Lonzo Ball

[Duke4life831]

I do think Ball's hype did get a little high. But I think that has a lot to do with a lot of people not watching enough of him.

I saw a lot of people early on saying they could draft Ball and play him off the ball and have him be a scorer and secondary facilitator. So then a lot of people see people say that then finally watch themselves and see Ball barely put up shots and seeing thats not his game at all so people go sour on him.

What exactly has Ball done for people to go sour on him? He's still putting up assists while not turning it over, still shooting lights out from 3, still playing great D. He still is the same great athlete he was earlier, still has the same great size. The only thing I can think of is UCLA lost to a really good Oregon team that finally has gotten healthy and they lost on a buzzer beater.

The only thing I can think of is he's a true pass first PG, we haven't seen that in a long time in an elite prospect and he has a different looking jumper.

that's essentially all it is I think. People weren't familiar with his game at all and when you say things like #1 pick or first PG off the board folks want somebody that does the pretty things on the court. They want a guy that scores 20 with his eyes closed. They want a guy that jumps out the gym and shoots 50/40/90 for the season. So when you haven't seen him play and you read the numbers (which a lot of people do) you find yourself wondering why he's getting the hype he gets.

"I didn't see him dunk on anybody"
"he didn't drop 30 like the other kid did"
"now that I see him he has the worst jumper I've ever seen in my life"
"Noooooooo wayyyyyyy he gets that off in the NBA. How is going to score 30 a night with that thing? I'll pass."

Yup and he's a pass first guy but doesn't do flashy passes so they don't make highlights. This guy is in the mold of Kidd and Nash, they're perfectly cool getting the win with 13 assists and only 5 FGAs. That's not flashy, but you're taking Kidd or Nash #1 in almost any draft.

I'll use the Philly draft thread for example. There are multiple people on there saying they should draft Ball to play off the ball because he has good 3 point #s. So other Philly fans go okay I'll watch this guy for the 1st time and see how good of a fit he would be next to Simmons. They then see a guy that could go 1 half putting 3 shots up and when they do see him shoot they see a jumper form like they've never seen before. So they probably automatically get turned off.

Then you just have the other fans that bash on guys like Kyrie or Lillard for being score 1st guys but then they see a guy like Ball that doesn't project to be a 20 point scorer and they don't think he can be a big impact player.

[Kolkmania]

Only for reactionary types like the Chad Fords.

Not really. I said from the get that Ball was overrated and he was getting hyped due to being a lower prospect that was having a hot start. He looks to max out at a super role player unlike the others

he was never a lower prospect though. in all honesty if the kid didn't shoot the ball so weird nobody would have anything legit alarming to say about him. Any of the other "complaints" or "weaknesses" about his game have been answered. Its the shot people can't get over. Got no real defense for the Free Throw shooting except to say that it's an anomaly for him. He's been around 80 percent any other time.

I'm sure he'll become a decent catch and shoot guy in the NBA, but his shot form is really hurting his pull-up game. The only way he's able to get it off is with a sideways stepback to the left. To me that's a legitimate constraint as a facilitator since defenders are able to sag off him while he's dribbling.

But I think we're on the same page since his first game. He'll be an instant contributor in the NBA. Not as a scorer, but as a facilitator, rebounder and team defender. I think a similar thing can be said about Josh Jackson, I'd place them in the same tier as of now, with Jackson the slight edge over Ball. Markelle Fultz, Dennis Smith jr. and Jayson Tatum are in my opinion potential #1 options on the offensive end in the NBA.

[Marcus]

Not really. I said from the get that Ball was overrated and he was getting hyped due to being a lower prospect that was having a hot start. He looks to max out at a super role player unlike the others

he was never a lower prospect though. in all honesty if the kid didn't shoot the ball so weird nobody would have anything legit alarming to say about him. Any of the other "complaints" or "weaknesses" about his game have been answered. Its the shot people can't get over. Got no real defense for the Free Throw shooting except to say that it's an anomaly for him. He's been around 80 percent any other time.

I'm sure he'll become a decent catch and shoot guy in the NBA, but his shot form is really hurting his pull-up game. The only way he's able to get it off is with a sideways stepback to the left. To me that's a legitimate constraint as a facilitator since defenders are able to sag off him while he's dribbling.

