2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

smittybanton · Post #1121 » by **smittybanton** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:02 pm

For all his considerable skill, Josh Jackson may slide in this upcoming draft because his shooting is mediocre, teams may not think it will get dramatically better considering he's already almost twenty years old, and almost all of the teams who are likely at the top of the draft have a young player on the roster very similar to Jackson.

The five teams I expect the Sixers to pass once we have Ben Simmons in the fold are Brooklyn/Boston, Miami, Phoenix, Minnesota and Dallas. Of these five teams, only the Phoenix Suns are a fit for Josh, because Boston has Jaylen Brown, Miami has Justise Winslow, Minnesota has Andrew Wiggins, and Dallas has Justin Anderson. Even New Orleans has Solomon Hill, although you don't make decisions based on Solomon Hill (except, that is, when you have other options just as good).

Jackson is, however, an absolute perfect fit for the Phoenix Suns, since their biggest position of need in my opinion is small forward, and Jackson is one who can defend and facilitate for their defensively challenged, scoring minded guards.

So, (right now) a dream draft in my book includes the Sixers getting the #1 pick and taking Lonzo Ball, plus the Lakers finishing with a worse record than the Phoenix Suns so that we can draft Josh Jackson ahead of them.

Lonzo Ball and Josh Jackson. If for some reason, Jayson Tatum falls to us instead of Jackson, all the better! We'll need a scorer.

All that said, Dennis Smith Jr. is also very, very likely to slide, because those teams above need point guards probably less than a defensive minded wing. Anticipating this, Miami is trying to trade Goran Dragic now!

PhilasFinest · Post #1122 » by **PhilasFinest** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:05 pm

I dont see him falling. He's a smart young player, with 2-way upside and his athletic ability will probably shine in workouts, where he will flash an "improved" jump shot.

smittybanton · Post #1123 » by **smittybanton** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:06 pm

Trying to stay open-minded. But I can't lie like I'm not waiting on the edge of my seat Lonzo Ball at 8pm. And TJ Leaf. Want both of them!

LloydFree · Post #1124 » by **LloydFree** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:23 pm

Size tends to win out in the draft. That along with the fact that there is extreme scarcity in the league at the wing position makes it very unlikely that Josh Jackson falls very far. You're Kidding yourself if you think there will be 3 PGs in a row selected in the 1st 3 picks of this draft. Some team will take Jackson, Isaac and/or Giles in the top 3 to just gamble on upside. The PGs coming out this year aren't once in a generation level players that teams are going to climb over each other to get.

Ericb5 · Post #1125 » by **Ericb5** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:25 pm

I think his floor is the 3rd pick, unless Giles passes him into the top 3.

He is still first on my list. The Sixers aren't going to suddenly pass a bunch of teams when Simmons comes back.

Embiid is still not playing in back to back games, and Simmons will likely be on a minutes restriction too.

I just want to end the season with them both at full strength. Next year neither of them should have any restrictions at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post #1126 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:31 pm

smittybanton wrote:For all his considerable skill, Josh Jackson may slide in this upcoming draft because his shooting is mediocre, teams may not think it will get dramatically better considering he's already almost twenty years old, and almost all of the teams who are likely at the top of the draft have a young player on the roster very similar to Jackson.

The five teams I expect the Sixers to pass once we have Ben Simmons in the fold are Brooklyn/Boston, Miami, Phoenix, Minnesota and Dallas. Of these five teams, only the Phoenix Suns are a fit for Josh, because Boston has Jaylen Brown, Miami has Justise Winslow, Minnesota has Andrew Wiggins, and Dallas has Justin Anderson. Even New Orleans has Solomon Hill, although you don't make decisions based on Solomon Hill (except, that is, when you have other options just as good).

Jackson is, however, an absolute perfect fit for the Phoenix Suns, since their biggest position of need in my opinion is small forward, and Jackson is one who can defend and facilitate for their defensively challenged, scoring minded guards.

So, (right now) a dream draft in my book includes the Sixers getting the #1 pick and taking Lonzo Ball, plus the Lakers finishing with a worse record than the Phoenix Suns so that we can draft Josh Jackson ahead of them.

Lonzo Ball and Josh Jackson. If for some reason, Jayson Tatum falls to us instead of Jackson, all the better! We'll need a scorer.

