OT: Europe Trip

[DutchManDanFan]

If you want to see and live the most diversity and historic cities for short stays I recommand Berlin, Amsterdam, Barcelona and Florence. I never went to Hamburg, but I know that's nice too.
I didn't like Brussels that much. In Belgium I like Gent and Antwerpen more.
If you want to go to Paris I think you should stay there for a week. Stay away from Venice, it's too crowded.

[PerkinsFor3]

Sorry for the OT thread in the middle of the season, but didn't see a dedicated thread and hoping some of you can help me out.

I'm trying to plan a trip to Europe this summer but I've never been, so hoping some of you have some experience that could give me some ideas. We're flying out to Stockholm for a wedding, but won't be staying there for more than the weekend. This will give us about 1.5-2 weeks until we come back.

Our options are pretty open, but we can't agree on staying in one place or trying to travel through and see a few different cities. The ideal trip to me would be flying into Hamburg and traveling through Amsterdam, Brussels, and ending up in Paris. That might be too much traveling though, and not enough time in each city/country to get a good experience. Thing is that most of those trips are only 1-2 hours except for Hamburg to Amsterdam so maybe it wouldn't be too bad? Other concern is the cost but other than getting a train pass I don't see how it would be much different than staying in one place.

Other options are going to Dublin with another group from the wedding, heading to Spain and checking out Madrid and Barcelona and anything in between, or going to Italy and spending time in Rome. No matter what probably going to AirBnb wherever we can, and hoping to avoid renting cars if possible. Is the Eurail worth it considering you can customize how many countries you want to travel through? Looking briefly and it looks like you still have to pay fees to reserve seats, so not sure which way you come out ahead.

Skip Amsterdam and Brussels, visit Florence and Rome instead, and maybe drive from Milan, via Aosta, to Zurich, so you catch the Alps as well.

Much more worth your time.

[PerkinsFor3]

Also, Easyjet is another quite cheap carrier with, I think, more connections.

[Nightfall]

+1 vote on skipping Brussels in favor of Brugges, Antwerp, Ghent.

[ReasonablySober]

Sorry for the OT thread in the middle of the season, but didn't see a dedicated thread and hoping some of you can help me out.

I'm trying to plan a trip to Europe this summer but I've never been, so hoping some of you have some experience that could give me some ideas. We're flying out to Stockholm for a wedding, but won't be staying there for more than the weekend. This will give us about 1.5-2 weeks until we come back.

Our options are pretty open, but we can't agree on staying in one place or trying to travel through and see a few different cities. The ideal trip to me would be flying into Hamburg and traveling through Amsterdam, Brussels, and ending up in Paris. That might be too much traveling though, and not enough time in each city/country to get a good experience. Thing is that most of those trips are only 1-2 hours except for Hamburg to Amsterdam so maybe it wouldn't be too bad? Other concern is the cost but other than getting a train pass I don't see how it would be much different than staying in one place.

Other options are going to Dublin with another group from the wedding, heading to Spain and checking out Madrid and Barcelona and anything in between, or going to Italy and spending time in Rome. No matter what probably going to AirBnb wherever we can, and hoping to avoid renting cars if possible. Is the Eurail worth it considering you can customize how many countries you want to travel through? Looking briefly and it looks like you still have to pay fees to reserve seats, so not sure which way you come out ahead.

I'm going to Italy and Paris this summer. Used a company called Monograms for Italy. How it works is you choose the plan you like, they set up transportation and lodging, you get a guided tour to see the main **** in every city for the first half of one day, then if you want you're on your own. You can still use guides, but you can go off and do your own thing too. Gonna see Venice, Rome, Florence and Sorrento. Totally gonna find me an Italian girl.

Then spending a week in Paris. Used a site called Vbro to find something like an airbb.

[humanrefutation]

Make sure to stop in Greece and share with the locals our love of Giannis.

[averageposter]

Whatever you do, don't ask Scotty....Scotty doesn't know.

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

If you want great beaches and great food go to the Algarve in South Portugal. Also a nice place to go if you don't want to deal with all of the tourist crowds. Not a lot of Americans go, here, more of a getaway spot for Northern Europe. I've been there twice and it's an all time favorite. Piri Piri Chicken is the food to get. Here are the beaches...

