Julius "The Next Draymond Green/Zach Randolph" Randle, DAngelo "20yrs old, Superstar Upside" Russell and Brandon "#2 pick" Ingram. These guys will be running the league in 2-3 years when THEY ARE STILL ONLY 23-24 YEARS OLD. Plus with the NEW CBA, its easier to keep your players.

randle is the only one that has given any indication whatsoever that he can be an all-star
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#967 » by dice » Sun Jan 8, 2017 5:37 am

Payt10 wrote:What would it take to get Gallinari or Wilson Chandler here?

why would we be remotely interested in wilson chandler? there are 6 or 7 players on the nuggets i'd rather have. and they're a bad team!
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#968 » by Payt10 » Sun Jan 8, 2017 5:39 am

dice wrote:
Payt10 wrote:What would it take to get Gallinari or Wilson Chandler here?

why would we be remotely interested in wilson chandler? there are 6 or 7 players on the nuggets i'd rather have. and they're a bad team!

Because he's an athletic wing who can score the ball and defend at an adequate level.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#969 » by GimmeDat » Sun Jan 8, 2017 5:40 am

I really like Chandler - that said, SF is the least of our needs.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#970 » by Payt10 » Sun Jan 8, 2017 5:50 am

GimmeDat wrote:I really like Chandler - that said, SF is the least of our needs.

I agree, but having another reliable wing out there to spar Butler and Wade from having to exert so much energy is not a bad thing.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#971 » by dice » Sun Jan 8, 2017 5:50 am

Payt10 wrote:
dice wrote:
Payt10 wrote:What would it take to get Gallinari or Wilson Chandler here?

why would we be remotely interested in wilson chandler? there are 6 or 7 players on the nuggets i'd rather have. and they're a bad team!

Because he's an athletic wing who can score the ball and defend at an adequate level.

he's a mediocre defender and inefficient scorer. i don't give a damn how athletic he is if it doesn't help him be a better basketball player
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#972 » by dice » Sun Jan 8, 2017 5:53 am

Payt10 wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:I really like Chandler - that said, SF is the least of our needs.

I agree, but having another reliable wing out there to spar Butler and Wade from having to exert so much energy is not a bad thing.

and have him defend SGs? 'cause we know dougie can't handle that
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#973 » by Payt10 » Sun Jan 8, 2017 5:57 am

dice wrote:
Payt10 wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:I really like Chandler - that said, SF is the least of our needs.

I agree, but having another reliable wing out there to spar Butler and Wade from having to exert so much energy is not a bad thing.

and have him defend SGs? 'cause we know dougie can't handle that

Depends on rotations. I'm still a fan of moving Doug to the 4 for large stretches in hopes that it could take some pressure off of him on defense from having to defend in space so much. Fred hasn't been willing to test that theory out yet. Might not be great for rebounding, though.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#974 » by Jeffster81 » Sun Jan 8, 2017 7:30 am

Of course the Bulls are not shopping Butler, they absolutely love being stuck in neutral. Not good enough to be a contender, but not bad enough to be in contention to drafting elite talent. Apathy at it's finest.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#975 » by kurtatx » Sun Jan 8, 2017 8:57 am

Jeffster81 wrote:Of course the Bulls are not shopping Butler, they absolutely love being stuck in neutral. Not good enough to be a contender, but not bad enough to be in contention to drafting elite talent. Apathy at it's finest.

Keeping Butler isn't the Bulls' problem, it's the inability to draft the right players. You can cry about being "stuck in neutral" all you want, but as long as LeBron is in the East, the Bulls are going to struggle.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#976 » by Chitownbulls » Sun Jan 8, 2017 2:14 pm

dice wrote:
Chitownbulls wrote:If we trade Butler...I want Julius "The Next Draymond Green/Zach Randolph" Randle, DAngelo "20yrs old, Superstar Upside" Russell and Brandon "#2 pick" Ingram. These guys will be running the league in 2-3 years when THEY ARE STILL ONLY 23-24 YEARS OLD. Plus with the NEW CBA, its easier to keep your players.

randle is the only one that has given any indication whatsoever that he can be an all-star


Russel is a future star in this league. Hes 20-21 yrs old...in 3-4years he will be 1 of the best PGs in the league. Ingram has huge upside as well.
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Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

Post#977 » by Chitownbulls » Sun Jan 8, 2017 2:15 pm

    dice wrote:
    Payt10 wrote:What would it take to get Gallinari or Wilson Chandler here?

    why would we be remotely interested in wilson chandler? there are 6 or 7 players on the nuggets i'd rather have. and they're a bad team!


    Wilson Chandler is 1 of Denvers top 3 players....guy gets buckets...plays and guards 3 positions too.
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    Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

    Post#978 » by pipfan » Sun Jan 8, 2017 3:18 pm

    I suggested WChandler a while ago, and play a big lineup, with Butler/Wade handling the ball.
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    Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

    Post#979 » by chitowndish » Sun Jan 8, 2017 3:53 pm

    To me the big question with Butler is he wants to be the main guy but is he good enough to lead them to a championship. I'd say this year he earned the right for us to give it a shot, with what he's showing I think you have to see what happens.

    It's a big change though like I don't think a fast paced ball movement team suits what he wants to do at all. Everything good that's come to Jimmy is because of his improvement as an isolation scorer. That's what took him from lock down defender to max player. Problem is what we need is we need a grind it out tough defense, Butler dominates the offense, clear the paint out and surround him with shooters so he can penetrate or post and kick out. Give him a good #2 that can create a shot to take pressure off, Wade is probably pretty good for this but his skills are really similar to Butler so that is far from perfect. It would be really nice to have a good defender that is a good shooter that can get their shot off but Wade is still pretty good in this role so wouldn't really mind keeping him around either. I think Rondo has to go, Wade I think could be improved upon fit wise but I'd be fine with keeping him around too he does fit that safety valve role, defensive shooting good distributer PG like a Duhon type and if Mirotic can get his defensive game together and get his offense on track he'd be a nice fit. I think that can be a viable strategy. Someone to move the ball and get out of the way so Butler gets his usage but can defend and be a viable 3pt threat, shooters to keep the paint open and provide outlets for Butler, 2nd banana that can create (jump) shots and defend, strong D and rebounding to keep the games close for Jimmy to take over in the 4th. To me that seems like the team that suits Jimmy but it's pretty much the opposite of what we've been trying to build.

    Big shift, I think we have to get rid of Gar, hire a GM, fire Hoiberg and let the new GM hire their coach and start to build a team like I describe above around Butler. Is Butler going to want to wait for this? I kind of think we have a decent shot because he really wants this to be his team so if they involve him in the process he can have his imprint on of all of it which I think this is exactly what he wants. So I say take your shot with Butler and see what happens. Probably takes 2-3 years to do this stuff but I think you take the chance.
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    Re: Butler trade rumor - Marc Stein PG: 47, Bulls not shopping Butler 

    Post#980 » by Ice Man » Sun Jan 8, 2017 4:01 pm

    chitowndish wrote:To me the big question with Butler is he wants to be the main guy but I'm not sure if he's good enough offensively to carry a team. He seems to have a big need to do that though.


    He has had a big need being on a team where he has been the best player, and the team lost games because guys worse than him had the ball more often. Sign LeBron, and I bet he'll happily be #2, competing for the NBA title.

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