All that said, Dennis Smith Jr. is also very, very likely to slide, because those teams above need point guards probably less than a defensive minded wing. Anticipating this, Miami is trying to trade Goran Dragic now!

Just use the draft threads. We don't need a new thread for every idea.

cksdayoff · Post #1127 » by **cksdayoff** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:40 pm

i hope to god the celtics want harry giles with the brooklynn pick. i don't want them anywhere near fultz

MR28 · Post #1128 » by **MR28** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:46 pm

I've heard an argument for and against every PG in this draft. What do I believe..?

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #1129 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:48 pm

Hey how'd Smith look today against UNC. I tuned in last night, fully invested in that game only to have it postponed. I didn't watch it today because I was watching my Miami Dolphins get spanked by the Steelers.

smittybanton · Post #1130 » by **smittybanton** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:52 pm

Ericb5 wrote:I think his floor is the 3rd pick, unless Giles passes him into the top 3.

He is still first on my list. The Sixers aren't going to suddenly pass a bunch of teams when Simmons comes back.

Embiid is still not playing in back to back games, and Simmons will likely be on a minutes restriction too.

I just want to end the season with them both at full strength. Next year neither of them should have any restrictions at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Based on needs and similar talent level, I'll bet 50cents on Harry Giles and Jayson Tatum going before Josh Jackson for fit reasons, maybe even Jonathan Isaac. Should they? Maybe, maybe not.

I think Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Smith and Giles are on the same tier. I'm a BPA guy, now and forever. But when a bunch of guys are on the same tier, fit plays a part. I just don't see the Heat or Boston or Minn taking Jackson over either Giles or Tatum.

If Jackson improves his shooting, he might be too good to pass up. If not, I just can't see squads opting into Winslow & Jackson, or Jaylen Brown & Jackson.

Another thing to consider with Harry Giles is how well Joel Embiid is playing. Maybe Milwaukee or Minnesota should've ignored the injury history? Heat, Wolves, Boston (Lakers if they get #1) will be faced with that decision.

cksdayoff · Post #1131 » by **cksdayoff** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 12:00 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:Hey how'd Smith look today against UNC. I tuned in last night, fully invested in that game only to have it postponed. I didn't watch it today because I was watching my Miami Dolphins get spanked by the Steelers.

didn't watch the game but the dsj thread in the draft forum says he picked up 2 quick fouls and sat and looked disinterested throughout the entire game and ncstate got blown out by 50

Unbreakable99 · Post #1132 » by **Unbreakable99** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 4:14 am

How can people say Fultz is the top prospect by a wide margin? I don't get it. I have no problem with anyone ranking Fultz at 1 but I do have a problem with them saying he's on a tier above everyone else. Look at this highlight from Ball and someone please tell me how Fultz is clearly better than him. You can't.

Watch on YouTube

eagereyez · Post #1133 » by **eagereyez** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 4:49 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:How can people say Fultz is the top prospect by a wide margin? I don't get it. I have no problem with anyone ranking Fultz at 1 but I do have a problem with them saying he's on a tier above everyone else. Look at this highlight from Ball and someone please tell me how Fultz is clearly better than him. You can't.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Because Fultz is capable of breaking down an offense and getting to the rim in the half court, whereas Ball isn't a threat to score if he's not in transition or being assisted for an open 3. Ball is being overrated by us (Sixers fans) due to his fit on the Sixers.

Post #1134 » by **Marcus** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 4:54 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:How can people say Fultz is the top prospect by a wide margin? I don't get it. I have no problem with anyone ranking Fultz at 1 but I do have a problem with them saying he's on a tier above everyone else. Look at this highlight from Ball and someone please tell me how Fultz is clearly better than him. You can't.

Watch on YouTube

Because Ball isn't a score first attack guard and therefore less attractive in the eyes of some people.

nitocobola · Post #1135 » by **nitocobola** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 4:57 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:How can people say Fultz is the top prospect by a wide margin? I don't get it. I have no problem with anyone ranking Fultz at 1 but I do have a problem with them saying he's on a tier above everyone else. Look at this highlight from Ball and someone please tell me how Fultz is clearly better than him. You can't.

Watch on YouTube

Of course that you can.
And is not all about **** youtube highlights

Fultz is a tier above but I will be happy if we get lonzo.