But I think we're on the same page since his first game. He'll be an instant contributor in the NBA. Not as a scorer, but as a facilitator, rebounder and team defender. I think a similar thing can be said about Josh Jackson, I'd place them in the same tier as of now, with Jackson the slight edge over Ball. Markelle Fultz, Dennis Smith jr. and Jayson Tatum are in my opinion potential #1 options on the offensive end in the NBA.

again, talking about him in the scoring aspect of his game is the wrong way to look at him as a contributor. We'll address it though, his pull game will be non existent in the league due to his form. he's going to need some sort of push shot or floater (which I think he can add) to keep bigs honest. Catch and shoot is not what you want his primary function to be BUT he hits at a clip that will keep a defense aware of his location on the floor. With that said he can attack closeouts when chances are presented and we know he can find a shooter or big for a score. He also moves extremely well without the ball which nets him points that way as well if you have a big that passes well from the post. People scoffed at his PnR ability but UCLA is running it more and Lonzo is still making things happen from it. Either attacking a big on a switch (which he probably needs to do more of for people to check that off the list) or drawing the defense and finding a roller, popper, or skip pass shooter, orrrrrr just making the right play and getting it to the swing man for the hockey assist. If bigs decide to sag in the league you just mentioned the counter to that which is the quick stepback. the release is quick and he's shown dumb range with it. Don't really see where that becomes the answer for long. If you force him strong hand then you allow the attack and as I mentioned earlier, floater, push shot, dumpoff or kick out. Again he's not an attack scoring PG. He'll pick his spots to do so and he's been money when he does. But if you want that each trip down you're not going to get it because he's not that guy.

Yeah before the season started I pegged Josh and DSJ as the day one put the ball in their hands and say go get me some buckets and I still feel that way. I think they're guys you can build around.

I said Lonzo isn't that type of player BUT you drop him onto a team with average talent, guys that can finish, and hit a open look and that team will be better because of him. I still feel that way and he's showing it on albeit a lower scale with the Bruins right now.

I said Fultz could be a primary but I feel like it will take some adjustment time for him in the league. don't think he'll be able to attack and impose will but he will figure out what he can and can't do at that level.

Tatum I said is going to look great in college because he's so skilled but will have an adjustment in the league as well because of the size, speed, and athleticism. I still also believe he can/will make the adjustment and be a focal point type of scorer in the league. What I am loving about watching Jayson this year though is with being around so much talent he gets to display his passing chops which I don't think he could do in high school and was questioned about him coming into the season. Once he gets an idea of where/when he can/will get his in the league he can become an offensive hub whether he's primary scorer or not.

[peachbucket]

I view Lonzo in the same way I view Steve Nash in that they both are savants with the ball in their hands that always make the correct pass and make everyone better. They both have physical limitations (albeit slightly different) and are limited as far as creating their own shots off the dribble. Another player that was like that in college was Kendall Marshall but his lack of athleticism killed his NBA chances. Steve Nash, in his prime, was one of the fastest players in the league and had a yo yo handle. To me, Ball is much closer to Nash speed/athleticism wise than he is to Marshall. He will need the right offensive system to maximize his potential, similar to Nash with the Suns, but in the right environment he may become the best point guard of the bunch.

Something tells me that he and the Danny Ainge are destined for each other on draft night.

[BillyKingGM]

I view Lonzo in the same way I view Steve Nash in that they both are savants with the ball in their hands that always make the correct pass and make everyone better. They both have physical limitations (albeit slightly different) and are limited as far as creating their own shots off the dribble. Another player that was like that in college was Kendall Marshall but his lack of athleticism killed his NBA chances. Steve Nash, in his prime, was one of the fastest players in the league and had a yo yo handle. To me, Ball is much closer to Nash speed/athleticism wise than he is to Marshall. He will need the right offensive system to maximize his potential, similar to Nash with the Suns, but in the right environment he may become the best point guard of the bunch.

Something tells me that he and the Danny Ainge are destined for each other on draft night.

