Trade Thread 2017: Not Once, Not twice, But Thrice!

[BleedGreen1989]

think Bradley and other assets could get you Butler while you keep both Brooklyns, Jaylen and Smart. Just a strong hunch. They're negotiating from a position of weakness and panic, and they have fears or organizational problems motivating them to deal Butler. Not sure what they're afraid of, but it's something behind the scenes. Bradley/Zeller/Young/BOS '18/LAC 1st

Mammoth amount of doubt from me here..

[Andrew McCeltic]

I just smell blood on this.. Would have to look at Bulls' set-up more closely - either it's Hoiberg, or FO anxiety, something coming from Reinsdorf, maybe payroll or accounting strategy, I don't know. Looking at where their pieces are on the board, trading Butler wouldn't be my move. It's theirs.

Bradley's 2/3rds as good as Butler (that last third is important), at less than half the cost. The Bulls have very little in the way of young or rookie-scale talent. A couple of mid to late 1sts, Young, Olynyk/Rozier... Zeller is someone they could re-sign as a cheaper, younger Robin Lopez. Just a hunch.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Anyone remember the Kevin Love trade scenario Pogue told us about? It was something like Jeff Green, Jared Sullinger... Teams don't always think the way fans do, they're balancing short and long term, the fungibility of players, lots of insider variables.

[jrob23]

I genuinely meant that the responses like "if Ainge did that I'd burn myself in front of his office" "Jesus Christ" and "is that you Isaiah Thomas?" were seriously funny...in a good way. Def not going to come to another teams board to mock fans over a simple hypothetical trade question lol.

My bad lol.

But to be fair, your suggestion was not good. I mean, 3rd to 9th is not just Porzingis for Kaminsky, but also Chris Paul for Ike Diogu, Jordan for Otis Thorpe, Embiid for Noah Vonleh...

Might work out for you, but it'd be insane to risk it.

Haha it's cool. But yea in those drafts of course that'd be dumb...I just think that this draft is really deep with players on a similar level to each other. I guess it's all how you value each individual player.

Like Ball is a phenomenal passer, but has his flaws...like a tendency to take crazy Steph type 3's like 2 seconds into the shot clock, and can be lazy on defense sometimes. Smith Jr had that ACL surgery which concerns me but he's still a great all around pg.

But then Frank looks like he can be a freak at the pg position who can guard 3 positions...like a Rondo without the mental issues and a better shot with Giannis type wingspan...almost 7 feet and he's 6'5". And Fox is similar with his playmaking, length, and defense but is extremely quick. If he improves his shot to be more consistent, he'll be nuts.

I'm not trying to convince anyone lol...just trying to help you understand what my thought process was when I mentioned the deal.

I apologize on their behalf. Many aren't aware just how deep and talented the draft class is. They don't see that there's very little separation between players 1 through 10. It doesn't mean #1 isn't elite, it means #10 is as well. Despite not being able to speak intelligently about it, it doesn't stop them from chiming in. This draft class is among the best ever. Going from #1 to #10 is NOT akin to going from Porzingis to Kaminsky. Team A could take DSJ at #3 and Team B could take Fox at #10 and Fox might have the better career because he's just as talented and elite.

You may not know that we view Zizic as our future Center and Yabusele as future PF depth so the need for a plodding center, albeit young and affordable Nurkic just isn't that enticing to some even if it does help address our rebounding issues and give us option going forward. Stevens prefers his bigs to have the ability to stretch the floor and Olynyk and Horford already do that. It'd be nice to get an upgrade to Zeller and Amir but you won't convince many here that Nurkic is, and it gets harder when they try to wrap their heads around trading down in the draft.