SelfishPlayer · Post #1136 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 5:12 am

Lonzo Ball can not be totally exposed in college basketball, but in the NBA at some point some top team will force him to do what he hasn't done. He takes the same exact assortment of perimeter shots and when he drives away from the perimeter he is looking for the assist or a layup, nothing else. The thing is that he has poise so even if you put together a game plan to stop him and it works, he will still take full advantage of all opportunities whenever they present themselves.

Unbreakable99 · Post #1137 » by **Unbreakable99** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 5:18 am

Ball is similar to Jason Kidd. Both love to pass. Ball has a better jumper at the same age though. Kidd was faster and quicker and a better defender. Kidd was the better prospect in my opinion but the two are similar in many aspects. When Kidd got a better jump shot he was a good player to pass to for a set shot. Ball can do that now.

eagereyez · Post #1138 » by **eagereyez** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 5:36 am

Marcus wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:How can people say Fultz is the top prospect by a wide margin? I don't get it. I have no problem with anyone ranking Fultz at 1 but I do have a problem with them saying he's on a tier above everyone else. Look at this highlight from Ball and someone please tell me how Fultz is clearly better than him. You can't.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Because Ball isn't a score first attack guard and therefore less attractive in the eyes of some people.

It has nothing to do with aesthetics, and everything to do with recognizing NBA trends and how players fit with those trends. Its never been easier to score on the perimeter. Look across the league, scoring from the PG position is blowing up. This is a trend that will continue so long as the NBA's perimeter defensive rules remain what they are.

Watch on YouTube

HankTheTank · Post #1139 » by **HankTheTank** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 5:44 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:Ball is similar to Jason Kidd. Both love to pass. Ball has a better jumper at the same age though. Kidd was faster and quicker and a better defender. Kidd was the better prospect in my opinion but the two are similar in many aspects. When Kidd got a better jump shot he was a good player to pass to for a set shot. Ball can do that now.

This is a good take. I've watched consecutive UCLA games from start to finish. Ball has Simmons like vision, passing, and bball iq. The two of them on the same team would be one of the all time great basketball science experiments.

His fugly jumper works, somehow. I'm assuming he can defend NBA pg's with his length and smarts, but I'm not sure.

Slizeezyc · Post #1140 » by **Slizeezyc** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 6:04 am

HankTheTank wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:Ball is similar to Jason Kidd. Both love to pass. Ball has a better jumper at the same age though. Kidd was faster and quicker and a better defender. Kidd was the better prospect in my opinion but the two are similar in many aspects. When Kidd got a better jump shot he was a good player to pass to for a set shot. Ball can do that now.

This is a good take. I've watched consecutive UCLA games from start to finish. Ball has Simmons like vision, passing, and bball iq. The two of them on the same team would be one of the all time great basketball science experiments.

His fugly jumper works, somehow. I'm assuming he can defend NBA pg's with his length and smarts, but I'm not sure.

He absolutely has zero shot at guarding NBA PGs right now. His off-ball instincts are better than expected as he never played a lick of defense before getting to UCLA, but he's a travesty in pick and roll right now. He's a two-guard who can switch 1-3 as a 6-6 body though, so that part is nice. He's sort of like the anti-Jabari or anti-Waiters in that you like him as a team defender, but do not let him guard one on one in space or in pick and roll. (Jabari has some of the worst team defense/help defense instincts I've ever seen, but he's relatively average as an on-ball guy.)

I also don't see the Kidd comparisons in that he can barely penetrate. His vision is top notch, his jumper somehow works for him, but he's not a penetrator, he's shown to struggle with top-level athleticism so far, struggles to get his own shot unless it's from 30 feet, and only has athleticism on the break when he can build up some momentum.

I agree that he would be a really fascinating and potentially really good fit with Simmons for that reason though. Simmons can be the lead ball handler and penetrator still, but Ball is amaze-balls in the open court, makes the right pass almost always, at least seems like a willing defender, has nice size and seems like a good dude. If he can get out in run and cause turnovers, mixed in with making open shots and make the right pass in the halfcourt, he's a great mix on this team in theory.

I think the worst thing that can happen to Ball right now is he goes to a team that needs him to be a half-court general and be the lead guard. He will have a near-impossible time getting off his shot when he goes one direction as he has to bring it across his body and has a low release point, and he's not a penetrating finisher (he's like Rondo but with a jumper in the half court in that sense).