PG: Raptors, Jimmy Butler is your FATHER!!!

[7ucchini]

Can't believe people think Wade played well, I bet if we lose it's a different story...I thought he was terrible

Him working over the refs after every single call is fantastic alone. I hated it when he was with Miami, but I love his influence over the refs now...and when the playoffs start, refs favoring stars, with stars getting preferential treatment, it all goes up a notch.

[Stratmaster]

I'm not sure he would. He doesn't play defense anymore and he offers little to nothing on offense because you don't have to guard a player who can't shoot on the perimeter.

but the guy they replaced him with can't shoot on the perimeter either...

That may be true, but Rondo can't shoot anywhere. That's the problem, really. He's not an offensive threat.

We all got a little excited about MCW's energy. I think he can be a decent piece off the bench but (IMHO) he has no more business starting at PG on this team than Rondo does.

I'm about ready for them to just start Wade, Butler, McD, Taj and Rolo and then see if niko can find himself in a go-to scorer role on the 2nd team. we keep saying they need to start niko to spread the floor, but if you don't have a starting PG, and you are going to put the ball in wade and Butler's hands anyway...Doug serves the same purpose and allows you to keep Taj on the floor for defense.

At any rate, all of the consternation over lineups just tells you that Fred has had a significant challenge to overcome this season. He looks like he may be figuring some of it out...at least as well as you possibly can with no PG and 2 ball dominant wings.

[Stratmaster]

Now if Jimmy could keep playing like this, and with Rondo out, few others could step up, Bulls could still end up fighting for that 2-4 seed area, but its a big uphill task.

Odds are against this team making the playoffs. Jimmy has played 67, 65, and 67 games for the past 3 years. Pretty good chance he gets another 15 game ding, and the Bulls go 3-12 in his absence.

If i were a betting man, and the bet offer was yes or no on the Bulls making the playoffs, i would bet a pretty good sum on yes. Even if Butler sits 15 games, Wade will keep the Bulls playing .500. Wade is deferring right now. He can still be an impact player as a go-to guy if he has to be and he is the same type of player offensively as Butler.

now...if Wade and Butler get dinged at the same time...that 3-12 would be the likely result.

[NZB2323]

The superstar talk is all subjective, obviously. My criteria is simple: Can he be the best player on a championship team? My answer before the season on Jimmy was no; My answer now is I don't think so, but Jimmy is doing everything he can to prove that he can.

The biggest thing that Jimmy needs to prove is can he find ways to score efficiently against great defenses and individual defenders? Everytime he goes up against the likes of Kawhi Leonard and the Greek Freak he just doesn't look like he's in their same class at times. I think part of the problem is the roster. It's easier to hone in on guys when you aren't scared of anybody else.

In general, you are correct. Jimmy is probably not a "best player on a title team" type superstar.

Let's just be honest though. There have been 20 or so humans in history who fit that bill at their very peak. That's the bar you are setting. Guys like GA, KAT, etc. aren't it either. Unless you have a good plan for getting the next Lebron, Kobe, MJ, etc. then what do you do?

Jimmy is a classic second tier guy. Those guys generally only win with a great roster around them and fantastic coaching.

Our best bet is the 2011 Mavericks model. Not good odds, but better than thinking we'll draft the next MJ or LeBron.

Our best bet is to pair Jimmy with another star, which we'll have cap space to get. Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, Demarcus Cousins, Paul George, Chris Paul, Russel Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Lebron James, Chris Bosh, etc. will all be recruited by Butler and Wade.

Also, IMHO we should stop arguing about the superstar label because it's subjective. Was Billups a superstar in 2004? Was Kawahi a superstar in 2013?

[Ice Man]

We all got a little excited about MCW's energy. I think he can be a decent piece off the bench but (IMHO) he has no more business starting at PG on this team than Rondo does.

Agreed. He's an awful PG -- it's hard to believe that he was ROY playing that position. Dribbles alright, but a crappy decision maker and shooter. Easy to like the guy given his energy & enthusiasm, he defends well, and he's good in the open court. But he's a terrible half court player on offense. Although we could post him up more, that is his one offensive strength in the half court.

