2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

[Snotbubbles]

Ball is similar to Jason Kidd. Both love to pass. Ball has a better jumper at the same age though. Kidd was faster and quicker and a better defender. Kidd was the better prospect in my opinion but the two are similar in many aspects. When Kidd got a better jump shot he was a good player to pass to for a set shot. Ball can do that now.

This is a good take. I've watched consecutive UCLA games from start to finish. Ball has Simmons like vision, passing, and bball iq. The two of them on the same team would be one of the all time great basketball science experiments.

His fugly jumper works, somehow. I'm assuming he can defend NBA pg's with his length and smarts, but I'm not sure.

It would be a series of 24 sec shot clock violations at they pass the ball back and forth to each other wanting the other guy to shoot.

[sixers4real]

Will Ball and Monk backcourt work? 3 and 6 pick.
With SF like Crowder.
Embiid and Simmons as bigs

[LordCovington33]

Ball is similar to Jason Kidd. Both love to pass. Ball has a better jumper at the same age though. Kidd was faster and quicker and a better defender. Kidd was the better prospect in my opinion but the two are similar in many aspects. When Kidd got a better jump shot he was a good player to pass to for a set shot. Ball can do that now.

This is a good take. I've watched consecutive UCLA games from start to finish. Ball has Simmons like vision, passing, and bball iq. The two of them on the same team would be one of the all time great basketball science experiments.

His fugly jumper works, somehow. I'm assuming he can defend NBA pg's with his length and smarts, but I'm not sure.

It would be a series of 24 sec shot clock violations at they pass the ball back and forth to each other wanting the other guy to shoot.

Really? Have you seen Ball play? Has great movement off the ball, getting into position to hit 3s. Simmons would find him or one of the other perimeter shooters when the defence collapses on him inside the paint.

[Kolkmania]

http://hoop-math.com/Kentucky2017.php

For a slashing guard, his finishing rate at the rim is fairly suspect for a NBA prospect.

How is that the case when he is currently finishing 65.5% at the rim while Fultz is finishing 61.4%, Dennis Smith is at 66.2%, last season Kris Dunn was at 62.6%, Damian Lillard his last college season was at 59.9%, Marcus Smart his last college season was at 64.9, D'Angelo Russell his last college season was at 62.2%. Jordan Clarson his last college season shot 59.6% at the rim. C.J. McCollum his last college season shot 54.8% at the rim. Victor Oladipo his last college season shot 69.9% at the rim.

You have access to those great statistics and still managed to make a blunder.

You have to look at the system. You can't look at it in isolation. Kentucky is 10x more stacked than NC State or Washington. His finishing rate on his team is lower than his NBA caliber teammates. His finishing rate is literally lowest among his rotation minute teammates. His finishing also doesn't pass the eye test. His finishing could improve because he is so frail right now, but the complete utter lack of a jump shot is troubling for a NBA level guard.

Lillard was always known as that due who can't finish in the NBA. Other players are either not scoring guards or could actually shoot. When your only offensive skill is slashing, you have to finish at an elite rate.

You can compare prospects with a single metric (FG% at the rim) all you want, but always take context into account. Like you mentioned, it is easier to score more efficiently at Kentucky or Duke than Washington e.g. However, comparing De'Aaron Fox' finishing rate at the rim with his teammate Malik Monk is also skewed for example.

De'Aaron Fox: 66%
Malik Monk: 74%

A logical conlcusion would be that Monk is the better finisher of the two, however Monk's baskets at the rim are assisted in 60% of the cases, in comparison with the 29% of Fox. Generally this means that Fox' shots were harder and he had to create them himself, that passes the eye test when you watch Kentucky. Monk makes his shots at the rim nearly exclusively in transition or alley-oops. The 66% percent of Fox is more impressive than the 74% of Monk in my opinion.

[Kolkmania]

Dennis Smith jr. had a really toxic game against North Carolina. You can struggle, especially as a freshman, but his energy level was not acceptable. He even ignored Henderson when he wanted Smith to rotate towards the wing at some point. I know he can get in a stance if he wants to, but defense is all about consistency and teamwork.

Think I've watched NC State 6/7 times now and Smith does not have the appearance of a leader I though he would have. He obviously has the skills and physical attributes to become a star in the NBA.