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

Other places I have enjoyed, Italy all around is great and should be done at least once (see pictures of Cinque Terre below). Barcelona is a fun city. And I really enjoyed my time in London. Finland is not that great and pricy. Estonia was pretty cool because they have a lto of medieval buildings and castles. It's also very cheap.

[albydigei]

If you nedd some infos about Italy just ask me, i'm italian indeed

[MilHammer]

Depending on where you go, I also really recommend using Rome2Rio. It's a website that essentially compiles all the available transportation options (w prices). It's not particularly great for flights, although it's good for getting a rough estimate. However, it is hands down the best option for finding bus and trains to smaller tourist destinations within a country or for busing/training short distances between cities (1h-4h). For example, when I went to Romania, I used it to find the best busing options between Bucharest and various castles/villages in Transylvania and also used it to bus from Bucharest to Sofia, Bulgaria. The website does a great job of listing local bus agencies, so you're also not getting ripped off by lines that cater to tourists.

Since your window for traveling is pretty short I second using an airline like Ryan Air for trips between countries since Eurorail isnt as cheap as its made out to be (more than Ryan Air in most cases) and it can be pretty time intensive. Training is great for in country travel, I'd only recommend it for travel across Europe if you have time. Its a lot more conducive for trips that last around a month+.

In regards to your question on where to go/how long to stay, it really depends on what type of experience you want and how many opportunities you think you'll have to do a similar trip. A few years ago when I was living in Europe, I was doing trips to capitals every weekend. In retrospect though, I would recommend against it. The best experiences I had were when I could stay in one city for around 2 weeks. You get to relax, explore the city at your own pace and not feel like you're obligated to shuttle between touristy destinations. If there's a city/destination you and your SO are super interested in, I totally recommend that option. If you wanna bounce around, Id say you can do most cities in 3-4 days if you're productive each day.

Lastly, here are some cities that I recommend. A lot are not as popular, but are rising quickly in popularity. Lisbon, Ljubljana, Budapest, Dubrovnik, Salzburg, Sevilla, Brussels, Hamburg, Belgrade.

My #1 recommendation is Ljubljana, Slovenia. You get a mix of Balkan, Germanic and Mediterranean culture in a beautiful little country that is nestled between Croatia, Hungary/Austria and Italy. It's a 2 hour train ride from Venice, and every destination in the country is a 2-3 train ride away. If you go South, you get pristine Mediterranean coastline that rivals Italy/Croatia and if you go north you're basically in Hungary and you have green rolling mountains and castles. Also an overnight train ride away from Croatia, Serbia, etc so its very easy to do a Balkans trip.

If you're feeling adventurous and can ignore all the news, I also recommend Istanbul. It is the best city in the world imo. PM me if you have any other questions and good luck!

Thanks for all of that. Now I'm questioning whether I want to skip Germany since we were likely going to go to Hamburg. Again this not likely to be our last Europe trip so I wouldn't mind skipping Germany and a lot of France since we can plan other trips around some of those bigger destinations. I would love to be able to nest in a city for 2-3 weeks at least to get a really good feel for their culture, but given the nature of this trip where we already know we have to travel between a couple countries, I think we are better off hopping around a few different places.

Yeah of course man, no problem. And yeah, there's no prob in bouncing around! As others have said, I also recommend kinda bypassing Germany/France for now. I think some combination of a Netherlands/Belgium to Spain/Italy trip would be quite good. Lots of diversity between the locales. I still would plug an Italy to maybe Croatia type trip, with the opportunity to hit the beautiful coastline and beaches. Let us all know what you ultimately decide man!

[jmart762]

I don't know how much of the Scandinavian culture you'll take in during the wedding, but I am a huge fan of Copenhagen after living there for 6 months. It has a different appeal than a lot of other cities, so it depends on what you're looking for. Roskilde or Aarhus would be smaller city, rich in culture places to visit for a day as well.

If you are into history, Berlin has a few good tours and lots to see and experience.

Barcelona is a must visit if you can! I was there years ago during the March 28/29th protests when everything was shut down and it was still amazing!