[Rerisen]

Our best bet is to pair Jimmy with another star, which we'll have cap space to get. Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, Demarcus Cousins, Paul George, Chris Paul, Russel Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Lebron James, Chris Bosh, etc. will all be recruited by Butler and Wade.

Also, IMHO we should stop arguing about the superstar label because it's subjective. Was Billups a superstar in 2004? Was Kawahi a superstar in 2013?

Of course if we can get another star.

I was referencing more the discussion about whether you need a Top 3 player to win a title, Dirk wasn't considered that in 2011, at least prior the playoffs, just generally somewhere in the Top 10, which is where Jimmy is now.

[RememberLu]

Anthony Davis won't be available until 2020. By which time Jimmy will be 30 years old. DeMarcus Cousins looks like he'll be locked up by the Kings long term. I was an advocate of trading for him since 2 years ago but it seems like the Kings have a deathgrip on him, the bastards. Carmelo Anthony is over the hill, do not want.

CP3, Blake Griffin and Chris Bosh seem like the most realistic targets to me. I'd love to have Bosh, always been a fan of his both on and off the court. But his health is a big concern

[Mech Engineer]

Our best bet is to pair Jimmy with another star, which we'll have cap space to get. Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, Demarcus Cousins, Paul George, Chris Paul, Russel Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Lebron James, Chris Bosh, etc. will all be recruited by Butler and Wade.

Also, IMHO we should stop arguing about the superstar label because it's subjective. Was Billups a superstar in 2004? Was Kawahi a superstar in 2013?

Of course if we can get another star.

I was referencing more the discussion about whether you need a Top 3 player to win a title, Dirk wasn't considered that in 2011, at least prior the playoffs, just generally somewhere in the Top 10, which is where Jimmy is now.

Ideally, the Bulls need to get a wing or a big who is a star type. But, waiting for those guys listed like AD, Griffin, Cousins etc...is not a great idea. It is fantasy. First of all, the Bulls don't have assets and even having assets don't help. Look at Boston...they are supposed to have all kinds of assets but nobody is giving them anyone of those guys listed.

The Bulls have to be creative. You can't sign those guys as free agents either. They command too much money for the Bulls to give them 25-30 million and have any type of decent roster around them. You spend 30 million on Paul. You are going nowhere without a great supporting cast. And, time is limited with him. CP3/Blake are guys you add on a roster like Boston or Toronto where you need one more piece to take them to the next tier.

Even if Jimmy is at Durant level, you need to get a Westbrook, then a whole lot of pieces and still they couldn't beat GS. It really is a catch-22 situation. If you get good young guys, you still won't win with them because they don't have the playoff experience. You get old vets, you have only a few years and everything has to click. It is an iterative process.

This is where GarPax have screwed up. I believe if the Bulls had even 75% of Boston's assets, a star would be more attracted to come to the Bulls than Boston because of Jimmy. They have lost assets/drafted badly and have taken multiple steps back from 2012-14.

[Ice Man]

The Bulls have won three of their past 6 games because Butler imitated prime GOAT having a good night -

Brooklyn +2
40/11/4

Charlotte +7
52/12/6

Raps +5
42/10/5

For perspective, Scottie had about half a dozen games like that in his breakout 93-94 season, although never with 40 points, as his season high was 39. But 30+ points with big peripherals. However, the Bulls either lost those games or won in blowouts.

That makes three wins in 6 games because the team's best player did not play like a mere All Star. An All Star performance, say 22/5/5, would have lost those games.

Special times these.

[Ice Man]

I was referencing more the discussion about whether you need a Top 3 player to win a title, Dirk wasn't considered that in 2011, at least prior the playoffs, just generally somewhere in the Top 10, which is where Jimmy is now.

Kawhi Leonard received no votes for 2013 MVP, meaning that he finished behind Ty Lawson and David Lee.

[MC3]

Imagine if we had him in Tora Bora...