[SelfishPlayer]

A logical conlcusion would be that Monk is the better finisher of the two,

No. Why? because there is more data available on that website that allowed you to post everything else that came after the above statement.

[Kolkmania]

A logical conlcusion would be that Monk is the better finisher of the two,

No. Why? because there is more data available on that website that allowed you to post everything else that came after the above statement.

Did you even read my post?

[Negrodamus]

A logical conlcusion would be that Monk is the better finisher of the two,

No. Why? because there is more data available on that website that allowed you to post everything else that came after the above statement.

Did you even read my post?

How could he? He was too busy finding the perfect trolling emoji for the first thing he disagreed with.

FWIW, I think you're right, but I do think Monk is quite good at finishing at the rim given his stature. Fox and Briscoe are just ridiculous at it though.

[SelfishPlayer]

Briscoe is one of the best pound for pound finishers that I have ever seen play college basketball. I am holding back calling him one of the best pound for pound finishers that I have ever seen until he plays NBA basketball. But he has that special finishing ability like Rod Strickland, Tony Parker, Kyrie Irving, Sherman Douglas, Cedric Ceballos, and Antawn Jamison.

[Snotbubbles]

This is a good take. I've watched consecutive UCLA games from start to finish. Ball has Simmons like vision, passing, and bball iq. The two of them on the same team would be one of the all time great basketball science experiments.

His fugly jumper works, somehow. I'm assuming he can defend NBA pg's with his length and smarts, but I'm not sure.

It would be a series of 24 sec shot clock violations at they pass the ball back and forth to each other wanting the other guy to shoot.

Really? Have you seen Ball play? Has great movement off the ball, getting into position to hit 3s. Simmons would find him or one of the other perimeter shooters when the defence collapses on him inside the paint.

Yes seen him play. He shoots the ball from too low for my liking.

[Slizeezyc]

Dennis Smith jr. had a really toxic game against North Carolina. You can struggle, especially as a freshman, but his energy level was not acceptable. He even ignored Henderson when he wanted Smith to rotate towards the wing at some point. I know he can get in a stance if he wants to, but defense is all about consistency and teamwork.

Think I've watched NC State 6/7 times now and Smith does not have the appearance of a leader I though he would have. He obviously has the skills and physical attributes to become a star in the NBA.

Yeah the motor, off-ball laziness on both ends and general apathy at times has really stuck out to me as well. I'm higher on his skill than pretty much anyone not named Fultz, and yet I haven't been able to get totally on board still because of the intangibles and disregard for defense.

He would be someone I would have to interview to feel better about things during the pre-draft process.

[cksdayoff]

dsj although talented is the most ball dominant guard in the top 10. i've been on his bandwagon since he was a sophomore in hs so i'm a fan of his talents but i don't think he is a good fit with Ben.

[smittybanton]

TJ Leaf 15pts (5-8, 1-1, 4-7) 10rbs, 6asts, stl, 2blks, 0to
Lonzo Ball 21pts (7-10, 4-5, 3-4) 6rbs, 8asts, 3stls, 2blks, 2to
Ike Anigbogu 6pts, 3rbs, 2blks, 14min
Aaron Holiday 9pts (3-7, 1-2, 2-2) 6rbs, 5asts, stl, 5to
John Collins 16pts (5-11, 0-0, 6-10) 6rbs, ast, stl, 2blks, 2to
Nigel Hayes 10pts (4-12, 0-2, 2-4) 5rbs, 3asetss, stel, 4to
Caleb Swanigan 18pts (7-10, 2-2, 2-2) 13rbs, 2asts, 2blks, 8to
Dennis Smith Jr 11pts/26min (4-11, 2-6, 1-1) 5rbs, 5asts, 3stls, 6to
Omar Yurtseven 2pts, 8rbs, 26min
Tony Bradley 11pts, 8rbs, 14min
Justin Jackson 21pts (7-15, 6-11, 1-2) 4rbs, 2asts, 0stcks
Joel Berry 19pts/23min (6-10, 3-7, 4-4) 5rbs, 5asts, stls, 3to
Ivan Rabb 17pts (6-10, 1-1, 4-5) 8rbs, 2asts, 3stls, 2blks, 3to
DeAnthony Melton 13pts (4-9, 2-5, 3-5) 7rbs, 4asts, 3stls, 2blks, to
Dedric Lawson 24pts (9-16, 2-4, 4-6) 10rbs, 3asts, 2stls, 5blks, 5to
Peter Jok 18pts 97-18, 2-10, 2-2) 11rbs, 2asts, 2stls, 3to


UCLA is the most fun college team to watch since the mid-90s Nolan Richardson Arkansas Razorbacks.