My take is that

IT-Rozier
AB-Smart
Crowder-Brown
Horford-Amir
Nurkic-KO

makes us a better team and that deal is worth considering. And then going forward we replace KO and Amir with Yabusele, Zizic and whoever we take at #9 (Leaf, Adebayo, Rabb, Markkanen, Giles if we're going front court) or (Fox, Monk, Diallo if we're looking to prepare for losing AB or IT). We're golden either way but with Nurkic it makes us slightly better this year and gives us a cheap backup for a couple years and a trade chip if we decide not to keep. I said I'd consider it. Not necessarily do it. It at least isn't a stupid idea and I wish people could have a discussion without calling anyone else's suggestions or idea stupid.

You have to consider that fans here are hoping for an even bigger splash that might help put us over the top this season, future considerations like a cheap controllable big be damned...like Noel or Bogut who won't cost us as much as they believe going from #3 to #9 would. And still more prefer a major trade like Butler who for sure could move us into ECF territory easily but might cost BK picks.

[Edug27]

You're not getting Butler without giving up Jaylen plus both Nets picks just to start conversations. Why? Because Chicago is not desperate to trade him right now. Only willing to part with him if someone (mainly the Celtics) prove to be desperate enough to do something foolish.

[Banks2Pierce]

You're not getting Butler without giving up Jaylen plus both Nets picks just to start conversations. Why?

That doesn't start the conversation. It ends it and consummates the deal. Unless they absolutely hate Jaylen in comparison to what they felt about Dunn in June. We balked at the 2nd Nets pick in previous discussions.

The 2017 Nets pick is probably the biggest power asset and trump card in the league right now that anybody would actually consider trading. Things like Towns are better, but Minnesota wouldn't actually consider it is what I'm getting at. No one can beat us if he actually goes to the market and we want him. The trick is getting him and having remaining stuff left over. He's not KG so you still need your lotto tickets remaining in hand.

[Disinformation]

I think Bradley and other assets could get you Butler - while you keep both Brooklyns, Jaylen and Smart. Just a strong hunch. They're negotiating from a position of weakness and panic, and they have fears or organizational problems motivating them to deal Butler. Not sure what they're afraid of, but it's something behind the scenes. Bradley/Zeller/Young/BOS '18/LAC 1st

You're not getting Butler without giving up Jaylen plus both Nets picks just to start conversations. Why? Because Chicago is not desperate to trade him right now. Only willing to part with him if someone (mainly the Celtics) prove to be desperate enough to do something foolish.

I love this board sometimes.

[Edug27]

I think Bradley and other assets could get you Butler - while you keep both Brooklyns, Jaylen and Smart. Just a strong hunch. They're negotiating from a position of weakness and panic, and they have fears or organizational problems motivating them to deal Butler. Not sure what they're afraid of, but it's something behind the scenes. Bradley/Zeller/Young/BOS '18/LAC 1st

You're not getting Butler without giving up Jaylen plus both Nets picks just to start conversations. Why? Because Chicago is not desperate to trade him right now. Only willing to part with him if someone (mainly the Celtics) prove to be desperate enough to do something foolish.

I love this board sometimes.

As do I. Good thing I'm here to correct those who need it

[CelticFaninLBC]

How about this out of the box 2 step trade idea. Here me out.

Trade #1:

Bradley, KO, Young, 2017 Minny 2nd to Minny for Dieng, Muhammad, Minny unprotected 2017 1st.

Trade #2:

Crowder, Brown, Zeller, 2017 Minny 1st, BK18, Memphis 1st to Chicago for Butler & McDermott

I like adding in Minnesota, but wouldn't give Chicago BKN 2018 too. Brown, Crowder & MN 2017 is plenty. They aren't trading LeBron.

So, Bradley, KO, Young, 2017 MIN 2nd, Crowder, Brown, Zeller, unprotected 2017 MIN 1st, BKN 18, MEM '19 1st out - Butler, Mcdermott, Dieng, Muhammad in?

Dude that's a bad trade. You're letting Dieng's meeting of a short-term need skew how you're evaluating the whole thing.