[DarthDiggler69]

Just noticed Niko's high arch on his shot is back, thats what helped him shoot a high % 2nd half last season. Hopefully his hot streak comes back

[kurtatx]

I was referencing more the discussion about whether you need a Top 3 player to win a title, Dirk wasn't considered that in 2011, at least prior the playoffs, just generally somewhere in the Top 10, which is where Jimmy is now.

Kawhi Leonard received no votes for 2013 MVP, meaning that he finished behind Ty Lawson and David Lee.

While I understand what you are saying, it's the Spurs. That team plays a brand of basketball that 1) he had a cast of All-Stars and HOFers and 2) People often don't respect (Not exciting) and by that logic it would make sense Leonard gets no MVP votes. The NBA has just never gotten the Spurs.

[Rerisen]

While I understand what you are saying, it's the Spurs. That team plays a brand of basketball that 1) he had a cast of All-Stars and HOFers and 2) People often don't respect (Not exciting) and by that logic it would make sense Leonard gets no MVP votes. The NBA has just never gotten the Spurs.

Well also statistically during the 2014 season Leonard was not close to the top player, with only a 19.4 PER and .193 WS/48.

This year he should get consideration, and this year he and Butler have almost identical advanced stats.

[fleet]

looks like the team has perked up about when MCW came back, and Fred stopped shooting the team in the foot with bad rotations/lineups.

Anecdotally, it feels like the rebounding has been better. That was a big part of their winning formula too.

[johnnyvann840]

Read on Twitter

Very odd as it seems like most of the time both Wade and Butler are on the court McD just stands in the corner, last night being the exception.

The point is that Doug cannot be left alone and teams know this. He makes Jimmy and Wade more effective by opening up space. Niko does the same and they are both learning where to drift to. With Rondo, we were literally playing 4 on 5 and even worse, he would pass up a layup free 2 gimme just to try for another assist. Teams would sag so far off of him that they did two things they clogged the middle and they cut off any passing lanes.

Rather than start Niko over Taj, I would prefer to start them both. That is our best frontcourt We lose a little size but who gives a F... rather have the speed to guard PnR and Taj is a good enough rim protector.. Then you have a shooter in the front court and you start Wade at PG and Jimmy back at the 2 and then you can start Dougie.. and have two shooters.

Wade, Jimmy, Doug, Niko, Taj... that is our best lineup and can matchup with really any team regardless of their C and you always have Rolo in case they throw a giant out there.. but that is rare anymore and you can beat it with speed. .. you bring both MCW and Rolo off the bench and stagger the lineups so we always have balance... Always have shooting and always have a line up that can defend PnR.

[johnnyvann840]

Anthony Davis won't be available until 2020. By which time Jimmy will be 30 years old...................

PERFECT....

If Jimmy is 30, he is in his absolute prime (we hope, barring injuries)... AD would be a seasoned vet and be ready to win it all.

People need to stop acting like Jimmy has some short window. We have at least 5-6 years of prime Jimmy. He should be a superstar for the next 6 years.

[johnnyvann840]

looks like the team has perked up about when MCW came back, and Fred stopped shooting the team in the foot with bad rotations/lineups.

Anecdotally, it feels like the rebounding has been better. That was a big part of their winning formula too.

and that coincided with Rondo getting cut out of the picture entirely. Seems like MCW on the floor and Rondo off was what this squad needed.

[RememberLu]

Anthony Davis won't be available until 2020. By which time Jimmy will be 30 years old...................

PERFECT....

If Jimmy is 30, he is in his absolute prime (we hope, barring injuries)... AD would be a seasoned vet and be ready to win it all.

People need to stop acting like Jimmy has some short window. We have at least 5-6 years of prime Jimmy. He should be a superstar for the next 6 years.

He's managed to remain remarkably (for a Bulls player) uninjured so far. Let's hope he's one of those guys like Lebron who's naturally resistant to injury.

[RakimAbdulJabar]

Can't believe people think Wade played well, I bet if we lose it's a different story...I thought he was terrible

Based On his shooting percentage? He had 20-4-7 and played great defense. The only knock was his shooting percentage.

I didn't think his defense was anything near as good as people are making out to be honest