[cksdayoff]

UCLA is the most fun college team to watch since the mid-90s Nolan Richardson Arkansas Razorbacks.

corliss williamson was a beast. was a fan of ucla when they had the o'bannon brothers. I thought the 99 uconn team was fun to watch. ricky moore, khalid el-amin, etc

[LloydFree]

Dennis Smith jr. had a really toxic game against North Carolina. You can struggle, especially as a freshman, but his energy level was not acceptable. He even ignored Henderson when he wanted Smith to rotate towards the wing at some point. I know he can get in a stance if he wants to, but defense is all about consistency and teamwork.

Think I've watched NC State 6/7 times now and Smith does not have the appearance of a leader I though he would have. He obviously has the skills and physical attributes to become a star in the NBA.

He's a 6'1 PG with a 6'3 wingspan. I wouldn't say he has star physical attributes.

[Kolkmania]

Dennis Smith jr. had a really toxic game against North Carolina. You can struggle, especially as a freshman, but his energy level was not acceptable. He even ignored Henderson when he wanted Smith to rotate towards the wing at some point. I know he can get in a stance if he wants to, but defense is all about consistency and teamwork.

Think I've watched NC State 6/7 times now and Smith does not have the appearance of a leader I though he would have. He obviously has the skills and physical attributes to become a star in the NBA.

He's a 6'1 PG with a 6'3 wingspan. I wouldn't say he has star physical attributes.

Isn't he 6'3? Height and wingspan aren't important for a PG imo. Some of the best point guards in the league like Chris Paul, Stephen Curry and Kyle Lowry have similar measurements. Nevertheless, I was referring to his vertical, ability to change speed and lateral quickness.

[eagereyez]

Dennis Smith jr. had a really toxic game against North Carolina. You can struggle, especially as a freshman, but his energy level was not acceptable. He even ignored Henderson when he wanted Smith to rotate towards the wing at some point. I know he can get in a stance if he wants to, but defense is all about consistency and teamwork.

Think I've watched NC State 6/7 times now and Smith does not have the appearance of a leader I though he would have. He obviously has the skills and physical attributes to become a star in the NBA.

He's a 6'1 PG with a 6'3 wingspan. I wouldn't say he has star physical attributes.

Isn't he 6'3? Height and wingspan aren't important for a PG imo. Some of the best point guards in the league like Chris Paul, Stephen Curry and Kyle Lowry have similar measurements. Nevertheless, I was referring to his vertical, ability to change speed and lateral quickness.

You're right that the wingspan isn't too important. Having a large wingspan just means that you might expect him to improve at a rate above the mean, which obviously isn't guaranteed to happen.

Sent from my SM-G900T using RealGM mobile app

[Ericb5]

Dennis Smith jr. had a really toxic game against North Carolina. You can struggle, especially as a freshman, but his energy level was not acceptable. He even ignored Henderson when he wanted Smith to rotate towards the wing at some point. I know he can get in a stance if he wants to, but defense is all about consistency and teamwork.

Think I've watched NC State 6/7 times now and Smith does not have the appearance of a leader I though he would have. He obviously has the skills and physical attributes to become a star in the NBA.

He's a 6'1 PG with a 6'3 wingspan. I wouldn't say he has star physical attributes.

Isn't he 6'3? Height and wingspan aren't important for a PG imo. Some of the best point guards in the league like Chris Paul, Stephen Curry and Kyle Lowry have similar measurements. Nevertheless, I was referring to his vertical, ability to change speed and lateral quickness.

He is listed as 6'3, but but he is probably 6'1 and change barefoot. He isn't very long, but he will be in the top echelon of athletes in the NBA.

[CoreyGallagher]

I'm just going to go on record as saying that I think Frank Ntilikina is going to be the dude.

[cksdayoff]

I'm just going to go on record as saying that I think Frank Ntilikina is going to be the dude.

If it's not Fultz, then I think it's Frank too.

When Simmons comes back, the Fultz dream will be gone. We're not gonna have a shot at him. I just don't want him to go to Boston.