I haven't been to Europe in 4 years, but back then RyanAIR sucked. Cheap but they would try to get you for every lil infraction to raise your fees up. Super picky and off putting, but maybe that has changed since.

[HurricaneKid]

Don't do Paris in the Summer. I don't mind a lot of tourists; but it gets way out of hand. I took my mom for her BDay years back and she didn't get to see the top of the Eiffel Tower because there was an 8 hour line to get from the second deck to the top. I've been there ~5 times (no other summer trips) and I didn't wait 10 minutes any other time. That's the difference between peak and non-peak. Several of the larger cities are going to have issues like this.

We have a really good group of travelers but we need a LOT more info to make proper recommendations. Canyoning and seeing Paris are pretty much the opposite ends of the spectrum. Let us know if you want to see scenic beauty vs age old cities, etc. Are you/your better half good travelers? I took an ex (that was living with me) on a 3 week trip through Europe and we essentially never spoke again. How many trips do you plan to take to Europe? Because if you are thinking one or two you are going to be told to take a whirlwind trip because you have a lot to cover. But if you are going to take 6+ you can really settle into areas and get a better feel for the people and country. Just provide more info on what level you are at, what types of things you want to see and you will get far more personalized recommendations.

I also REALLY disagree with some of the recs. Amsterdam is BEAUTIFUL and it is a vibrant city. If you aren't going to take part in certain activities there are still a lot of things to see and do. And if you are there are few places like it in the world. Another person told you to avoid Rome. Another said to make sure you see Florence. Make no mistake about it: Rome >>>>>>> Florence.

Stick to the trains. Trust me on this. RyanAir/Easyjet are far cheaper. But flying isn't anywhere NEAR as convenient as taking the train. Lets take London->Paris. If you fly Ryanair you are taking Stansted/Luton to Beauvois. BEST CASE scenario is taking a train an hour out of town to the airport, hanging out in a 3rd world airport while they round you like cattle for hours, flying in a cramped seat for 40 min to another 3rd world airport and taking a bus an hour after your plane lands an hour into town to Paris. All these tertiary trains/busses are more expensive than you think, but the real cost is the time. Its going to be an 8 hour debacle. OR you can spend another 6.5 hours in Paris/London and take a 80 min train from city center to city center. Almost every flight/train comparison is going to be like that; where the plane trip takes FAR longer and puts you far away from where you want to be. You have to do it to get to Ireland but if you stick to mainland Europe, take the train and save yourself the trouble.

[M-C-G]

Stick to the trains. Trust me on this. RyanAir/Easyjet are far cheaper. But flying isn't anywhere NEAR as convenient as taking the train. Lets take London->Paris. If you fly Ryanair you are taking Stansted/Luton to Beauvois. BEST CASE scenario is taking a train an hour out of town to the airport, hanging out in a 3rd world airport while they round you like cattle for hours, flying in a cramped seat for 40 min to another 3rd world airport and taking a bus an hour after your plane lands an hour into town to Paris. All these tertiary trains/busses are more expensive than you think, but the real cost is the time. Its going to be an 8 hour debacle. OR you can spend another 6.5 hours in Paris/London and take a 80 min train from city center to city center. Almost every flight/train comparison is going to be like that; where the plane trip takes FAR longer and puts you far away from where you want to be. You have to do it to get to Ireland but if you stick to mainland Europe, take the train and save yourself the trouble.

+1

I loved taking the trains, don't need to get there an hour early and getting to see the country while you travel is great. I'm very jealous of the train system and metro systems they have there. Makes everything such a breeze.

[drew881]

I agree on Rome >>> Florence. Florence is Italy as we think it is in the US: 800 pizza places and 800 gelato places on ever corner. Its beautiful, but you are being sold what you want, rather than seeing new and unexpected things. Rome is a real city that doesn't care about you. You can hit the major tourist attractions but you also have this real city that exists outside of the tourist life. Not sure how much of that exists in Florence. At least I didn't get a chance to see it.

I agree with the people saying don't mess with Paris. Save it for a separate trip in a different season. Italy/Germany will be a good introduction to Europe, and both are pretty friendly for that first trip.