I just opened this thread to bring up the Kendall Marshall comparison I have been mulling in my head the past few days. I think it's somewhat accurate, but I do think Ball seems to be a better scorer at this point -- but it's entirely possible his wonky ass jumper won't translate to the NBA (especially at NBA 3 point distance) and he could have a KM type floor. I loved him as a prospect coming into this year when he was ranked in the late lottery but his floor is low enough I wouldn't want to be the team that picks him in the top 5, not this year.

[doordoor123]

I view Lonzo in the same way I view Steve Nash in that they both are savants with the ball in their hands that always make the correct pass and make everyone better. They both have physical limitations (albeit slightly different) and are limited as far as creating their own shots off the dribble. Another player that was like that in college was Kendall Marshall but his lack of athleticism killed his NBA chances. Steve Nash, in his prime, was one of the fastest players in the league and had a yo yo handle. To me, Ball is much closer to Nash speed/athleticism wise than he is to Marshall. He will need the right offensive system to maximize his potential, similar to Nash with the Suns, but in the right environment he may become the best point guard of the bunch.

Something tells me that he and the Danny Ainge are destined for each other on draft night.

I just opened this thread to bring up the Kendall Marshall comparison I have been mulling in my head the past few days. I think it's somewhat accurate, but I do think Ball seems to be a better scorer at this point -- but it's entirely possible his wonky ass jumper won't translate to the NBA (especially at NBA 3 point distance) and he could have a KM type floor. I loved him as a prospect coming into this year when he was ranked in the late lottery but his floor is low enough I wouldn't want to be the team that picks him in the top 5, not this year.

Lonzo is such a Celtics pick. But before judging Ball, I want to see him in actual pick&roll situations. I really think this UCLA team limits him in terms of who he has around him.

[jrob23]

he was never a lower prospect though. in all honesty if the kid didn't shoot the ball so weird nobody would have anything legit alarming to say about him. Any of the other "complaints" or "weaknesses" about his game have been answered. Its the shot people can't get over. Got no real defense for the Free Throw shooting except to say that it's an anomaly for him. He's been around 80 percent any other time.

I'm sure he'll become a decent catch and shoot guy in the NBA, but his shot form is really hurting his pull-up game. The only way he's able to get it off is with a sideways stepback to the left. To me that's a legitimate constraint as a facilitator since defenders are able to sag off him while he's dribbling.

But I think we're on the same page since his first game. He'll be an instant contributor in the NBA. Not as a scorer, but as a facilitator, rebounder and team defender. I think a similar thing can be said about Josh Jackson, I'd place them in the same tier as of now, with Jackson the slight edge over Ball. Markelle Fultz, Dennis Smith jr. and Jayson Tatum are in my opinion potential #1 options on the offensive end in the NBA.

again, talking about him in the scoring aspect of his game is the wrong way to look at him as a contributor. We'll address it though, his pull game will be non existent in the league due to his form. he's going to need some sort of push shot or floater (which I think he can add) to keep bigs honest. Catch and shoot is not what you want his primary function to be BUT he hits at a clip that will keep a defense aware of his location on the floor. With that said he can attack closeouts when chances are presented and we know he can find a shooter or big for a score. He also moves extremely well without the ball which nets him points that way as well if you have a big that passes well from the post. People scoffed at his PnR ability but UCLA is running it more and Lonzo is still making things happen from it. Either attacking a big on a switch (which he probably needs to do more of for people to check that off the list) or drawing the defense and finding a roller, popper, or skip pass shooter, orrrrrr just making the right play and getting it to the swing man for the hockey assist. If bigs decide to sag in the league you just mentioned the counter to that which is the quick stepback. the release is quick and he's shown dumb range with it. Don't really see where that becomes the answer for long. If you force him strong hand then you allow the attack and as I mentioned earlier, floater, push shot, dumpoff or kick out. Again he's not an attack scoring PG. He'll pick his spots to do so and he's been money when he does. But if you want that each trip down you're not going to get it because he's not that guy.

Yeah before the season started I pegged Josh and DSJ as the day one put the ball in their hands and say go get me some buckets and I still feel that way. I think they're guys you can build around.