I don't want Dieng and don't want to give up BKN2018. However, I'm pretty sure Chicago will insist on BKN 2017 & Crowder, or not do a trade... I'd do something like this, and Minnesota would have to give up more...

Boston gets - Butler & Gibson
Boston deals - Crowder, Bradley, Olynyk, Zeller, BKN2017

MN gets - Bradley, & Olynyk
MN deals - LaVine & Tyus Jones

Chicago gets - BKN2017, Crowder, LaVine, Zeller & Tyus Jones
Chicago deals - Butler & Gibson

Chicago gets 2 starters and 25% shot at Fultz. Boston gets a star, adds some interior toughness with Gibson, and maintain cap space. Minnesota gets a veteran in AB and Olynyk should pair well with Towns.

[Edug27]

You're not getting Butler without giving up Jaylen plus both Nets picks just to start conversations. Why?

That doesn't start the conversation. It ends it and consummates the deal. Unless they absolutely hate Jaylen in comparison to what they felt about Dunn in June. We balked at the 2nd Nets pick in previous discussions.

The 2017 Nets pick is probably the biggest power asset and trump card in the league right now that anybody would actually consider trading. Things like Towns are better, but Minnesota wouldn't actually consider it is what I'm getting at. No one can beat us if he actually goes to the market and we want him. The trick is getting him and having remaining stuff left over. He's not KG so you still need your lotto tickets remaining in hand.

Nope. I don't even think Chicago accepts that deal until after the lottery drawing and that 2017 pick turns out to by top 2-3. At that point, they'll probably still insist we throw in Crowder or Smart.

I don't think we are accurately understanding where Chicago stands here. It's not the same as the Kevin Love situation. The Love trade rumors went on for long enough, until Minny went with the best offer available because of Love's deal. Lebron going to Cleveland made it perfect timing, otherwise Flip is probably stuck taking whatever nonsense Danny offered. Chicago isn't at that point yet. They are in no rush to trade Butler. They are not looking for "best offer available" right now. They are looking for a team willing to give them a ridiculous offer. A knock it out of the park type of deal. This is why a deal will not get done before the deadline. Too many years left on Butlers deal for them to panic.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Why is Butler on or near the market at all? Why are the Bulls even entertaining the idea of trading him?

[CelticFaninLBC]

I think Bradley and other assets could get you Butler - while you keep both Brooklyns, Jaylen and Smart. Just a strong hunch. They're negotiating from a position of weakness and panic, and they have fears or organizational problems motivating them to deal Butler. Not sure what they're afraid of, but it's something behind the scenes. Bradley/Zeller/Young/BOS '18/LAC 1st

I believe Zach Lowe, and Chicago is seeing if they can get the BKN 2017 pick. They aren't desperate.

[Banks2Pierce]

I don't think we are accurately understanding where Chicago stands here. It's not the same as the Kevin Love situation. The Love trade rumors went on for long enough, until Minny went with the best offer available because of Love's deal. Lebron going to Cleveland made it perfect timing, otherwise Flip is probably stuck taking whatever nonsense Danny offered. Chicago isn't at that point yet. They are in no rush to trade Butler. They are not looking for "best offer available" right now. They are looking for a team willing to give them a ridiculous offer. A knock it out of the park type of deal. This is why a deal will not get done before the deadline. Too many years left on Butlers deal for them to panic.

I agree with what you are saying as far as Butler having more value than Love, but they were already 95% of the way to a deal with us this summer. It's not plucked out of thin air. That Nets pick is looking like a floor of 5 and in a much stronger draft. I don't want to include it(thus probably not being able to acquire him) so this is just to disagree with you that that is where the negotiations have to start for them to pick up the phone.

[ddb]

How about this out of the box 2 step trade idea. Here me out.

Trade #1:

Bradley, KO, Young, 2017 Minny 2nd to Minny for Dieng, Muhammad, Minny unprotected 2017 1st.