[M-C-G]

I agree on Rome >>> Florence. Florence is Italy as we think it is in the US: 800 pizza places and 800 gelato places on ever corner. Its beautiful, but you are being sold what you want, rather than seeing new and unexpected things. Rome is a real city that doesn't care about you. You can hit the major tourist attractions but you also have this real city that exists outside of the tourist life. Not sure how much of that exists in Florence. At least I didn't get a chance to see it.

.

Good point.

So much of travel depends on the type of traveler you are and what you are looking to get out of it. I like a mix of seeing things (like the Vatican or Colosseum) and the unexpected stuff you just stumble upon along the way. Finding that cool hole in the wall place or the alley that has a bunch of restaurants the locals eat at. That is a big part of the excitement for me.

[MilHammer]

Love the discussion on this thread, would be cool if we could have one dedicated to travel moving forward.

I do want to say, despite my rec on RyanAir, I agree on trains and buses. When I travel now, I usually fly to a city that I use as a base, and then do a one way flight to the first city that I want to visit. Then my trip consists of bussing and training back to my base location. That being said, if you have only 1 1/2 weeks, and you want to hit relatively far away places on the mainland, its just not worth it. Totally recommend trains/buses if you wanna hit a combo of Gent, Antwerp, Brussels, Amsterdam. But if you plan on going to Italy/Spain, it's time intensive. Trains can cost a few hundred at that distance, and take 2/3 of a day. Although, I agree w HurricaneKid, depends on the type of experience you want. If you just want to kind of float between cities, and have it feel more adventurous, then train everywhere. If you want to maximize your time and see as much as you can, then flights are (usually) the best option if you are covering consider distance.

[thomchatt3rton]

Obviously if youre going a short distance, take a train- esp in scenic areas.

But if you have limited time and want to see, say, Paris AND Barcelona, Ryanair makes great sense.

Although it also depends on your $ situation: high-speed train from PAR to BAR is probably not THAT long of a trip, and youd see beautiful French scenery, but its way more expensive than flying. But if seeing the countryside from a train window appeals to you, thats a consideration. I kinda like it myself.

[Mihai]

Depends what you guys like. In my opinion western Europe is a bit overrated. I'd take this chance to see a few emerging countries while they are still cheap. Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia are very beautiful. Kracow in Poland is worth seeing, Cluj in Transylvania (Romania) as well. A historic trip would be more interesting in these places but if you want flashy lights, clubbind and posh restaurants then go west like the Pet Shop Boys

PS: Portugal is amazing as well and if you like wine then it's paradise!

[MilHammer]

Depends what you guys like. In my opinion western Europe is a bit overrated. I'd take this chance to see a few emerging countries while they are still cheap. Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia are very beautiful. Kracow in Poland is worth seeing, Cluj in Transylvania (Romania) as well. A historic trip would be more interesting in these places but if you want flashy lights, clubbind and posh restaurants then go west like the Pet Shop Boys

PS: Portugal is amazing as well and if you like wine then it's paradise!

+1. I also agree on avoiding tourist traps, especially during the peak season. If you expect you'll have plenty of more opportunities to return to Europe...do Eastern Europe! Every time Ive traveled in Eastern Europe, I've had a much more authentic experience than any of my trips elsewhere. Relatively untouched by tourism, its cheap and it has amazing history. All of EE has a feel that it's just older, overlooked and more...primordial aha. Nothing like visiting the oldest monasteries in Europe in Bulgaria or training through the most dense and vast forests of Romania, Hungary etc. Feels like you've been transported to the 1400s. Travel to the capitals/major cities and you get the attractions of a normal big European city (old churches, palaces, etc) while being able to see the remnants of Communism everywhere. The old memorials, the ugly Soviet bloc apartment buildings that are juxtaposed by splendid Rococo and Vienna Renaissance buildings that you can tell haven't been repainted in over a century. Not nearly as glamorous as Paris, Barcelona, etc but very rewarding if you're open to that type of experience. And the people are often very nice and more friendly to tourists, at least in my case. Go to a pub and you're likely to strike up conversations with locals who are totally open to show you around/give you recommendations on what to see.


Also Portugal is amazing. Algarve, Porto, Lisbon. Great food, wine and coastline.