I said Lonzo isn't that type of player BUT you drop him onto a team with average talent, guys that can finish, and hit a open look and that team will be better because of him. I still feel that way and he's showing it on albeit a lower scale with the Bruins right now.

I said Fultz could be a primary but I feel like it will take some adjustment time for him in the league. don't think he'll be able to attack and impose will but he will figure out what he can and can't do at that level.

Tatum I said is going to look great in college because he's so skilled but will have an adjustment in the league as well because of the size, speed, and athleticism. I still also believe he can/will make the adjustment and be a focal point type of scorer in the league. What I am loving about watching Jayson this year though is with being around so much talent he gets to display his passing chops which I don't think he could do in high school and was questioned about him coming into the season. Once he gets an idea of where/when he can/will get his in the league he can become an offensive hub whether he's primary scorer or not.

He has excellent size/speed/athleticism for a SF so not sure why that would be a concern. It's mostly why he's such an elite prospect.

[Duke4life831]

I view Lonzo in the same way I view Steve Nash in that they both are savants with the ball in their hands that always make the correct pass and make everyone better. They both have physical limitations (albeit slightly different) and are limited as far as creating their own shots off the dribble. Another player that was like that in college was Kendall Marshall but his lack of athleticism killed his NBA chances. Steve Nash, in his prime, was one of the fastest players in the league and had a yo yo handle. To me, Ball is much closer to Nash speed/athleticism wise than he is to Marshall. He will need the right offensive system to maximize his potential, similar to Nash with the Suns, but in the right environment he may become the best point guard of the bunch.

Something tells me that he and the Danny Ainge are destined for each other on draft night.

I just opened this thread to bring up the Kendall Marshall comparison I have been mulling in my head the past few days. I think it's somewhat accurate, but I do think Ball seems to be a better scorer at this point -- but it's entirely possible his wonky ass jumper won't translate to the NBA (especially at NBA 3 point distance) and he could have a KM type floor. I loved him as a prospect coming into this year when he was ranked in the late lottery but his floor is low enough I wouldn't want to be the team that picks him in the top 5, not this year.

Ball is taller and much much quicker than Marshall. Marshall was a really good college PG but he couldn't make it in the NBA because he was just so freaking slow and not tall enough where they could maybe slide him to cover someone else. Kendall also wasn't really a threat at all to shoot or score in college, he averaged only 8 points a game as a Soph.

Lonzo is averaging almost 15 points a game, it's much more athletic and explosive than Marshall was. So they are very different type of players.

Will ask this again why wouldn't his jumper translate especially at the NBA 3 distance? Ball has shown he has the deepest range by far out of all the PGs. He has shown no issue getting his 3 point shot off at all even against legit NBA prospects and size like against UK or Oregon. So why wouldn't his 3 point shot translate? Because it looks different?

[BillyKingGM]

I view Lonzo in the same way I view Steve Nash in that they both are savants with the ball in their hands that always make the correct pass and make everyone better. They both have physical limitations (albeit slightly different) and are limited as far as creating their own shots off the dribble. Another player that was like that in college was Kendall Marshall but his lack of athleticism killed his NBA chances. Steve Nash, in his prime, was one of the fastest players in the league and had a yo yo handle. To me, Ball is much closer to Nash speed/athleticism wise than he is to Marshall. He will need the right offensive system to maximize his potential, similar to Nash with the Suns, but in the right environment he may become the best point guard of the bunch.

Something tells me that he and the Danny Ainge are destined for each other on draft night.

I just opened this thread to bring up the Kendall Marshall comparison I have been mulling in my head the past few days. I think it's somewhat accurate, but I do think Ball seems to be a better scorer at this point -- but it's entirely possible his wonky ass jumper won't translate to the NBA (especially at NBA 3 point distance) and he could have a KM type floor. I loved him as a prospect coming into this year when he was ranked in the late lottery but his floor is low enough I wouldn't want to be the team that picks him in the top 5, not this year.

Ball is taller and much much quicker than Marshall. Marshall was a really good college PG but he couldn't make it in the NBA because he was just so freaking slow and not tall enough where they could maybe slide him to cover someone else. Kendall also wasn't really a threat at all to shoot or score in college, he averaged only 8 points a game as a Soph.