Trade #2:

Crowder, Brown, Zeller, 2017 Minny 1st, BK18, Memphis 1st to Chicago for Butler & McDermott

I like adding in Minnesota, but wouldn't give Chicago BKN 2018 too. Brown, Crowder & MN 2017 is plenty. They aren't trading LeBron.

So, Bradley, KO, Young, 2017 MIN 2nd, Crowder, Brown, Zeller, unprotected 2017 MIN 1st, BKN 18, MEM '19 1st out - Butler, Mcdermott, Dieng, Muhammad in?

Dude that's a bad trade. You're letting Dieng's meeting of a short-term need skew how you're evaluating the whole thing.

No we keep BK 17 in this scenario. And also have a max salary spot, Zizic, Yabusele

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[Edug27]

I don't think we are accurately understanding where Chicago stands here. It's not the same as the Kevin Love situation. The Love trade rumors went on for long enough, until Minny went with the best offer available because of Love's deal. Lebron going to Cleveland made it perfect timing, otherwise Flip is probably stuck taking whatever nonsense Danny offered. Chicago isn't at that point yet. They are in no rush to trade Butler. They are not looking for "best offer available" right now. They are looking for a team willing to give them a ridiculous offer. A knock it out of the park type of deal. This is why a deal will not get done before the deadline. Too many years left on Butlers deal for them to panic.

I agree with what you are saying as far as Butler having more value than Love, but they were already 95% of the way to a deal with us this summer. It's not plucked out of thin air. That Nets pick is looking like a floor of 5 and in a much stronger draft. I don't want to include it(thus probably not being able to acquire him) so this is just to disagree with you that that is where the negotiations have to start for them to pick up the phone.

95% is a tough number, I'd argue it was a lot less than that, but either way... The Bulls were asking for too much, and wouldn't budge because they don't need to. They know they can keep revisiting the trade until the Celtics, or any other team, gives in... Again, he has 2 years left on that deal after this season. They'd be crazy to move him without a guaranteed top draft pick. If Boston wins the lottery, or gets top 2, then Chicago will be in the same position they were last summer... asking for that pick, plus more... The ball is in Danny's court.

[CelticFaninLBC]

You're not getting Butler without giving up Jaylen plus both Nets picks just to start conversations. Why? Because Chicago is not desperate to trade him right now. Only willing to part with him if someone (mainly the Celtics) prove to be desperate enough to do something foolish.

That's an unprecedented trade, and Chicago should realize that Ainge isn't an idiot. Would be pretty dumb to dangle Butler, if that's what they're asking.

[jfs1000d]

I want Butler. Hate that it could cost Bradley. But, both are 2 guards. Could we trade Crowder for Butler and put Jimmy at the 3? That would be the question.


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[CelticFaninLBC]

Why is Butler on or near the market at all? Why are the Bulls even entertaining the idea of trading him?

They probably like the top 5 guys in this draft, and Butler's only signed for 2 more years, with nothing around him.

[Banks2Pierce]

I want Butler. Hate that it could cost Bradley. But, both are 2 guards. Could we trade Crowder for Butler and put Jimmy at the 3? That would be the question.

Yes, but why would you want to keep Bradley over Crowder? I think Crowder's better, more versatile, and has the additional years.

[Disinformation]

I think Bradley and other assets could get you Butler - while you keep both Brooklyns, Jaylen and Smart. Just a strong hunch. They're negotiating from a position of weakness and panic, and they have fears or organizational problems motivating them to deal Butler. Not sure what they're afraid of, but it's something behind the scenes. Bradley/Zeller/Young/BOS '18/LAC 1st

You're not getting Butler without giving up Jaylen plus both Nets picks just to start conversations. Why? Because Chicago is not desperate to trade him right now. Only willing to part with him if someone (mainly the Celtics) prove to be desperate enough to do something foolish.

I love this board sometimes.

As do I. Good thing I'm here to correct those who need it

Blind leading the blind, eh? I gotcha.