Lonzo is averaging almost 15 points a game, it's much more athletic and explosive than Marshall was. So they are very different type of players.

Will ask this again why wouldn't his jumper translate especially at the NBA 3 distance? Ball has shown he has the deepest range by far out of all the PGs. He has shown no issue getting his 3 point shot off at all even against legit NBA prospects and size like against UK or Oregon. So why wouldn't his 3 point shot translate? Because it looks different?

I'm no shot doctor but it's still pretty surprising to me that he is shooting as well as he is with the mechanics on display. Maybe it works, but I'm expecting massive regression and maybe you'll see that this year, but I think you'll definitely see it in the NBA.

He is taller and more explosives and quicker than Kendall but he doesn't really use it much. He is hidden on defense and outside of transition scoring he doesn't get to the basket. His shown skill set is still basically what Marshall had shown up to this point, but with a bunch of lucky makes. That's just my worst case scenario based on what I've seen so far.

A much lower worst case scenario than everyone else in discussion for a top 5 pick.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Ball, but my comments are usually in retrospect to how the prospects are currently ranked and doesn't DX have this guy at 2nd? I feel like it's not a stretch to say he is more likely to have a Kendall Marshall career than that he ends up being the 2nd best player in this class.

[Duke4life831]

I just opened this thread to bring up the Kendall Marshall comparison I have been mulling in my head the past few days. I think it's somewhat accurate, but I do think Ball seems to be a better scorer at this point -- but it's entirely possible his wonky ass jumper won't translate to the NBA (especially at NBA 3 point distance) and he could have a KM type floor. I loved him as a prospect coming into this year when he was ranked in the late lottery but his floor is low enough I wouldn't want to be the team that picks him in the top 5, not this year.

Ball is taller and much much quicker than Marshall. Marshall was a really good college PG but he couldn't make it in the NBA because he was just so freaking slow and not tall enough where they could maybe slide him to cover someone else. Kendall also wasn't really a threat at all to shoot or score in college, he averaged only 8 points a game as a Soph.

Lonzo is averaging almost 15 points a game, it's much more athletic and explosive than Marshall was. So they are very different type of players.

Will ask this again why wouldn't his jumper translate especially at the NBA 3 distance? Ball has shown he has the deepest range by far out of all the PGs. He has shown no issue getting his 3 point shot off at all even against legit NBA prospects and size like against UK or Oregon. So why wouldn't his 3 point shot translate? Because it looks different?

I'm no shot doctor but it's still pretty surprising to me that he is shooting as well as he is with the mechanics on display. Maybe it works, but I'm expecting massive regression and maybe you'll see that this year, but I think you'll definitely see it in the NBA.

He is taller and more explosives and quicker than Kendall but he doesn't really use it much. He is hidden on defense and outside of transition scoring he doesn't get to the basket. His shown skill set is still basically what Marshall had shown up to this point, but with a bunch of lucky makes. That's just my worst case scenario based on what I've seen so far.

A much lower worst case scenario than everyone else in discussion for a top 5 pick.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Ball, but my comments are usually in retrospect to how the prospects are currently ranked and doesn't DX have this guy at 2nd? I feel like it's not a stretch to say he is more likely to have a Kendall Marshall career than that he ends up being the 2nd best player in this class.

Lonzo Ball has always been a knock down shooter. The dude shot 60+% one year in high school from 3. And if youve watched Chino Hills you would know thats not on small volume. Ball was first and foremost known for his shooting (just like his brothers) and his vision. Come his senior year is when his athleticism started to catch up to him and his athleticism became a positive as well. So to say his shooting is going to get worse is just weird to say, thats like saying after watching a young Reggie Miller sooner or later his shooting is going to regress because Ive never seen someone shoot like him before.

I still dont get the Kendall Marshall comparisons. Like why Kendall Marshall? Marshall was one of the slowest guard prospects to get drafted in the 1st round in probably the last decade or more. Have you seen Ball push it in transition? The dude is pretty damn fast. And i dont get what you mean when you say he is hidden on defense either. He is UCLA's best perimeter defender by a good gap and usually always guards the opposing PG or best guard.

I honestly just feel like Ball is not like the PGs of today who score first and pass 2nd, he is a true pass first PG and that just throws everyone off. They seem to think oh hes not scoring 20 points because he cant so hes not as good as those other guys. He doesnt score 20 points because he looks to get others involved as his 1st and 2nd option

[BillyKingGM]

I mean if Reggie Miller released his shot below his nose then people would've been reasonable to expect regression when moving into the NBA and having to shoot at an even higher angle to make 3s and dealing with much better defense from players more his size. We will see though. I'll be surprised if he shoots 37+ in the NBA without altering his current mechanics.

[cksdayoff]

Ball won't be altering his mechanics. He's stuck with it until his last days as a player imo. it's the wierdest mechanics i've seen, because it looks like the ball doesnt follow a straight path when he releases it...looks like its being launched at an angle. he has a quick release tho.

[GimmeDat]

The one area of his shot I could see an NBA team trying to tweak is his start point - he brings it really low, and not only does that mean it takes more time to get off, but I think it limits his ability to to pull up in to it or off of isolation as well.

Keep the across the face release, by all means, but I think it say something that most of the 3's I've seen him take and make are pretty deep. It's a fling, and while it works well for him in the shots he takes, I think to further develop as a player and be a jump shot option in more situations as a PG, he will have to do some adjustments.

It definitely helps that given the nature of his game, being a low usage, move the ball type of guy, the spot up shot is what he gets most, so I don't think it's a major deal.

[Marcus]

I mean if Reggie Miller released his shot below his nose then people would've been reasonable to expect regression when moving into the NBA and having to shoot at an even higher angle to make 3s and dealing with much better defense from players more his size. We will see though. I'll be surprised if he shoots 37+ in the NBA without altering his current mechanics.

He's playing Stanford right now. I'm sure he'll launch a few deep threes today. Just watch him. A lot of the concerns you're voicing have been disproven game in and game out.

At this point I think people are hoping to be right about him being flawed because they simply don't get it.

[Marcus]

The one area of his shot I could see an NBA team trying to tweak is his start point - he brings it really low, and not only does that mean it takes more time to get off, but I think it limits his ability to to pull up in to it or off of isolation as well.

Keep the across the face release, by all means, but I think it say something that most of the 3's I've seen him take and make are pretty deep. It's a fling, and while it works well for him in the shots he takes, I think to further develop as a player and be a jump shot option in more situations as a PG, he will have to do some adjustments.

It definitely helps that given the nature of his game, being a low usage, move the ball type of guy, the spot up shot is what he gets most, so I don't think it's a major deal.

Again. Not being a shoot first player and a guy that doesn't force shots and shoots when he knows he can get it off I don't think the windup is as a big of a deal. Also he adjusts his starting point depending on how much time he'll need for a given situation. He's fine in pullups as long as he's not going right. He's walked into a few threes this year with that low point and it seems to catch defenders off guard more than anything.

[Marcus]

Is anybody watching this? So confused on how anybody can see everything this kid does on the floor and not love his game.

Very good first half. Knocked down three deep ones, one off a pick, one off the catch, one on a pull up. Finished a lob, picked two pockets, had a chase down block, played some four when they went small and fronted the post.

My favorite play may have been when he noticed the time late in the first half and motioned to Alford from the otherside of the court to put up a catch and shoot three for a two for one to end the half.

I just dont understand what folks are missing. If you want a score first, drive and dunk, pretty numbers PG he's not your guy and that's more than fair but we gotta stop trying to find ways to not like his game at this point.

One of the better defenders in the class.
One of the better shooters in the class.
Best passer in the class.
Rebounds.
Not afraid of the moment and take the challenge on both ends.

An ugly yet effective shot shouldn't negate perhaps the most complete player in the class.

Also not sure if people have noticed but the kid plays the way the league is trending towards with ball movement, shooting, defensive versatility, and off ball cutting.

[GimmeDat]

The one area of his shot I could see an NBA team trying to tweak is his start point - he brings it really low, and not only does that mean it takes more time to get off, but I think it limits his ability to to pull up in to it or off of isolation as well.

Keep the across the face release, by all means, but I think it say something that most of the 3's I've seen him take and make are pretty deep. It's a fling, and while it works well for him in the shots he takes, I think to further develop as a player and be a jump shot option in more situations as a PG, he will have to do some adjustments.

It definitely helps that given the nature of his game, being a low usage, move the ball type of guy, the spot up shot is what he gets most, so I don't think it's a major deal.

Again. Not being a shoot first player and a guy that doesn't force shots and shoots when he knows he can get it off I don't think the windup is as a big of a deal. Also he adjusts his starting point depending on how much time he'll need for a given situation. He's fine in pullups as long as he's not going right. He's walked into a few threes this year with that low point and it seems to catch defenders off guard more than anything.

Btw, that wasn't a critique, love his game, but I could see NBA shooting coaches trying to tweak it a bit. I don't see it as a problem.

[Marcus]

The one area of his shot I could see an NBA team trying to tweak is his start point - he brings it really low, and not only does that mean it takes more time to get off, but I think it limits his ability to to pull up in to it or off of isolation as well.

Keep the across the face release, by all means, but I think it say something that most of the 3's I've seen him take and make are pretty deep. It's a fling, and while it works well for him in the shots he takes, I think to further develop as a player and be a jump shot option in more situations as a PG, he will have to do some adjustments.

It definitely helps that given the nature of his game, being a low usage, move the ball type of guy, the spot up shot is what he gets most, so I don't think it's a major deal.

Again. Not being a shoot first player and a guy that doesn't force shots and shoots when he knows he can get it off I don't think the windup is as a big of a deal. Also he adjusts his starting point depending on how much time he'll need for a given situation. He's fine in pullups as long as he's not going right. He's walked into a few threes this year with that low point and it seems to catch defenders off guard more than anything.

Btw, that wasn't a critique, love his game, but I could see NBA shooting coaches trying to tweak it a bit. I don't see it as a problem.

That's fair. I'm sure somebody has that in mind.

[jrob23]

Is anybody watching this? So confused on how anybody can see everything this kid does on the floor and not love his game.

Very good first half. Knocked down three deep ones, one off a pick, one off the catch, one on a pull up. Finished a lob, picked two pockets, had a chase down block, played some four when they went small and fronted the post.

My favorite play may have been when he noticed the time late in the first half and motioned to Alford from the otherside of the court to put up a catch and shoot three for a two for one to end the half.

I just dont understand what folks are missing. If you want a score first, drive and dunk, pretty numbers PG he's not your guy and that's more than fair but we gotta stop trying to find ways to not like his game at this point.

One of the better defenders in the class.
One of the better shooters in the class.
Best passer in the class.
Rebounds.
Not afraid of the moment and take the challenge on both ends.

An ugly yet effective shot shouldn't negate perhaps the most complete player in the class.

Also not sure if people have noticed but the kid plays the way the league is trending towards with ball movement, shooting, defensive versatility, and off ball cutting.

yeah I just got done watching it. He's pretty amazing. I did see..for the first time all season actually...that he tried to take a jump shot at around the free throw line and got blocked lol. People are right about that..he needs to figure out a way to get that shot off without bringing the ball so low. It won't be a problem from three because he'll only take wide open shots. It also may be something he just never tries...and that is perfectly fine too. But if he wants to incorporate a mid range game beyond a tear drop...he'll need to alter his delivery.

TJ Leaf was a beast as well. Love that kid. It was frustrating watching Hamilton shoot more than anyone else and turn the ball over. Why does coach allow that nonsense? He should be fifth in shots every night. If they don't fix this chucker it'll hurt them in the tournament

[cksdayoff]

Again. Not being a shoot first player and a guy that doesn't force shots and shoots when he knows he can get it off I don't think the windup is as a big of a deal. Also he adjusts his starting point depending on how much time he'll need for a given situation. He's fine in pullups as long as he's not going right. He's walked into a few threes this year with that low point and it seems to catch defenders off guard more than anything.

Btw, that wasn't a critique, love his game, but I could see NBA shooting coaches trying to tweak it a bit. I don't see it as a problem.

That's fair. I'm sure somebody has that in mind.

i dunno...why mess with something that works. i mean, if his shot starts getting blocked a ton at the next level, i can see them tweaking it a little after his rookie year.